cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: EyeBeat on July 21, 2011, 03:23:28 pm
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I will start off this post with a quote from chadz about the upkeep increase and why it is more expensive.
Upkeep was increased because there is now a way to influence it with personal skill, thus resulting in a higher multiplicator for better players.
Also, we wanted to see lower priced equipment in general.
Good players adapt, weak players lobby. :wink:
edit:Gold is one of many variables in items. Many items are better than what they cost, but the overall stats are weaker. Which is interesting.
So basically what he is saying is that it is cheaper and you get more for your money when you use the low to mid grade weapons. Using the top of the line weapons will make you pay more to repair. In a way he is forcing everyone to use less expensive armor and weapons so that skill shines a little bit more than some dude in triple heirloomed plate helicoptering all over the place.
I get what you are saying chadz and I agree with your move to make repairs more expensive on high end equipment. It will make battles more skill based and not everyone will use the best of the best all the time. Right? No.... Wrong. The exact opposite is happening.
The problem you didn't anticipate was that you have many players that have poopsocked so much in this game that they have almost a million or two saved up. Does this effect them? Not really. Will it anytime soon? Nope.
Why?
Well because of the upkeep cost new players and players like myself who play casually(at the most 12 hours a week) have to play with these people that have never ending fortunes. They never change their gear to something different and always wear the best of the best. Therefore they will almost always get the 5x more often. Hence making them more and more less likely to finally budget themselves accordingly like the rest of the player base and use different equipment from time to time.
So basically although I fully support what you are trying to do chadz with this upkeep increase.... it still makes new players to this game less likely to be able to compete with the players on a skillwise level since they will always wear the best of the best.
What do you guys think?
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Multiply upkeeps costs dramatically by every heirloom level item gets, problem solved.
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gen 1 up to level 15 pay no upkeep?
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I will start off this post with a quote from chadz about the upkeep increase and why it is more expensive.
So basically what he is saying is that it is cheaper and you get more for your money when you use the low to mid grade weapons. Using the top of the line weapons will make you pay more to repair. In a way he is forcing everyone to use less expensive armor and weapons so that skill shines a little bit more than some dude in triple heirloomed plate helicoptering all over the place.
I get what you are saying chadz and I agree with your move to make repairs more expensive on high end equipment. It will make battles more skill based and not everyone will use the best of the best all the time. Right? No.... Wrong. The exact opposite is happening.
The problem you didn't anticipate was that you have many players that have poopsocked so much in this game that they have almost a million or two saved up. Does this effect them? Not really. Will it anytime soon? Nope.
Why?
Well because of the upkeep cost new players and players like myself who play casually(at the most 12 hours a week) have to play with these people that have never ending fortunes. They never change their gear to something different and always wear the best of the best. Therefore they will almost always get the 5x more often. Hence making them more and more less likely to finally budget themselves accordingly like the rest of the player base and use different equipment from time to time.
So basically although I fully support what you are trying to do chadz with this upkeep increase.... it still makes new players to this game less likely to be able to compete with the players on a skillwise level since they will always wear the best of the best.
What do you guys think?
well u don't have the right to complain in my opinion
your over glorified casually
i don't mean the normal casually
I mean your Kind if you but the time and effort into the game you should have a advanteg over people like your self.
Why would you care if they kill you or win ?
you only but 12 hours a weak in the game its like you have a little fun and leave why would you care.
Its only because your over glorified casually that wants to be like the people that worked there ass off grinding geting money..
and you want it to come in ur lap
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At the moment it's nothing to do with casual/lame full time gamers. It's more to do with the people who have played crpg LONG before upkeep was ever implemented. Bearing in mind, upkeep is a relatively new implementation. Before you could save up gold and the only thing that would matter was buying equipment. As a result the older players, many of them on ridiculous numbers of gens, have huge reserves of gold. I don't think it's fair to punish them for it. But it does make the upkeep system a little bit more redundant.
At the moment upkeep is to high. It's nigh impossible to earn a decent amount of gold unless you grind as a peasant, or in very very low level gear. This would certainly put me off if I was a new players, seeing as you have to save up for something by grinding, only to buy it and then have to save up again to use it. It means by the time you get to use your shiny new piece of equipment, you've probably played a good few hours of nothing.
I think upkeep pre-patch was fine. I don't know what they did to it, and there are those that claim you should still be able to support a high level of equipment, but from person after person posting, and general conversations with people in game/ts ect. Everyone agrees that it's a bit daft the way it is at the moment.
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I'd like to see a wipe the next time a big patch rolls around, but yeah...rage
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Working to grind gold?
Working...?
Something wrong...
Anyway, i don´t see why you should have an advantage because you have a lot of time to play. Eventualy you should be better because you spend more time to train, but you should not have an advantage because of better gear. That would mean that the guy who spend his life on crpg would be the best because he has better item.
Skills>time spent
About upkeep, i´m prety sure that it helps newplayer, i remember old days with no upkeep, it was harder for new player and peasant time was longer.
Upkeep prices raised, but you can still afford medium gear, what else need a new or casual player? medium gear will give you sufficient power to crush tin can (with some skills).
Don´t forget that new player are mostly just bad, you can give them plate they still be crush by a veteran in peasant gear...
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Don´t forget that new player are mostly just bad, you can give them plate they still be crush by a veteran in peasant gear...
But that's why it's hard for new players atm I think. chadz says that upkeep is related to skill. New players inevitably have less skill and it will take them time to build up that skill. However, a lot of that is also dependent on the equipment they buy. If upkeep is skill related, then new players will never be able to get better/afford the equipment to get better.
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if a guy sucks there is nothing you can do, give him tin can he will still suck.
Newplayer start the game and suck, he has low equip, so he thinks that he sucks because he has bad gear, it needs time to buy better gear, meanwhile he trains himself and learn new skills.
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if a guy sucks there is nothing you can do, give him tin can he will still suck.
Newplayer start the game and suck, he has low equip, so he thinks that he sucks because he has bad gear, it needs time to buy better gear, meanwhile he trains himself and learn new skills.
But that's my point...why should you be punished for sucking? You may just naturally suck. Especially for those who don't have the time for training themselves up on a game. You should still be able to have fun, even if you're bad. And a lot of the fun in warband/crpg comes with good equipment.
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I totally Agree
I am one of those players that suck.
I have played for a while. Some time's I am ok, but most of the time I am pretty crap. I am also referred to as the worst cav player on the AU server.
I love Cav. I ride and joust in RL. I cant afford to ride in game now. I have a well bread charger and standard large warhorse and plated charger. I bring my heavy horse's out about 2 - 3 times in a 3 hour session and most of the time they get upkeep that cripples me. It BS that i cant play cav even on my rouncey and get ahead. Also on the AU server the rounds end quickly so when you have x5 you have it for bugger all time.
Upkeep on Cav is crap. The game is called "Mount and Blade" not dismount and be a peice of shit pesant scum.
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+1 just for this line:
Upkeep on Cav is crap. The game is called "Mount and Blade" not dismount and be a peice of shit pesant scum.
LOL
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I totally Agree
I am one of those players that suck.
I have played for a while. Some time's I am ok, but most of the time I am pretty crap. I am also referred to as the worst cav player on the AU server.
I love Cav. I ride and joust in RL. I cant afford to ride in game now. I have a well bread charger and standard large warhorse and plated charger. I bring my heavy horse's out about 2 - 3 times in a 3 hour session and most of the time they get upkeep that cripples me. It BS that i cant play cav even on my rouncey and get ahead. Also on the AU server the rounds end quickly so when you have x5 you have it for bugger all time.
Upkeep on Cav is crap. The game is called "Mount and Blade" not dismount and be a peice of shit pesant scum.
You can make money with a rouncy, it won't be pretty but you can run some chain armor, light or lance, cheap shit shield to take 1 hit. If you are 1h cav it will be a little rougher doing melee with a desert horse though.
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if you suck, you suck no matter your equipment.
The mod is called cRPG, in a RP way there is no peasant on a horse or with armor, only knight could afford expensive gear.
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if you suck, you suck no matter your equipment.
The mod is called cRPG, in a RP way there is no peasant on a horse or with armor, only knight could afford expensive gear.
I don't agree with this. On a battle or a siege server, most of the time you die because of circumstances outside your control; you're climbing a ladder and a crossbowman gets a headshot, or someone chops you from behind with a greatsword while you were fighting someone else or you get team hit and finished off while you're still stunned. What saves you most is gear, whether it's heavy armour, a good thick shield or a nasty weapon that kills them before they can kill you, not your amazing blocking and footwork skills honed to perfection by long hours on the duel server - those don't do any harm either, but they are not the key factor.
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Those skills you get on duel server are keyfactors cause then you know when you can hit your enemy without allowing him to hit you.
It gives you timing and also footwork which is more important in siege then blocking. That may be true.
Actually i cant see that problem with upkeep. I have fairly high equip and i can still earn money.
Some people always say it was easier back then but you had to spend a lot more time last year
to get your first good equip and you were far more a peasant then today.
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upkeep is still low make it bigger.
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This endless upkeep whine is silly. You can wear gear for 25k and still earn money. You don't NEED better gear. It's nice to have sometimes but you don't NEED it. I wear gear worth 29k and I'm neither making nor losing money. Just wear cheaper stuff. My melee char with cheap ass gear regularly tops the boards.
Gear is simply not that important as people seem to think. Wear cheapar shit, learn to play well and you will get money.
A money wipe would do nothing. Grinders will grind, always has always will. Just cause your cruising around in fullplate on a charger does not mean your a good player. Hell it's probably the opposite.
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I liked the changes made to the upkeep, i didnt like the nerf to cavalary, like the 40o attack range, with that was already tough to be a cavalary man, with all people on ground with spears and etc..
With those changes to upkeep, it is harder for a casual gamer and not that skilled be a cavalary man.
- First you will be need grind gold in peasant gear for some couple of hours, to play 1 hour of the so fun cavalary build. They are bringing the darkfall online worst grind ever made to the mod :P
However I apreciate the hard work of dev team to cRPG.
ps. it was nerfed lance on cavalary, but what about all those guys fighting with big polearms against one-handed and two handeds, nobody in real life would fight againts a two-handed with a stick in close combat without get his spear broke by the weapon of the enemy. Raise the maitance to big polearms, they should break every round!
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ps. it was nerfed lance on cavalary, but what about all those guys fighting with big polearms against one-handed and two handeds, nobody in real life would fight againts a two-handed with a stick in close combat without get his spear broke by the weapon of the enemy. Raise the maitance to big polearms, they should break every round!
Don't make a suggestion that has no regard to game balance... Game Balance takes precedence over everything else... Realism is fine only if tempered with playability. *Points to the name of the Forum*
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Don't make a suggestion that has no regard to game balance... Game Balance takes precedence over everything else... Realism is fine only if tempered with playability. *Points to the name of the Forum*
IMO, i said that because one of the arguments of lance nerf on horses was the realism. :D
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People aren't complaining that they can't wear top gear because they want to live, they want to wear it to look cool. chadz, when he started this, said something like wanting everyone to play the way they wanted to with the equipment they wanted. It's also called cRPG, not cRPGbutonlywithinthelimitssetbyupkeep.
I don't want to wear heavy armour to live longer or get an advantage, I just want to look cool :(
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People aren't complaining that they can't wear top gear because they want to live, they want to wear it to look cool. chadz, when he started this, said something like wanting everyone to play the way they wanted to with the equipment they wanted. It's also called cRPG, not cRPGbutonlywithinthelimitssetbyupkeep.
I don't want to wear heavy armour to live longer or get an advantage, I just want to look cool :(
Yeah that's what told the peasant to the knight, and the knight said "get some gold you peasant!!"
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People aren't complaining that they can't wear top gear because they want to live, they want to wear it to look cool. chadz, when he started this, said something like wanting everyone to play the way they wanted to with the equipment they wanted. It's also called cRPG, not cRPGbutonlywithinthelimitssetbyupkeep.
I don't want to wear heavy armour to live longer or get an advantage, I just want to look cool :(
Yeah exactly, love the plate armor style.
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I think Upkeep should be removed or altered greatly. In it's current state, it does not belong in the game, it's just a flawed and imbalanced feature. It makes matches frustrating, losing & dying not fun, and it makes this game all about luck (whether or not you get the better team, flip a coin. i'm forced to leave matches otherwise). I just can't play anymore because of this, it's not entertaining nor does it improve my gaming experience. I don't want to downgrade or lose my gear just because I put time into into the game, and kept fighting even though I was losing, in fact I should be rewarded for that. We don't deserve this garbage, there's plenty of better alternatives. It's such a chore.
Advancing my character should be fun, but instead it's difficult and hardly possible. I shouldn't have to save my money through 4 generations to be able to even bankroll a full plate armor set. THAT ISN'T FUN, who the heck thought this was a good idea? Remember when C-RPG was laid back and enjoyable? Now we have to put up with this and it ruins the game for many! Trust me, I really tried to get into C-RPG and tolerate this but I can't anymore. This is the reason I quit months ago, and it still remains! Ridiculous.
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People also remember taking forever to level up from being a peasant, and even with upkeep you have better gear then native where you have to win five billion times in a row in order to use top gear.
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People also remember taking forever to level up from being a peasant, and even with upkeep you have better gear then native where you have to win five billion times in a row in order to use top gear.
Native doesn't have repair bills. It's irrelevant. In all the time I've had my current price range of gear in C_RPG I could have full black armor in native.
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Native doesn't have repair bills. It's irrelevant. In all the time I've had my current price range of gear in C_RPG I could have full black armor in native.
Last I checked in native, if I exit a server and join back in, I start over from scratch for my budget... When I think of how many hours I have sunk into native to "grind" for a higher budget... that stacks up...
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Last I checked in native, if I exit a server and join back in, I start over from scratch for my budget... When I think of how many hours I have sunk into native to "grind" for a higher budget... that stacks up...
It's entirely different in native and the two can't compare. But it's a lot harder in C-RPG to maintain full plate. It takes thousands of gold out of you, while in Native it takes only a bit of time. and you don't lose as much gold per match. I can't believe you're still trying to compare these two entirely different systems.
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It's entirely different in native and the two can't compare. But it's a lot harder in C-RPG to maintain full plate. It takes thousands of gold out of you, while in Native it takes only a bit of time. and you don't lose as much gold per match. I can't believe you're still trying to compare these two entirely different systems.
I am comparing because people complain it takes while to get high end gear, despite the fact that with the current c-rpg you can replicate an identical load out for a swadian knight and sustain it indefinetly... For the TIME invested, c-rpg still pulls out ahead, so someone who wants to be an expensive knight in shining armour would have an easier time in c-rpg then in Native where they can only play their "fantasy" for short bursts of time (where as c-rpg you can do it forever once you get to that level, and never have to back down).
I really don't get it.
The only stuff that you can not use 24/7 is the best gear and that is deliberate as it is... the best gear... kinda normal, really... That is what makes it so special...
You can make money and wear low end stuff, make almost no money in the long run and wear mid-range, or lose money and wear the best... I see nothing wrong with this system.
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I am comparing because people complain it takes while to get high end gear, despite the fact that with the current c-rpg you can replicate an identical load out for a swadian knight and sustain it indefinetly... For the TIME invested, c-rpg still pulls out ahead, so someone who wants to be an expensive knight in shining armour would have an easier time in c-rpg then in Native where they can only play their "fantasy" for short bursts of time (where as c-rpg you can do it forever once you get to that level, and never have to back down).
I really don't get it.
The only stuff that you can not use 24/7 is the best gear and that is deliberate as it is... the best gear... kinda normal, really... That is what makes it so special...
You can make money and wear low end stuff, make almost no money in the long run and wear mid-range, or lose money and wear the best... I see nothing wrong with this system.
I'm wearing mid-end gear and losing money due to the teams I get, so you're wrong. It's a 50/50 chance you'll have a team that wins, but even when you DO the multiplier doesn't last long. Randomness is why this system doesn't work. You lose money because your team lost the game for you, and it's not your fault you landed on the worse team, so in the end it just feels really unfair. I decide to put time into this server and I get punished for it, that's ironic. Randomness is the basis of this entire system, so it's the inaccuracy of that which makes it fail. With this damned upkeep I can never just relax and have fun. It's always breathing down my neck.
That's why your story with C-RPG is entirely different from mine. It's not my inexperience, it's just LUCK.
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Even with a x1 for life and you never ever winning ever you can still sustain 23,000 gold of gear.
That 50 percent chance you keep bringing up is an average multiplier of 1.9
If you perform well even if your team lost, you can get the "thy valour is rewarded" text which allows you to keep your multiplier.
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Even with a x1 for life and you never ever winning ever you can still sustain 23,000 gold of gear.
That 50 percent chance you keep bringing up is an average multiplier of 1.9
If you perform well even if your team lost, you can get the "thy valour is rewarded" text which allows you to keep your multiplier.
A lot of this is luck.
I wear gear with around 21k total cost, and I usually make money.
However
I have a buffer of about 20k. There have been rounds where I have a positive KDR, but I go on a 10+ round losing streak and lose thousands of gold. Because of my buffer, this is fine. New players will find it very difficult to generate this buffer, and for a lot of them, will dip to 4 digit gold reserves after a purchase. This means they are incredibly at risk to a cold streak which may have nothing to do with their overall skill and bankrupt themselves.
The new 1-25 gen 1 system will certainly help this, but the current upkeep system certainly favors players who have been around for a while.
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A lot of this is luck.
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With enough samples luck becomes to a variable.
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A lot of this is luck.
I wear gear with around 21k total cost, and I usually make money.
However
I have a buffer of about 20k. There have been rounds where I have a positive KDR, but I go on a 10+ round losing streak and lose thousands of gold. Because of my buffer, this is fine. New players will find it very difficult to generate this buffer, and for a lot of them, will dip to 4 digit gold reserves after a purchase. This means they are incredibly at risk to a cold streak which may have nothing to do with their overall skill and bankrupt themselves.
The new 1-25 gen 1 system will certainly help this, but the current upkeep system certainly favors players who have been around for a while.
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This. Especially the luck part. Last night I was on TS with the guys and we were rolling a x5 for 4 maps in a row (20 rounds) Of those 20 rounds I got hit with at least 3 items breaking all but one round, joked it off over vent about how with a x5 I managed to LOSE 9k gold for the night.
This was playing in a gambeson, felt hat, leather boots, mail guantlets, my mil cleaver and red tassel spear/long war axe (depending on my mood that round).
Other nights I've been on x1 for an entire map in churburg, klappvisor, Iron greaves, hourglass guantlets, my cleaver/spear AND a shield and had NOTHING break.
So again, ALOT of this is pure stupid luck.
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I totally Agree
I am one of those players that suck.
I have played for a while. Some time's I am ok, but most of the time I am pretty crap. I am also referred to as the worst cav player on the AU server.
I love Cav. I ride and joust in RL. I cant afford to ride in game now. I have a well bread charger and standard large warhorse and plated charger. I bring my heavy horse's out about 2 - 3 times in a 3 hour session and most of the time they get upkeep that cripples me. It BS that i cant play cav even on my rouncey and get ahead. Also on the AU server the rounds end quickly so when you have x5 you have it for bugger all time.
Upkeep on Cav is crap. The game is called "Mount and Blade" not dismount and be a peice of shit pesant scum.
In the game Space invader - you defend the planet from aliens. STUPIDPIECEOFSHIT DEFENDER SCUM
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In the game Space invader - you defend the planet from aliens. STUPIDPIECEOFSHIT DEFENDER SCUM
You necroed a post 70 days later to say that? :|
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You necroed a post 70 days later to say that? :|
Byzantium. Move along.
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the irony
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Speaking of this topic.
Supposedly upkeep has caught up with the players. Rumor on the street is that Goretooth is poor. Unless he is trolling me.
chadz's Upkeep System is FINALLY WORKING!
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I don't really understand some players. Some complain that noobs can't afford anything. Then when they eventually can the argument switches to people not wanting players to be able to use expensive stuff a lot. So some want high tier gear that is not too expensive to buy yet ultimately not usable much of the time. Why not just make high tier stuff appropriately expensive to BEGIN with?
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[...] This endless upkeep whine is silly. You can wear gear for 25k and still earn money. You don't NEED better gear. It's nice to have sometimes but you don't NEED it. I wear gear worth 29k and I'm neither making nor losing money. Just wear cheaper stuff. My melee char with cheap ass gear regularly tops the boards. [...]
This is exactly what I do not understand about the people saying upkeep is cool: new players should just give up and use cheap gear while the veterans run in full plate all day. As designed.
If you don't NEED it, if it's not that important: why limit it's availability?
For what it's worth: A buddy who has the game, loves it, but don't want to play cRPG because of one reason - upkeep. He wanted to play a Cav, told him it's expensive so he should wait a few generations... because he'll start paying upkeep past level 25.
How long is a few generations? he asked.
I answered: well, i played roughly 60-70 hours I think, I'm closed to retiring for the second time...
He never played cRPG again.
I'd love to see if the majority of the pro-upkeeps are veteran players, or new players. I understand the need and design reasoning behind the "work hard and you get a cookie" idea. But not all players have 20 hours a week to pump into a single game. I certainly do not want to "work" in a game, got enough of that already.
And the servers will be boring when only veterans are around as new blood is always castrated upon birth.
This game/mod requires a lot of skill and training: that's a large enough obstacle before becoming competitive. Upkeep just drowns some good swimmers that don't know they can swim yet.
Too hardcore, even for a hardcore game.
Leave the grinding to WoW freaks, let skill prevail in cRPG.
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Leave the grinding to WoW freaks, let skill prevail in cRPG.
That's why upkeep was implemented.
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[...] This endless upkeep whine is silly. You can wear gear for 25k and still earn money. You don't NEED better gear. It's nice to have sometimes but you don't NEED it. I wear gear worth 29k and I'm neither making nor losing money. Just wear cheaper stuff. My melee char with cheap ass gear regularly tops the boards. [...]
This is exactly what I do not understand about the people saying upkeep is cool: new players should just give up and use cheap gear while the veterans run in full plate all day. As designed.
If you don't NEED it, if it's not that important: why limit it's availability?
For what it's worth: A buddy who has the game, loves it, but don't want to play cRPG because of one reason - upkeep. He wanted to play a Cav, told him it's expensive so he should wait a few generations... because he'll start paying upkeep past level 25.
How long is a few generations? he asked.
I answered: well, i played roughly 60-70 hours I think, I'm closed to retiring for the second time...
He never played cRPG again.
I'd love to see if the majority of the pro-upkeeps are veteran players, or new players. I understand the need and design reasoning behind the "work hard and you get a cookie" idea. But not all players have 20 hours a week to pump into a single game. I certainly do not want to "work" in a game, got enough of that already.
And the servers will be boring when only veterans are around as new blood is always castrated upon birth.
This game/mod requires a lot of skill and training: that's a large enough obstacle before becoming competitive. Upkeep just drowns some good swimmers that don't know they can swim yet.
Too hardcore, even for a hardcore game.
Leave the grinding to WoW freaks, let skill prevail in cRPG.
And that is what we currently have. I doubt most people could beat Greifenherz/Atze equipped with light armour and scythes/quarter staffs, even if they had plate and poleaxes. I've managed to kill lots of plate wielders as a low lvl guy with cloth armour and a cheap mace. The "good" armour and "good" weapons doesn't gives you an edge but it's not the main factor in who wins a fight.
Still, I do think we need more variety in the weapons and equipment used. But having low/no upkeep would make everyone able to use plate/horses/bodkin/arbalest. So who should be the guys with the best equipment? The "new" guys? How would that work in a way that isn't easily abusable? They tried to ease the beginning for new guys with the no-upkeep before lvl 25, gen 1. See how that is already abused. Instead of whining about the upkeep, you need to think of ways to make it easier for the new guys without making it even easier for the "old" players.
If we removed upkeep, what would keep the "old" players from using the expensive stuff all the time? The game would be MUCH harder for new players compared to what it is now. That is how it was before and that is how it will be if we take it away.
Also, to your friend. He should be able to play as cav just fine. He just won't be able to use the most expensive horses and weapons. Playing with the rouncey, a lance and a military scythe or quarterstaff is what I did when I was in my secound gen and upkeep was introduced. It's not the best gear, but you can still earn money. The weapons are good enough, but looting might still be worth it.
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Not whining, just having a discussion ;)
I wasn't here before the upkeep - so i cannot compare the two. But upkeep does feel like grinding, even if that was not the objective at first. It give the impression that you lose progression and that you need to play to gain cash, not to have fun.
Like I have said in a different thread - better balance could be the end of upkeep: speed vs toughness, maneuverability vs firepower, etc.
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meh ...
Older players have no problem with upkeep (if you do do not invest without parental guidance), newer players get the shaft.
Make roughly 100-150k a gen, you can also lose that much.
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These guys dont remember when u needed like a month of playing or more to even buy a milanese body armor(only the body piece cause you got like 25 or 50 gold on the rounds you won and nothing on the rest) , or when people could bring one heavy lance,one arbalest,bolts and a flambergue on a plated charger with full plate set and 200+ proficiency. Was fun, but now its better,much better. A peasant guy had to face a knight like this in old times, u think that that guy had a easy time as peasant?. (you were peasant more than 1 hour in that era of cprg,not like now)
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The progression is the reason MMORPGs are popular - people want to get better when they put more time into it, they want to see their characters progress, get better items and more gold. If you removed that aspect and made everyone equal, many of the 24/7 gamers wouldnt want to play the game cause even after playing for so long, the guy who only spent 1/5 the time playing has the same stuff, which makes it seem like a 'waste of time'.
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The progression is the reason MMORPGs are popular - people want to get better when they put more time into it, they want to see their characters progress, get better items and more gold. If you removed that aspect and made everyone equal, many of the 24/7 gamers wouldnt want to play the game cause even after playing for so long, the guy who only spent 1/5 the time playing has the same stuff, which makes it seem like a 'waste of time'.
Yeah but MMORPGs dont depend on everybody fighting all the time against each other.
If i had to play 200h against stupid NPCs i would like to get some shit for it for sure to not get bored after 1h.
If i had to play for 200h against NPC to participate in PVP i would trash the game.
This is no MMOG. Its a medieval combatgame with elements of an RPG. If there wouldnt be maxlvl and upkeep
only pure grinders would stay and everybody else would quit after some time.
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Upkeep is a way to use good gear as a treat for the player, but it is completely unnecessary. I'm an archer, everyone QQ's about how strong bodkins are. Reality is they cost an arm and a leg for a bit of extra damage. So being the poor man I am, I use regular arrows. I get 18 more shots and still do cut damage. How does my KDR reflect using arrows over bodkins? I may miss out on 1-2 kills, but otherwise my score is extremely similar.
I made a skip the fun character recently too. He rolls around using a spiked mace and 11-13 weight armor, wearing about 15k total gold on him. Will I top the charts against people like goretooth or serge? Probably not. Will I be second or third on the list? It's possible.
Upkeep is fine, stop depending on armor to fix you mistakes.
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Stop saying everyone depends on their fucking armor.
I want to play in full plate all the time, I can't, some guy wants to play to play in ninja gear all the time, he can, that sucks.
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Stop saying everyone depends on their fucking armor.
I want to play in full plate all the time, I can't, some guy wants to play to play in ninja gear all the time, he can, that sucks.
Which is why really there should only be 3 tiers of "armor".
Light - barely any protection, but you remain fast
Medium - decent protection, only slows you down a little
Heavy - Most protection, you're now a turtle
And then the "look" should simply be visual. That way you can wear your "plate" for your look but it doesn't actually do anything for you protection wise. It's win-win.
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Personally I recommend you try the costume approach. Based on the situation of the siege or battle you can dress up like a nobleman/king/queen, generic pike/spearman, maceman, anonymous peasant conscript, barbarian peasant, winged helmet w/nudity or what not. Black robes and other combinations can make for hours of fun.
Caution however, this is indended only for people who don't play super cereal. Trust me armor and weapons don't entirely make the player. Take your time learning from an opponent, understanding how people move, and trying to fake or counter what they do. I myself am not a melee expert by far, but it can be a fun challenge trying to take down a tin can.
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Personally I recommend you try the costume approach. Based on the situation of the siege or battle you can dress up like a nobleman/king/queen, generic pike/spearman, maceman, anonymous peasant conscript, barbarian peasant, winged helmet w/nudity or what not. Black robes and other combinations can make for hours of fun.
Caution however, this is indended only for people who don't play super cereal. Trust me armor and weapons don't entirely make the player. Take your time learning from an opponent, understanding how people move, and trying to fake or counter what they do. I myself am not a melee expert by far, but it can be a fun challenge trying to take down a tin can.
The feeling of standing over a dead man. With full plate, made by master smiths, on his body. You wearing only rags. No shield. No helmet. Only a small mace in your hand. THAT, is the joy of cRPG.
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The feeling of standing over a dead man. With full plate, made by master smiths, on his body. You wearing only rags. No shield. No helmet. Only a small mace in your hand. THAT, is the joy of cRPG.
I AM KRONAN, LORD OF PEASANTS, FARMER OF MUD, LOOK UPON MY HARVEST AND TREMBLE!
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The feeling of standing over a dead man. With full plate, made by master smiths, on his body. You wearing only rags. No shield. No helmet. Only a small mace in your hand. THAT, is the joy of cRPG.
Nope, true joy is parading over all those pesants you slayed while wearing full palte and they couldn't do shit about it, because fuck you peasants rebels, bow to me.
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Nope, true joy is parading over all those pesants you slayed while wearing full palte and they couldn't do shit about it, because fuck you peasants rebels, bow to me.
I love you bob... except for this mentality of yours which makes me puke in my mouth. :(
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Well... I always play a warrior in game, does that make your puke taste better?
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Well... I always play a warrior in game, does that make your puke taste better?
A little bit yes. Like regurgitated Reese's Cups. Still puke, but almost kind of good.
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Which is why really there should only be 3 tiers of "armor".
Light - barely any protection, but you remain fast
Medium - decent protection, only slows you down a little
Heavy - Most protection, you're now a turtle
And then the "look" should simply be visual. That way you can wear your "plate" for your look but it doesn't actually do anything for you protection wise. It's win-win.
This a million times. And Heavy armor should really slow you down, not like the lightning speed armor crutchers we have now.
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You ever used heavy armor? I feel slowed down enough as it is right now.
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I did and it doesn't feel that slower. I believe it should slow you down even more.
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Oh yeah that'll be great! Swing your long espada as slow as fucking hammer...
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Well I was leaning more towards movement speed reduction, not attack speed reduction.
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Well I was leaning more towards movement speed reduction, not attack speed reduction.
Same
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You ever used heavy armor? I feel slowed down enough as it is right now.
It doesn't slow you down that much at all. My shield (Heavy Round Shield) slows my movement roughly 50% (combat movement, not sprint movement), plate armour almost nothing. This is just wrong.
Talking movement speed here, btw, although it should also get a bit a swing speed reduction. NOT wpf reduction, but swing speed reduction. Even with only 1 wpf and plate, one can swing too fast.
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My shield (Heavy Round Shield) slows my movement roughly 50%
Dude, if you're trying to prove a point, ridiculous exaggeration doesn't help...
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Dude, if you're trying to prove a point, ridiculous exaggeration doesn't help...
Dude, it's not exaggeration. That's the sad part :(
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Depends what do you mean by "combat movement", otherwise I call this bs.
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Depends what do you mean by "combat movement", otherwise I call this bs.
When you are running around attacking/blocking. The sprint speeds aren't that different. The combat speed is.
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When you are running around attacking/blocking. The sprint speeds aren't that different. The combat speed is.
IIRC everyone that is blocking is slowed down by about 50%, no matter the shield or no shield. You are extra slowed down by the weight of the shield, but that's not even close to losing 50% of the speed.
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When you are running around attacking/blocking. The sprint speeds aren't that different. The combat speed is.
I call bullshit, I've been using a shield and I had no problems keeping up with people.
Sure they weigh quite a lot but then:
1. It's not "dead" weight as heavy shield means thrust stun galore for the opponent
2. If you want to move quicker you can just grab a lighter shield (Elite cav is my fav, although just a regular cheap-ass round cav shield will hold up enough if you put it away when not needed) and tap-block.
It's very effective.
If you hold down that rmb you are going to move slower, but then that is true for all weapons.
EDIT: Vibe, I think it's ~17% for blocking and ~50% for backpeddaling.
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EDIT: Vibe, I think it's ~17% for blocking and ~50% for backpeddaling.
Oh right, I have mistaken backpeddaling values for blocking values :D
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IIRC everyone that is blocking is slowed down by about 50%, no matter the shield or no shield. You are extra slowed down by the weight of the shield, but that's not even close to losing 50% of the speed.
It's the extra speed from the shield I am talking about. And I am comparing the movement speed when you are fighting with a shield and when you are fighting without a shield. It's quite a lot. So much that's pretty stupid how much one is slowed down when you have a shield.
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It's the extra speed from the shield I am talking about. And I am comparing the movement speed when you are fighting with a shield and when you are fighting without a shield. It's quite a lot. So much that's pretty stupid how much one is slowed down when you have a shield.
I don't know about the shield you're using but when I used Elite Cavalry Shield I didn't feel slowed down at all.
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It doesn't slow you down that much at all. My shield (Heavy Round Shield) slows my movement roughly 50% (combat movement, not sprint movement), plate armour almost nothing. This is just wrong.
Talking movement speed here, btw, although it should also get a bit a swing speed reduction. NOT wpf reduction, but swing speed reduction. Even with only 1 wpf and plate, one can swing too fast.
If you dislike your shield so much you should try playing without it :P
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I don't know about the shield you're using but when I used Elite Cavalry Shield I didn't feel slowed down at all.
I use the Heavy Round Shield (7.5 weight), which is one of the heavier medium-weight shields . The Elite Cavalry Shield (5.5 weight) is one of the lighter middle-weight shields. So you're not as slowed down as I am, but you should have noticed a difference. Can you honestly say you you're not much faster without the shield? Not talking swing speed, block speed; just the movement speed (NOT sprinting speed).
EDIT:
If you dislike your shield so much you should try playing without it :P
Oh, I do Leshma. It's way easier and I can more kills and all. I changed to shielder because of strat (version 2) because we needed them and shields were still useful then. The reason I still stay as shielder is because of my random freezes, in which having the shield up have saved me so many times I can't count them. Used to be a polearm or polearm cav before I started getting those freezes. I miss that :(
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Made a video to demonstrate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN4H2AJgbC0
As can be seen, I'm actually running faster with the shield than with the poleaxe, probably due to weapon length mechanics.
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Made a video to demonstrate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN4H2AJgbC0
As can be seen, I'm actually running faster with the shield than with the poleaxe, probably due to weapon length mechanics.
Ya derp, you missed my point. I'm talking about having the shield at all. The weight's of the shield is the same whether you have them on the back or in your hand. What I am saying is that the shield weights are slowing you down so much its retarded. Try doing the same after dropping your shield. You'll be faster.
Also, you were doing sprinting tests there. Those are actually pretty much the same (although it still pisses me off how I get outrun by a tincan with a flamberge when I got my Brown Rus Lammelar and Shield). I am talking the movement you do when you are fighting someone. Not holding a block/attack up all the time, but trying to dart in and out of range and etc. You know, footwork.
PS: As you mentioned the weapon length mechanics regarding speed. Isn't it about time that 1handers get the same influence as pole/2h does? As Waltf4 found out, long 1handers slows you down more than long 2handers for some reason. Kinda derpy, but another discussion.
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Ya derp, you missed my point. I'm talking about having the shield at all. The weight's of the shield is the same whether you have them on the back or in your hand. What I am saying is that the shield weights are slowing you down so much its retarded. Try doing the same after dropping your shield. You'll be faster.
Also, you were doing sprinting tests there. Those are actually pretty much the same (although it still pisses me off how I get outrun by a tincan with a flamberge when I got my Brown Rus Lammelar and Shield). I am talking the movement you do when you are fighting someone. Not holding a block/attack up all the time, but trying to dart in and out of range and etc. You know, footwork.
PS: As you mentioned the weapon length mechanics regarding speed. Isn't it about time that 1handers get the same influence as pole/2h does? As Waltf4 found out, long 1handers slows you down more than long 2handers for some reason. Kinda derpy, but another discussion.
1h add 0.5 to their weapon weight, that's all.
And no, that was not a sprinting test, it was an accel test, char just barely goes into sprint over that distance.
Also, brb with a new vid.
Le vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UdZhoIv658
"Darting in and out of range" is the same thing as accelerating, just more difficult to show in a vid.
You having problems with that is probably due to the short range of 1h.
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Made a video to demonstrate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN4H2AJgbC0
As can be seen, I'm actually running faster with the shield than with the poleaxe, probably due to weapon length mechanics.
I have to admit that I dont see much difference in the vid. Seems almost the same speed in all combinations. I dont see any difference in speed during game if the weapon is sheated or not either.
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Shielder´s are fine thx to a certain 1h dev :lol:
I wouldn´t mind being a shielder i just hate the fact that i allways grow bored of being a shielder rly fast thx to no manuel blocking
EDIT: wait wasn't :!: this a thread about upkeep?? :|