cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Jago on January 19, 2011, 03:06:10 pm

Title: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Jago on January 19, 2011, 03:06:10 pm
Firstly, I suggest a smoke bomb, not something that damages people. It is a weapon to be used defensively and for misdirection. Not for offensive purposes.

Secondly, I know the firebomb already makes some smoke and I don't believe it burns anything.

Thirdly, reduce the weight of the smokebomb, aka firebomb, from 62 to 3.

Fourthly, increase the quantity from 1 to 2.

Fithly, increase the quantity of smoke slightly and the length of time it smokes. 4 second duration, 2 meter cube roughly.
(To see how minimal the amount of smoke is, try the firebomb)

Sixthly, must not be wearing armor heavier than lamellar to use.

Seventhly, increase cost from 900 to 6256.

Eightly, increase the PT requirement from 1 to 2.

Ninethly, cannot be used on horseback.

Tenthly, cannot be used during rain (don't know if this is possible, if it is, rain could also reduce the effectiveness of bows and xbows too).
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Welcome_To_Hell on January 19, 2011, 03:11:15 pm
Yes!

This will allow us to make perfect troll builds.

12 Smokebombs tossed from a courser lagging everybody out and covering the whole place in smoke making the clusterfuck even worse.

Would be even better on siege. Spam construction sites and smokebombs at the seige tower assault point, for awesome laggfest clusterfuck
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Jago on January 19, 2011, 03:46:07 pm
 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: IR_Kuoin on January 19, 2011, 03:58:17 pm
He got you there  :lol:
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Jago on January 19, 2011, 04:04:48 pm
His language and sarcasm was insulting. He didn't address any of my points. He did not try to modify anything to make it work. In the end he contributed nothing but trolling to the thread, hence my eye roll. Now lets move on to an actual discussion please.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Bothersome_Aldryk on January 19, 2011, 04:06:31 pm
I note that you haven't addressed the potential for massive trolling inherent in the item.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Jago on January 19, 2011, 04:15:19 pm
Short duration, cost, and low quantity addresses the spamming of it.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Babelfish on January 19, 2011, 04:37:42 pm
What about increase the cost to say 10,000 and add a PT requirement on it. And keep the quantity on 1. 

Siege would still be a problem tho, since you dont pay each time you die but at the end of the round.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Jago on January 19, 2011, 04:43:51 pm
The purpose of the smoke is simply to make it so the ninja can escape. Duration need only be three to five seconds.

Ill meet you half way in your suggestions Babelfish: cost 6256, quantity 2.  PT requirement is a good idea as well. PT 4 sound ok?

Keep in mind, that for each 2 smokebombs that are carried, is one inventory slot. The requirement to have light armor also limits the amount of people that will use the smokebomb.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Jago on January 19, 2011, 04:52:30 pm
Also added, Cannot be Used on Horseback.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Golradir on January 19, 2011, 05:12:18 pm
if its pd3 its fine by me  :mrgreen: we need this :)
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Torp on January 19, 2011, 05:56:29 pm
okay i have a couple of ideas/suggestion/changes.

First of all, i dont like the idea of throing requirement for tossing a smoke grenade... it's not like it's hard to hit the right place, just drop it in front of you. - 1 pt requirement tops.

second, i dont think anyone would use it to escape, ninjas have light armor and 7-9 athletics - smoke not needed.
Instead it should smoke a little more and then be used when you have sneaked behind a group of archers, thyen you would be able to toss a smoke bomb so they cant see you, and you could slay them, because they wouldnt be able to hit you.

third, i think weight 3 is too heavy - you cant ninja people when you carry heavy items! weight 1-1,5 would be better.

fourth, i only think the amount should be 1.

fifth, i think the way to make people think before using them should be a high price. 10.000-15.000 imo.

and that's it i guess
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Memento_Mori on January 19, 2011, 06:12:36 pm
okay i have a couple of ideas/suggestion/changes.

First of all, i dont like the idea of throing requirement for tossing a smoke grenade... it's not like it's hard to hit the right place, just drop it in front of you. - 1 pt requirement tops.

second, i dont think anyone would use it to escape, ninjas have light armor and 7-9 athletics - smoke not needed.
Instead it should smoke a little more and then be used when you have sneaked behind a group of archers, thyen you would be able to toss a smoke bomb so they cant see you, and you could slay them, because they wouldnt be able to hit you.

third, i think weight 3 is too heavy - you cant ninja people when you carry heavy items! weight 1-1,5 would be better.

fourth, i only think the amount should be 1.

fifth, i think the way to make people think before using them should be a high price. 10.000-15.000 imo.

and that's it i guess


I like all of what you said except the price, add that to my 25k total I already have and I would be losing money simply because I wanted to use a smoke bomb once in a round. Of course that makes sense balance wise so not everyone is spamming these fun little smoke bombs but it's still a little much.. maybe 8.000 ? or 7.000 ? for ONE, of course. That's still about 300+ for upkeep, I think that would keep people from over using them but still allow people who wanted to use them as a secret gadget every map to use them most of the time.

I wouldn't mind 10k or 15k either, just means I wouldn't be able to use them as often as I'd like lol which is probably a good thing. :P
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: EponiCo on January 19, 2011, 06:23:19 pm
As a katana user you might not be aware - but some of us try to block and that's kind of hard when you can't see anything because of all the smoke.  :twisted:
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Braeden on January 19, 2011, 06:39:16 pm
"Oh gosh darn, it sure is annoying how these smokebombs are obstructing my vision, Archer Ted."

"Silly Archer Jake, just fix your graphics so they don't show up.  Like everyone with a bad computer has probably already done."

"Gee Archer Ted, thanks!  Now I can shoot through the smoke with impunity!"
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: IR_Kuoin on January 19, 2011, 07:04:05 pm
A smokeBomb could be nice but then the makers (modders) have to use the mm smoke patch soo they can get unlaggy smoke..and those who lagg....Get a better coumputer :lol:
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: AdNecrias on January 20, 2011, 01:34:00 am
"Oh gosh darn, it sure is annoying how these smokebombs are obstructing my vision, Archer Ted."

"Silly Archer Jake, just fix your graphics so they don't show up.  Like everyone with a bad computer has probably already done."

"Gee Archer Ted, thanks!  Now I can shoot through the smoke with impunity!"

God damn it, I can't live without my shine shine.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Jago on January 20, 2011, 03:12:37 pm
*Lowered throw requirement
*Added specification of rough size of effect and duration

The smokebomb is for defense and misdirection only, it is not a weapon to be used offensively.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Jago on January 20, 2011, 03:15:46 pm
*Added cannot be used during rain.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Ishar on January 20, 2011, 03:24:25 pm
tl;dr: Hell no!
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Torp on January 20, 2011, 04:08:02 pm
As a katana user you might not be aware - but some of us try to block and that's kind of hard when you can't see anything because of all the smoke.  :twisted:

its not like katanas have speed 200, the only weapons katanas can outspam are flamberges and slow 1h/shielders...

But i know that you have a hard time blocking in smoke, which is the whole idea. What should it be good for if it didnt affect anyone? it makes the user stronger by weakening his enemy. I can come, throw a bomb, attack twice with my katana and get out unseen. That's the point.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Roh_ on January 20, 2011, 05:31:29 pm
No, just no. I could see it now. Have three guys lob out smoke. Have cav in waiting. They charge through without even having a chance at seeing the tank on legs coming.. No. Just no. I don't want that kind of trauma.  :cry:
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Jago on January 20, 2011, 06:45:28 pm
Haha, scared of a slightly more complicated game.

It would make things more fun. Id have some other ninja tool other than a katana and shurikens. After smokebomb, next on the list is caltrips. Can't wait to read the whines when I suggest that one.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: UrLukur on January 20, 2011, 07:20:29 pm
A smokeBomb could be nice but then the makers (modders) have to use the mm smoke patch soo they can get unlaggy smoke..and those who lagg....Get a better coumputer :lol:

Fuck you, i'm not going to buy new rig anytime soon as there are no cool games that require better rig atm. ATM cRPG is totally playable, smoke bombs would make it laggy as hell, server side lags are enough.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: EponiCo on January 20, 2011, 07:31:58 pm
But i know that you have a hard time blocking in smoke, which is the whole idea. What should it be good for if it didnt affect anyone? it makes the user stronger by weakening his enemy. I can come, throw a bomb, attack twice with my katana and get out unseen. That's the point.

And that's exactly why I wouldn't want it. Every newbie would have one to make fights purely random.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: justme on January 20, 2011, 07:34:00 pm
no
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: DesertEagle on January 20, 2011, 07:42:57 pm
Quote
Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Yeah, and a flashbang would be cool too  :lol:
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Waffle on January 20, 2011, 07:46:40 pm
wouldnt work people would just turn off there particle filter thingy and it would effect them, caltrops is a nice idea though  :D
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Oberyn on January 20, 2011, 08:22:00 pm
Sure, let's implement a bunch of gimmicky bullshit. How about giving battle ale to vikings, makes them go berserk, increases agility and strength but takes off like half health. Then you'll have tincans using smokebomb, then ale, because obviously so-called rp equipment will be used by everyone and their mother anyways. What makes you think only"ninjas" would use this?
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Golradir on January 20, 2011, 08:28:40 pm
his reasoning is to strong, we cannot counter it  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Memento_Mori on January 20, 2011, 08:37:21 pm
Sure, let's implement a bunch of gimmicky bullshit. How about giving battle ale to vikings, makes them go berserk, increases agility and strength but takes off like half health. Then you'll have tincans using smokebomb, then ale, because obviously so-called rp equipment will be used by everyone and their mother anyways. What makes you think only"ninjas" would use this?

If the vikings get this ALE It should turn off banners on friendlies so you have no idea who is enemy or ally.
I know you're not serious lol :P

& to everyone wanting smokebombs, just use the firebomb, it does basically what you want a smokebomb to do. Puffs out some smoke and distracts people for half a second before they're like "okay then, back to clicking the left mouse button as fast as possible and holding the W key down"
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Braeden on January 20, 2011, 08:38:53 pm
My point was less about lag and more that these wouldn't affect half the game's users: those who already have the option turned off, and those who aren't using them and thus turn the option off.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Jago on January 20, 2011, 09:06:58 pm
I don't understand why begging the question is the most popular logical fallacy on the internet, but it is annoying.

The state that the smokebomb is useless because people just turn off particle effects.  Then moving on to the conclusion that because the smokebomb is useless, no point in having it. You did not prove your point but used it to help strengthen your argument.

The point that it is overpowered is another begging the question fallacy.

The argument that it would lag peoples computers is simply a hasty generalization. What sample size are you using? You and your yes men on teamspeak? Look at the average gaming computer, it can easily run simple particle effects.

The viking ale point is an example of a strawman argument. "Because this obviously overpowered viking item shouldnt be implimented, the ninja item that is not over powered should not be implimented either." Obviously items implimented for roleplaying would make this a better Computer Roleplaying Game, as long as they are balanced.

Personally i think all this propaganda against a balanced smokebomb have been generated by the elite, anti-ninja media.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Vrael on January 20, 2011, 09:53:39 pm
I like your suggestions, Jago.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Jago on January 21, 2011, 09:17:41 pm
Thank you Vrael.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Whalen207 on January 21, 2011, 09:37:15 pm
Smoke entities should be no more than 5 "puff-like" clouds, if you'd care to create the entity's model yourself. I like the high price and low duration, but PT should not be required. Also the quantity should be one.

On a side note it'd be difficult and outright stupid to hardcode the smoke bombs to only be used with Lamellar- armor. Why can't plated people use smoke bombs, eh? This is mount and BLADE, not mount and NINJA.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Braeden on January 21, 2011, 09:38:22 pm
Quote
The state that the smokebomb is useless because people just turn off particle effects.  Then moving on to the conclusion that because the smokebomb is useless, no point in having it. You did not prove your point but used it to help strengthen your argument.

If "it would be useless" isn't a good reason not to add things, then I really don't know what is.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Jago on January 21, 2011, 11:20:18 pm
If "it would be useless" isn't a good reason not to add things, then I really don't know what is.

You missed the point. It has not been proven that a smokebomb would be useless. It was merely stated that it was useless because of a hasty generalization. Pure propaganda.

Also, there are lots of useless items that are in cRPG, dresses, head clothes, peasant weapons. The smokebomb is about aesthetics mostly.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Jago on January 21, 2011, 11:21:37 pm
Smoke entities should be no more than 5 "puff-like" clouds, if you'd care to create the entity's model yourself. I like the high price and low duration, but PT should not be required. Also the quantity should be one.

On a side note it'd be difficult and outright stupid to hardcode the smoke bombs to only be used with Lamellar- armor. Why can't plated people use smoke bombs, eh? This is mount and BLADE, not mount and NINJA.

The point is to limit the amount of people that would use it so that it is not a commonly used item.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Thomek on January 22, 2011, 01:07:06 am
hehe.. nice idea Jago.

Don't think it should be restricted to Ninjas though. And it seems that mm mod has made it work without lags.

 
Sure, let's implement a bunch of gimmicky bullshit. How about giving battle ale to vikings, makes them go berserk, increases agility and strength but takes off like half health. Then you'll have tincans using smokebomb, then ale, because obviously so-called rp equipment will be used by everyone and their mother anyways. What makes you think only"ninjas" would use this?

Mushroom that boosts your performance and removes friend/foe tags? As well as screw up your screen? Great idea if you ask me!

On another more serious note. I think smoke bombs should be tested. If it doesn't work, or becomes abused, or lowers performance too much; simply remove it. Warriors in all times, even today sometimes kicked up sand to the enemies face. (I've read my comix) Smoke as cover has been used for hundreds of years. (Setting fire to fields etc..) Now and they say that Ninjas actually used such weapons.. But I dunno. I think it would simply introduce an interesting and new tactical element. I think it would be awesome to see cav setting up a smoke screen to charge through! Or to confuse enemies mid-combat with a smoke bomb.. :-D

Historical accuracy was thrown out the window a long time ago anyway. cRPG to me is simply a kind of Valhalla, for warriors of all kinds through history.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: ViiKOLD on January 22, 2011, 01:47:07 am
In MM mod even a single musket smoke can obscure your vision and I didn't saw any performance issues when 150+ played and used muskets extensively.
Even if it can be switched off in settings it's still funny feature, why not add it.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Casimir on January 22, 2011, 02:05:01 am
Just no.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Jago on January 22, 2011, 06:30:30 pm
Ok, some guy Casimar doesn't like it, lets call the whole thing off now.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: AdNecrias on January 22, 2011, 06:52:44 pm
Ok, some guy Casimar doesn't like it, lets call the whole thing off now.

What, after THE Casimir said no you're going on? Brave but foolish, ninja. He who fights the greater power shall not have a pleasant end.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Aylgifia_bouli on January 23, 2011, 12:52:44 pm
+1 braeden ,
the idea of smoke is good , but once you've removed "particle systems" , it's as if you guys were throwing harmless stones
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Radix on January 23, 2011, 01:02:41 pm
is M&B still about medieval era?? or it evolved into japanese kind of shit with flying ninjas and smoke bombs?? to be honset smoke bomb seems like something from hollywood or anime. Cant image anyone using that on the battlefield, especialy on the medieval battlefield.
Just imagine clash of heavy armoured guys with serious scary weapons and then in the middle of them ninja appears, puff uses smoke, wind blows and all smoke is gone, ninja gets raped.
Title: Re: Smokebomb - A new ninja weapon please
Post by: Casimir on January 23, 2011, 01:13:29 pm
This is a rediculious idea. Your suggestion for implimenting something that obly ninjas can use is pathetic. Since when has chadz wanted to force people to use certain playstyles... Its about making your character how you want and using what you want.

Secondly there is already more than enough "ninja" equipment in this mod add to that shitty animie hair any emmersion that someone may have once felt in this game is long gone...  When will u guys be satisfied there are atleast 3 obviously "ninja" swords, 3 "ninja" throwing weapons and you guys have pretty much hijaked lamellar armour from any other play style.

My final point is that Ninjas were spies, assassins and saboteurs. Not warriors. They would shit their little robest on the battle field before being crushed.

Im out.



Also just no. (Btw i speak not just for my self but i imagine a vast majority of the community)