An admin should take many things in consideration when banning someone:
But i see trolls and intentional tks all the time. And they get away with it, like that guy achilles that trolled and tked for months without getting caught.
An admin should take many things in consideration when banning someone: k/d ratio, if that is the first mistake, even observing that player for some time (and ban him after he tked 3 palyers for example), etc.
Murmillus did wrong, no doubt about that. He got banned by the book, no doubt about that. But is that the right choice? Direct ban? While trolls do what they like?
And remember Melas and Toon. They have some fun occupation: kicking archers of the walls until that poor archer gets angry and draws melee weapon. At that point they kill the archer and qq about beeing attacked. Seen them doing that on a few occasions.
Personal advice: start using fraps.
I got pollbanned last night on siege server for something similar: Lord_halzor or something wounds some players on my team. He had some negative score, can't remember exactly how negative.
At some point he kills my horse with a spear. I ignore him and he stabs me in the back. Still ignoring him when an arrow kills him. Next life he's after me. Attacks my horse again, i just block when another teammate kills him. Next round he's again after me... i smash his shield but let him live. He backstabs me again and i kill him with one swing of my mighty axe. And he banpolls me, and an amazig ban hits me. Unfortunately i didn't have fraps installed but now i do.
what the hell does KDR have to do with bans? so your saying if you have a good kdr you should be punished less?
If someone tries to TK me I will defend myself. You dont know how many other victims there might be after you if you just sit back and fraps.
Ruthless and immediate kicks, I have nothing against that. But banning without a kick warning before is just plain too much. As long as the punished player doesn't retaliate, the admin job is done. So a kick is enough in 99% of the time.
Why? Is 'You can't play on this particular server for one hour' some extreme measure? (Frankly, a player who feels that way could probably use the hour break.)
The first goal of admins to protect the rule-abiding players from bad apples, not to gently coax each hot-headed individual player to follow the rules in the most gentle possible way.
Anyway, what's more likely to dissuade a player from intentional team-attacking: 'Oh no, I might have to reconnect if an admin catches and kicks me!' or 'I might be banned for an hour'? It's like drunk driving. When someone gets caught, it's quite unlikely it was their first time doing it. If you punish on the assumption that the only time they've ever done it just happens to be this time they've been caught, the consequences aren't strong enough to serve as a deterrent. "Oh dear, about one out of ten times that I intentionally team-attack, an admin will see me and I'll get kicked?? Lol whatever."
But maybe more importantly, like I said before: If the admin just immediately bans a player they see intentionally team-attacking, then they can get right back to watching everyone else. If they take the time to listen to a bunch of whine stories about 'who started it', they're probably going to miss the next person doing it.
I like how people are discussing this like it will change anything about the rules or how we enforce them.
Cool story, would read again.
And all you show, Murmillus, is that you're butthurt as shit over a simple ban.
Murmillus, if you had a drop of rationality in that lump you call a head, you would've slapped yourself hard, apologised and gone on with your life(?).
If you have problem with admin that simply means you did something wrong.
Revenge tk is not allowed, if you did it and get caught you got to face the consequences.
I don't say it's wrong, i don't say it's fair, i just say it's the rules.
This is what it boils down to when you've run out of rational argument, light trolling. Yet you're an admin, showing everyone it's ok to wind up other players, other members of this community for lulz to lure them into a trap in which they can be incriminated, sure is a great example you're setting this community.
As a member of the Troll Clan™, I feel it is my civic duty to respond.Technically he did not Teamkill, he was just trying to team kill and was banned while in the proccess of his attempt. Regardless, teamwounding carries the same penalties.
I don't know you are Murmillus, I have never seen you before in game. I don't know Nuffen nor do I play on the servers gernerally, that Nuffen admins. I have no side in this whatever this is suppose to be exactly.
You admit to intentionally teamkilling someone. You were watched and observed by an admin for teamkilling someone. The rules clearly state no teamkilling for any reason, even revenge.
You deserved the ban. It's very simple. Quit crying about it. This entire thread is stupid and pointless.(click to show/hide)
What arguement do I need to present?
Here is the thing:
This thread is a bunch of players discussing with a bunch of other players on the subject of the rules and how they are enforced. To be perfectly blunt, this will change nothing as non of you have anything to do with the rules. If this was presented to the people who are actually in charge of the rules then this might actually change something, but this is just some thread in General Discussion about a bunch of players saying "this rule makes sense, this one does not, this is ab00ze and this should never happen yadda yadda yadda." Okay... So?
Last I checked, this is not a democracy, so if you get a couple dozen players out of the 12K+ who play this game to say "this needs to be changed" then nothing will happen, just like the vast majority of the "game suggestion" threads in the suggestions forum.
If you want something official changed, go to the administration, as your peers don't have jack-diddly-shit to do with the rules so them agreeing or disagreeing with you is pretty much worthless.
EDIT:
For clarity, if this was talking about some Game Admin Abuse then yes this thread might have merit, but the problem is that Nuffen did not act out of norm, he did what has been going on for months and months and months on what happens when two team mates are attacking each other. They both were punished.
The problem is that you want to change "standard operating procedure" and not "this Game Admin did something unusual." Nuffen did what other Game Admins have done countless times, and the rules do support his decisions. If you want to change the actual rules and procedures, expect a very steep uphill battle with Administration. After all, they like the current rules enough to have made them official, kinda says something.
Solution:
Use fraps and make a ban thread
Sorry, I really am not seeing why there is so much drama :rolleyes:.Rationale dosnt work on the internet.
If you had not had a huge rant and started crying about it, you could have simply made a nice little apology and stated you would not do it again. Hell, explain the situation in a calm manner and what actually brought it all on. Pretty sure you would have just got unbanned and a slap on the wrist. They may be a bit kick/ban happy sometimes but they usually relent if someone makes a genuine apology.
So yeah, you just shot yourself in the foot.
Sorry, I really am not seeing why there is so much drama :rolleyes:.
If you had not had a huge rant and started crying about it, you could have simply made a nice little apology and stated you would not do it again. Hell, explain the situation in a calm manner and what actually brought it all on. Pretty sure you would have just got unbanned and a slap on the wrist. They may be a bit kick/ban happy sometimes but they usually relent if someone makes a genuine apology.
So yeah, you just shot yourself in the foot.
Dude, this shit is old. OLD NEWS.
I loved being able to utterly destroy noobs and teamwounders on my team who so much as looked at my horse funny in spawn, but sadly those glorious days are gone. It's been at LEAST 9 months since this anti-tkrevenge rule was put in place, and there's been dozens of people in your exact situation. I can't really take your outrage seriously when you knew very well what you were doing was against the rules.
So what made you decide to post it in general talk instead of the unban forum?
Because the punishment given was dis-proportionate to my offence, because I had to highlight that yet again nuffen has done such a thing, and because I've already been a victim of nuffens form of justice, and despite all that I then had to get down on my knees and apologise to the very same admin. I would apologise for team-wounding, and attacking a horse a team-mate had intention of using, but that's all I have to apologise for, and all I should have been punished for.
Yes, you're accusing me of kicking you for some reason half a year ago or something. I dont even know what it was about, as Ive moved on. (recommended!). Back there, a kick was enough for you to vote for me to lose my admin powers (you say), but this time you think a kick is correct.
So
Warning - WRONG
Kick - WRONG
Ban - WRONG
What do you want me to do next time someone teamwound? hug em?
Yes, you're accusing me of kicking you for some reason half a year ago or something. I dont even know what it was about, as Ive moved on. (recommended!). Back there, a kick was enough for you to vote for me to lose my admin powers (you say), but this time you think a kick is correct.
So
Warning - WRONG
Kick - WRONG
Ban - WRONG
What do you want me to do next time someone teamwound? hug em?
Well in fairness again to myself, the horse he whistled over was that of an enemies, he hadn't even sat on the horse before I started attacking it, so it's not like I was targeting his character with revenge at that point.
Comments like these mean I'm incorrect?
No.
They simply show you don't like me, and you're supporting people you do like.
Doesn't justify my ban.
Why? Is 'You can't play on this particular server for one hour' some extreme measure? (Frankly, a player who feels that way could probably use the hour break.)
The first goal of admins to protect the rule-abiding players from bad apples, not to gently coax each hot-headed individual player to follow the rules in the most gentle possible way.
Anyway, what's more likely to dissuade a player from intentional team-attacking: 'Oh no, I might have to reconnect if an admin catches and kicks me!' or 'I might be banned for an hour'? It's like drunk driving. When someone gets caught, it's quite unlikely it was their first time doing it. If you punish on the assumption that the only time they've ever done it just happens to be this time they've been caught, the consequences aren't strong enough to serve as a deterrent. "Oh dear, about one out of ten times that I intentionally team-attack, an admin will see me and I'll get kicked?? Lol whatever."
But maybe more importantly, like I said before: If the admin just immediately bans a player they see intentionally team-attacking, then they can get right back to watching everyone else. If they take the time to listen to a bunch of whine stories about 'who started it', they're probably going to miss the next person doing it.
I like bunnies.I don't like bunnies nao :(