cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Skurcey on July 28, 2011, 05:42:02 pm

Title: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Skurcey on July 28, 2011, 05:42:02 pm
with last archery nerf, when you play an archer and are forced to use a low end armor, no hand armor and no helmet.
You are one shotted by crossbow, by cavalery and by crossbow. Even the javelin is faster than an arrow, the Rus bow is shooting at the same speed than the horn bow.
The cross bow, useable without skill point (well one or two weapon master) do more damage, has pierce damage, and the projectile is much faster, where the archer need to invest nearly all is point in archery, and 6 points in power draw.
I'm really tired that the dev listen to the cry baby that yell for a nerf, because they cant invest 3 skill points in shield.

History of patches:
-nerfed power draw
-nerfed accurancy
-nerfed big armors
-nerfed weight (so archer doesnt run from the big plate guy that one shot him, i was told)
-nerfed type of damage
-nerfed projectile speed

What s the next step?

/me goes on another game

Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Christo on July 28, 2011, 05:43:54 pm
What s the next step?

(click to show/hide)

Joking aside, I made an STF archer alt, it wasn't THAT unplayable, but it feelt kinda limited though.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: chadz on July 28, 2011, 05:44:09 pm
Good thing you are not whining.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Tears of Destiny on July 28, 2011, 05:44:20 pm
Everytime something gets too buffed or too nerfed, I blame the community for making fail biased threads or posts and creating messes...

We do get what we ask for... Scary when you think about it...

But at the end of the day, it gives me more fun then any other mod for Warband.

Also... Original post is rather Ironic...
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Prpavi on July 28, 2011, 05:46:24 pm

/me goes on another game


and ater you leave we all give allot of fuck.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Keshian on July 28, 2011, 05:48:00 pm
To be frank, the normal battle server archers do need a slight buff because of the dynamics of the goals (you have limited time!) and usually the maps (at leat on NA) are town based which hurts archers.

But on Strategus its becoeming pretty obvious that archers still are oevrly powerful in a  situation where there is NO TIME LIMIT (attackers should only have an hour before having to regroup and try attacking again) and the only real objective in very wide open maps is to kill the most tags.  So the teams that are doing best are the ones that are 40-60% xbowers and archers, which is kind of boring but highly effective.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Skurcey on July 28, 2011, 05:53:08 pm
Good thing you are not whining.

At least i dont ask you to nerf other people because they kill me
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Razzen on July 28, 2011, 05:55:38 pm
To be frank, the normal battle server archers do need a slight buff because of the dynamics of the goals (you have limited time!) and usually the maps (at leat on NA) are town based which hurts archers.

But on Strategus its becoeming pretty obvious that archers still are oevrly powerful in a  situation where there is NO TIME LIMIT (attackers should only have an hour before having to regroup and try attacking again) and the only real objective in very wide open maps is to kill the most tags.  So the teams that are doing best are the ones that are 40-60% xbowers and archers, which is kind of boring but highly effective.


Yeah I mean archers should defitenely be given more time on battle servers so they can run for a longer time and/or camp for longer so the others can get shot all the time, because thats the real fun in the game! Btw I have an archer alt that I have been playing on for about 6 months, I gotta say that I think that archers are fine, except that the speed is a bit stupid, in damage then I think they are still good, I 2-3 shot people alot on my archer when his not even level 30.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: roymorrison on July 28, 2011, 05:56:57 pm
/me goes on another game

Can I have your stuff?
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: chadz on July 28, 2011, 05:57:05 pm
At least i dont ask you to nerf other people because they kill me
No, you are asking for your class to be buffed because apparently you can't kill them.
Difference? Can't spot it.

Edit: To clarify, I have no idea how archers currently work, if they are OP or UP or whatever. I just think that the original post is so retarded in whining about whining that I just can't resist.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on July 28, 2011, 06:03:00 pm
At least i dont ask you to nerf other people because they kill me

A buff for archers is a nerf for everyone else.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Razzen on July 28, 2011, 06:03:31 pm
No, you are asking for your class to be buffed because apparently you can't kill them.
Difference? Can't spot it.

Edit: To clarify, I have no idea how archers currently work, if they are OP or UP or whatever. I just think that the original post is so retarded in whining about whining that I just can't resist.

Yeah it obviously need to go back to native, where it shoots like a machinegun and then we need to increase the damage and maybe some aim assistance just for Skurcey!
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Babelfish on July 28, 2011, 06:03:46 pm
Archers are fine.

More then fine actually, now that strategus is live again.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Dexxtaa on July 28, 2011, 06:05:42 pm
Can't tell if he means winners or whiners
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Blondin on July 28, 2011, 06:24:06 pm
I don't think the nerf was based on whining, but more on efficiency.

Do you remember old strat battles?
Did you see big clans battles?
Did you see builin battles?

Ranged are still decisive for the outcome of a battle, and i guess devs wanted to give a chance to other tactics, only solution was a nerf...
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Skurcey on July 28, 2011, 06:29:44 pm
well chadz, it s just that i played a lot, i have 2 MW bows that dont even sell at 1M on market place.
Just compare to the stats of the crossbows...

Horn Bow                                                                                                Crossbow
missile speed: 37 + PD6 mean 12% in speed max = 41.44                         missile speed: 52 (crossbow faster)
weight: 1.3                                                                                              weight: 3
accuracy: 97                                                                                            accuracy: 92 (need not as much in wpf anyway)
speed rating: 63 (+modified by wpf)                                                             speed rating: 28
difficulty: 15                                                                                             difficulty: 10
thrust damage: 24 cut  (5-6*12%, mean   38   or  41 cut damage)               thrust damage: 54 pierce
slots: 1     


I'm also wondering why none of the tincan players arent whinning about the crossbow. And why you needed to nerf archery 4-5 patch in a row.
Also i don't think my post was whining... or maybe we dont have the same definition.
Look at dextaa post, that, was a childish post. All i insuniate was why cRPG team, seems to always go with whinners side. (wooki on irc per example)
If it s truely for balance, why doesnt crossbow get nerfed, and why only two hands user are whining. If i invest 6 in power draw and and 7 in weapon master. why shouldnt be able to be balanced with the cav or polearm, that , can use a heavy armor and one shot low armor. Why wouldnt he just use a shield?

PS, blondin, wehn you assault or defend a castle, it s totally normal to use ranged or siege. did you allready try to manoeuvre a two handed maul from a ladder ...
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: chadz on July 28, 2011, 06:39:16 pm
Also i don't think my post was whining... or maybe we dont have the same definition.

If that post still doesn't count as whine, then the cRPG forum is now officialy whine-free.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Skurcey on July 28, 2011, 06:42:14 pm
so why was it childish?
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Dezilagel on July 28, 2011, 06:43:27 pm
Pretty okay troll, but only 7/10 for putting too much effort into it
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Magikarp on July 28, 2011, 06:49:47 pm
There hasn't been a single class in c-rpg that never got nerfed to shit.
Archery atm isn't one of them.

I give chadz a 8,4/10 for his trol, but the OP a 5/10, this just failed.l
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Skurcey on July 28, 2011, 06:50:13 pm
Pretty okay troll, but only 7/10 for putting too much effort into it

Do you say it s a troll because it will create a controversy with 2 hands players?
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Miley on July 28, 2011, 07:14:47 pm
I think archery was fine before it was nerfed this patch.

Now, heirloomed crossbows and bows don't have an added speed bonus. I don't think that's fair, considering all the others do.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on July 28, 2011, 08:42:22 pm
There are already loads of archery based threads. no need to go further  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: ManOfWar on July 28, 2011, 08:43:32 pm
No, you are asking for your class to be buffed because apparently you can't kill them.
Difference? Can't spot it.

Edit: To clarify, I have no idea how archers currently work, if they are OP or UP or whatever. I just think that the original post is so retarded in whining about whining that I just can't resist.

and burnnnnnnnnn
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Siiem on July 28, 2011, 08:51:45 pm
I whine all the time, no one buffs my class :(
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: _JoG_ on July 28, 2011, 09:33:32 pm
I think archery was fine before it was nerfed this patch.

Now, heirloomed crossbows and bows don't have an added speed bonus. I don't think that's fair, considering all the others do.
Archery was not fine because of Strategus mostly. Do you remember the first Strat? Most of the battles were decided by archers, infantry being only a support class, especially on EU servers. Even after the last nerf I see some clans hiring like 50% of archers for Strategus battles which makes those battles more "pew-pew" than "chop-chop".
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: bilwit on July 28, 2011, 09:36:56 pm
It's Mount & Blade not Mount & Ranged.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Tears of Destiny on July 28, 2011, 09:58:08 pm
It's Mount & Blade not Mount & Ranged.

Then stop wearing armor or shields. I don't see Axes or Mallets or such in the name either...
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Overdriven on July 28, 2011, 09:59:41 pm
It's Mount & Blade not Mount & Ranged.

Catchy names don't make the game.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Apsod on July 28, 2011, 10:07:37 pm
well chadz, it s just that i played a lot, i have 2 MW bows that dont even sell at 1M on market place.
Just compare to the stats of the crossbows...

Horn Bow                                                                                                Crossbow
missile speed: 37 + PD6 mean 12% in speed max = 41.44                         missile speed: 52 (crossbow faster) Crossbow has more force so the bolts should be faster.
weight: 1.3                                                                                              weight: 3
accuracy: 97                                                                                            accuracy: 92 (need not as much in wpf anyway) I used to be a crossbow man and wpf makes a huge difference. You can`t hit shit from long range without at least 100 wpf.
speed rating: 63 (+modified by wpf)                                                             speed rating: 28 Here is the bonus of the bow, it is x 2.25 faster than the xbow, and that is with 1 wpf in archery.
difficulty: 15                                                                                             difficulty: 10
thrust damage: 24 cut  (5-6*12%, mean   38   or  41 cut damage)               thrust damage: 54 pierce Crossbow has more force so it should be deal more damage.
slots: 1     
Another bonus that bows have is that you can move while preparing the next arrow.

You should not expect anyone to buy anything for 1M. I soldtwo MW one-handers for a total of 1600k and even I had to wait a while before anyone wanted to buy them.

Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Socrates on July 28, 2011, 10:10:17 pm

Joking aside, I made an STF archer alt, it wasn't THAT unplayable, but it feelt kinda limited though.

STF's don't mean much because you didn't spend the time grinding levels as a peasant. As an archer you don't become useful till 25+ levels. Otherwise you're just cannon fodder or a bouncing machine.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Christo on July 28, 2011, 10:17:57 pm
STF's don't mean much because you didn't spend the time grinding levels as a peasant. As an archer you don't become useful till 25+ levels. Otherwise you're just cannon fodder or a bouncing machine.

Same is true for melee.

Well, you can get kills via backstabs, but taking someone face-to-face is really hard until 25-26.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Vibe on July 28, 2011, 11:58:38 pm
The irony of the opening post... it is incredible.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on July 29, 2011, 12:00:42 am
i'v got a better one for you : my old friend and arrow : pincushion (or roofmonkeys)  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on July 29, 2011, 12:32:16 am
Clearly chadz's primary goal is to eliminate archery from cRPG. There's no other explaination for nerfing the class to the point where it is now ridiculously balanced and fun to play. The writing is on the wall, folks. Myself and OP just choose to see it, why don't you?

Open your eyes, god dammit.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: BranStark on July 29, 2011, 01:07:40 am
Everything is cool except Xbow.

Fucking xbow.

I really do think it is unfair that anyone with 1 wpf can just pick one up and start raping people with 1 to 2 shots.

Realistic is realistic... I suppose.  :mad:
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Bjarky on July 29, 2011, 01:39:55 am
well, i use melee mainly and have an archer alt for lulz.
archery is almost balanced now, except the missile speed has been nerfed a tad too much, the range is just too low now, light xbow has a more range than horn bow ingame^^, a couple of points could be added here again, not like the pre patch, but something in between could do the trick without getting back to the long range sniping, wich was a bit too much.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Socrates on July 29, 2011, 01:50:28 am
Same is true for melee.

Well, you can get kills via backstabs, but taking someone face-to-face is really hard until 25-26.

I can fare well in melee easily 20+ and be more useful than an archer.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Bulzur on July 29, 2011, 03:11:24 am
Archery was not fine because of Strategus mostly. Do you remember the first Strat? Most of the battles were decided by archers, infantry being only a support class, especially on EU servers. Even after the last nerf I see some clans hiring like 50% of archers for Strategus battles which makes those battles more "pew-pew" than "chop-chop".

Oh, so that's why archers were nerfed ?!
Because in "old" strategus there was lv40 archers with 200wpf topping the scoreboard, even though "now" :
-level limit
-impossible to have more than 173wpf in archery as a "normal" player
-weight nerfs wpf greatly
-all bows but one do cut damage
-new animation adds a bit more reload time (wich looks great, except for the "why the hell must i grab another arrow since i haven't fied that one)


So we didn't test strategus "before" the newest update with the missile speed nerf, but OF COURSE archery needed at least one more nerf since it was so OP 4 months ago.


I'm one of the "archery was fine, maybe add a bow for 5PD foot archers, else ha is more viable" lobbyist. Even though it won't change anything.

To OP : Such posts don't help at all the archer's cause. And they never did.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Topsnus on July 29, 2011, 04:13:04 am
Made a STF archer, VERY GOOD. Class could use some refining, but here it is.


Attributes
Available points: 0
Strength   24   
Agility   15   
Weapon proficiency
Available points: 5
One Handed   1   1 point per wpf
Two Handed   1   1 point per wpf
Polearm   1   1 point per wpf
Archery   146   9 points per wpf
Crossbow   1   1 point per wpf
Throwing   1   1 point per wpf
Skills
Available points: 0
Iron Flesh   0   3 strength per level
Power Strike   6   3 strength per level
Shield   0   3 agility per level
Athletics   4   3 agility per level
Riding   0   3 agility per level
Horse Archery   0   6 agility per level
Power Draw   8   3 strength per level
Power Throw   0   3 strength per level
Weapon Master   5   3 agility per level

Prolly drop the PS and put it somewhere useful since you wont bring a melee. Use a Rus Bow and 2 sets of Bodkins. If you use low armor it is quite accurate and does very high damage. The shoot speed isn't awful either. Archers are not underpowered.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Malrec on July 29, 2011, 06:19:03 am
Well I think this mod is complete crap personally. I hate how they weakened throwing so badly yet still my jarids cost an insane amount to repair. I don't like that I keep getting moved to the losing team every night over and over again. Whatever matrix is being used to pick teams is really screwing me over. I spend most of my time in crpg at 1x where I watch all the money I saved from running around in a robe just vanish unless I go back to the robe again.

But you know that wouldn't be so bad except for the UTTER AND COMPLETE BULLSHIT that are the crush through and stun weapons. This is so utterly OP and nobody seems to even have a problem with it. Add in the fact that in general two handed weapons seem to be able to hit you around corners and even their backswings can somehow slide in around my shield. Then it seems like people can swing them so fast than they can swing, I dodge, I'm cocked to swing and let go of my swing and they can still RESWING faster. It's utter bullshit! Whatever is being used to determine hit radius for two handers in general is completely borked. Utterly and hopelessly wrong.

Anyway I think this mod is completely unbalanced and it seems like the devs making it worse rather than better with all the changes and screwing around they keep doing. I dont think I'll be playing crpg much longer and good riddance to me right?
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Gorath on July 29, 2011, 07:15:16 am
Yup, it's all true.  That's why we don't see teams of 6-15 archers on one side in the battle servers due to auto-balancestacker running x5 for extended periods of time due to being able to continuously kite while the melee's get shot in the back no matter which direction they spin with their shield to try and survive....


owait

But you know that wouldn't be so bad except for the UTTER AND COMPLETE BULLSHIT that are the crush through and stun weapons. This is so utterly OP and nobody seems to even have a problem with it.
Umm, quite a few of us have problems with those two mechanics.  In fact just barely browsing the forums I see a number of threads about those issues.  Have you tried the search feature?
good riddance to me right?

Generally, yes that is the accepted answer.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: DrKronic on July 29, 2011, 07:50:15 am
I'm really tired that the dev listen to the cry baby that yell for a nerf, because they cant time to LEARN THE FING GAME

fixed  :mrgreen:

PS true for about everything ingame
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: King Ahab on July 29, 2011, 08:01:26 am
Xbows aren't as useful as you might think to someone who doesn't spec for it. At least, that's how I feel about it. Maybe I'm just crap with a ranged weapon:D!
No seriously, in order for you to hit something, you will need to be at a rather daunting distance, say 20 meters from your target if you're using an Arbalest and have 1 wpf. And even at that distance I couldn't hit squat:O Thing is, when using such a heavy weapon, you use up slots for something to protect yourself, and given the fact that it's soooo slow to reload I'd say that it's a one shot weapon before you switch to melee to counter the coming onslaught.

Personally I don't like to use crossbows, but I don't mind someone hitting me at 100 yards with em: if so, they probably spent their precious wpf points on it.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Bjord on July 29, 2011, 09:34:57 am
Whine whine whine whine, whine whine whine. Whine whine!

Whine whine? Whine.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Lefu on July 29, 2011, 10:17:02 am
Funny how over half my deaths are still from ranged or caused by ranged fire, even tough archers are nerfed to the ground  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Kafein on July 29, 2011, 11:04:49 am
Now, let's see if Skurcey really quits the game. If yes, well no problem. If no, super whine fail.
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: Skurcey on July 29, 2011, 12:05:42 pm
Now, let's see if Skurcey really quits the game. If yes, well no problem. If no, super whine fail.

Not really , i didnt add any time phrase ...

Archery seems good with 6 PD, really more than with 5, whatever  :?
Title: Re: cRPG is whinners biased
Post by: exelence on July 29, 2011, 12:29:15 pm
My archer works fine, when the enemy gets too close I usually even manage to nail a few with my 2 hand wielded Cudgel.