Author Topic: Leave or stay in the EU?  (Read 78799 times)

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Offline Tibes

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1020 on: July 04, 2016, 08:42:47 am »
+1
Once again you're comparing a super-nationally appointed commission to a democratically elected parliament. It's not a matter of reading comprehension because what you stated was false information to start with. EU legislation is not comparable to EU member state national legislation and that's just fact. EU member state national MP's are allowed to propose legislation, EU parliament members are not.

Whats so undemocratic about it? Technically Kafein is right. A commissioner is elected into the  commission by each state. That is democratic. What dont you like about it? I dont understand why do you keep saying that they arent elected. They clearly are. And they cant serve a single nations or persons interest, so you comparing this to US president appointing his own governments power to whoever he likes is most retarded and couldnt be any more false. So tell me mr "its undemocratic", whose purpose, other than the unions, could they possibly serve if the commission is incapable of serving a single person or nation? A corporations? If every country elects a commissioner who works for Apple than clearly the whole Europe wants to be enslaved by Apple. And we all made that choice democratically.

I still completely do not understand what you do not like. A democratic government of a member state elects a commissioner. That guys all ties to its former government are technically removed. It can only serve the Union. Thats it. And what about those ties to commerce and industry sectors? Those are practically worthless. If over half of the commission has the exactly same ties than thats some reason to be concerned. But that is incredibly unlikely. Because each commissioner comes for each different democratically elected government. If the majority of the EU commission is a fraud, most of the democratic governments of Europe are frauds too, in which case it doesnt really matter anymore, does it. :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: July 04, 2016, 09:12:00 am by Tibes »

Offline Grytviken

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1021 on: July 04, 2016, 09:40:13 am »
0
Whats so undemocratic about it? Technically Kafein is right. A commissioner is elected into the  commission by each state. That is democratic. What dont you like about it? I dont understand why do you keep saying that they arent elected. They clearly are. And they cant serve a single nations or persons interest, so you comparing this to US president appointing his own governments power to whoever he likes is most retarded and couldnt be any more false. So tell me mr "its undemocratic", whose purpose, other than the unions, could they possibly serve if the commission is incapable of serving a single person or nation? A corporations? If every country elects a commissioner who works for Apple than clearly the whole Europe wants to be enslaved by Apple. And we all made that choice democratically.

I still completely do not understand what you do not like. A democratic government of a member state elects a commissioner. That guys all ties to its former government are technically removed. It can only serve the Union. Thats it. And what about those ties to commerce and industry sectors? Those are practically worthless. If over half of the commission has the exactly same ties than thats some reason to be concerned. But that is incredibly unlikely. Because each commissioner comes for each different democratically elected government. If the majority of the EU commission is a fraud, most of the democratic governments of Europe are frauds too, in which case it doesnt really matter anymore, does it. :rolleyes:



 The EU commission is not elected, they are appointed by the EU council then approved by a EU Parliament majority vote. There is no democratic process involved in appointing them and they hold all of the major power in the EU legislation process. It's very much different from national legislation where elected officials who represent the public are allowed to propose laws, and more concerning because EU law supersedes national law. The EU legislation process undermines the democratic process of it's member state's national governments.


http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-european-union-and-comments/title-3-provisions-on-the-institutions/86-article-17.html


2. Union legislative acts may only be adopted on the basis of a Commission proposal, except where the Treaties provide otherwise. Other acts shall be adopted on the basis of a Commission proposal where the Treaties so provide.

7.

The Council, by common accord with the President-elect, shall adopt the list of the other persons whom it proposes for appointment as members of the Commission.

The President, the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy and the other members of the Commission shall be subject as a body to a vote of consent by the European Parliament. On the basis of this consent the Commission shall be appointed by the European Council, acting by a qualified majority.

« Last Edit: July 04, 2016, 10:13:18 am by Grytviken »

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1022 on: July 04, 2016, 10:10:11 am »
0

Offline Grytviken

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1023 on: July 04, 2016, 10:56:18 am »
0
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inference

Yes he's inferring that appointment by a council is the same as being democratically elected by the public, I don't agree and can definitely see why the UK didn't want it's own democracy and laws undermined by this supernational process.

Offline Falka

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1024 on: July 04, 2016, 11:01:20 am »
+1
In germany and italy presidents are appointed by parliament, not chosen in general election. Does it mean it's undemocratic?
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Offline Paul

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1025 on: July 04, 2016, 11:34:40 am »
+5
FFS, he's from a great country where you can directly vote your local sheriff or judge(what can possibly go wrong?) into office. If he shares his wisdom about democracy you punks gotta shut up and listen.

Offline Tibes

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1026 on: July 04, 2016, 11:42:11 am »
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uuugh...Grytviken my man you might really have reading comprehension. The EU is and is being accused of being plenty of bad things. One thing its definately not, is undemocratic. Anyone who claims otherwise is quite simply wrong and should really look up his facts a bit more.

All that stuff you misunderstood im not even gonna bother to explain. Quite simply put it doesnt matter who or what elects the commission really. Whose gaining anything from meddling with the commission? Who? If the commission has to have each member from different state they sure as hell are not gonna even bother to look up the bill of "lets give everything to Poland". The commission has no other option but serve only the Union. It cant do anything else. And in serving the Union, they serve the nations under it too. Its not the Kremlin or the Bush administration.

Offline LordBerenger

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1027 on: July 04, 2016, 11:42:35 am »
+2
Well Nigel Fuckage just resigned as UKIP Führer. Lel
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Offline Paul

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1028 on: July 04, 2016, 11:51:08 am »
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Well Nigel Fuckage just resigned as UKIP Führer. Lel

Maybe he's pulling a Putin/Erdogan and going solo to be eligible for the Queen spot.

Offline tizzango

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1029 on: July 04, 2016, 11:53:11 am »
+4

Offline SixThumbs

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1030 on: July 04, 2016, 12:32:03 pm »
+1
Even the prostitutes are going to suffer before UK falls into the sea!

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/526919/Hordes-eastern-European-Union-prostitutes-charging-10-flood-UK-Brexit-close-borders

(click to show/hide)
And how!

Offline Falka

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1031 on: July 04, 2016, 12:50:46 pm »
0
(click to show/hide)
Quote

"I work hard – seven days a week.

"I work 24/7 but more ladies coming from back home will not be good for me here.

"They will be sleeping with men for just £10."

Anna revealed that she charges £30 for a 20-minute "quickie" or £50 for an hour of sexual services.

"More and more girls coming just means one thing – lower prices.

"I work hard at my job and I've got regular clients who will pay me £80-an-hour but that won't go for everyone.

"Blokes already shop around – going from one girl to another to see who's the cheapest."

Price matters, but there should be some limits.
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Offline SixThumbs

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1032 on: July 04, 2016, 12:57:57 pm »
+1
It is economic law of course; the worse the economy gets the cheaper, and better looking, the prostitutes become.
And how!

Offline Overdriven

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1033 on: July 04, 2016, 01:20:44 pm »
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uuugh...Grytviken my man you might really have reading comprehension. The EU is and is being accused of being plenty of bad things. One thing its definately not, is undemocratic. Anyone who claims otherwise is quite simply wrong and should really look up his facts a bit more.


Unfortunately that was one of the main arguments of the leave camp.

Offline Tibes

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1034 on: July 04, 2016, 02:00:39 pm »
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Which was quite simply put wrong. Almost all pro-leave arguments were nothing short of utterly retarded and straight up lying. Like being displeased about following EU regulations on certain goods. I dont see how leaving is gonna help. If you wanna trade with EU you gonna have to follow them anyway.

I have to honestly admit, Brexit was even dumber than Trump and im slowly thinking about communism. Its becoming more imminent that a democratic society with lacking proper education will eventually shoot itself in the foot for no apparent reason. There wasnt a single real reason to even discuss Brexit, let alone pass it.