cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Uther Pendragon on July 04, 2017, 11:31:32 pm

Title: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Uther Pendragon on July 04, 2017, 11:31:32 pm
Hello! Over the past few weeks, I'm sure most of you (namely NA because that is what is active lol) experienced 2 things: NA1 and inconsistent admin actions regarding certain rule transgressions. Hopefully this will get changed now)

Main thing I'd like to adress is our admin's team stance on racist slurs in chat, and in general chat abuse. For the longest time, the general idea was "react to worst offenders, otherwise wait untill a complaint lands", but recently we've come to terms that it's a shit position and we need more concrete, unified guideline on how to react to those problems. We've had many different situations arise that were problematic - what about words like "nigga", or what about using slurs while talking to your friends, where it seemingly doesn't hurt anyone intentionally? Certain cases from our community are the cause why we can't have nice things, so we have to put a stop to some of those practices, even if not all of them were harmful.

The official server rules (http://forum.melee.org/announcements/official-server-rules/) are getting slightly changed - the racism paragraph will be extended to contain more specific examples of what is wrong and what is not.
It'll read as following:
FAQ:
Q - Does it mean we cannot say nigga anymore? That's not offensive in all meanings and is a part of culture!
A - No, it means that if someone is being a smartass and writes whatever offensive sentence he wanted to write earlier, but replaces "friend" with "nigga", despite his superior intellect he'll not escape the consequences.

Keep in mind, the common sense rule still applies - finding a new way to be an idiot is not gonna end well for possible rule breakers.

Above all else, remember: this is a game, people hop in here and want to play it, kill other players, and have a nice time, if they come here purely to spam obscenities, and not play the game, they are not welcome here.

Regarding the admin guidelines, if an admin is present while the mentioned above rule breaking would take place, their first step should be to remind and warn the player that what they are doing is against the rules. Next, if the behaviour doesn't stop, they should be muted or kicked or banned for a short amount of time (read: 30 minutes or 1 hour), but only kicked or banned if a mute wouldn't have solved the situation. Muting is the prefered way of dealing with the situation. If the player continues to break the rules despite recieving a warning and the first punishment, admins should ban them for a period of time anywhere between 1 hour and 24 hours, in extreme cases more if it's deemed that a shorter time out would not solve the problem.

Repeat offenders who show no hope of improvement can be subject to a much harsher punishment, including but not limited to: longer bans, permament bans, character removal.

FAQ vol. 2:
Q: But no one complains about it!
A: Because many times, people don't bother complaining - they just leave the server. Many potential new players expressed their disgust with the enviroment they have found on the servers, and said it was the main or one of the reasons that they wouldn't continue playing.

Q: This won't work, people will continue being insensitive with their slurs and will flame on. Being banned for 24h tops is nothing to most of them.
A: This will work, because the aim is to deter people from behaving like little children in the first place. If someone doesn't stop and will continue to act like a troublemaker, he'll recieve a much longer timeout, or possibly another fitting punishment.

Q - muh freedom of spee-
A - This is a free mod to a game, worked on by enthusiasts who hate seeing people use excuses like "freedom of speech" to justify their obnoxious behaviour. If you come here purely to spite us, or to use it as a safe space so you can shout racist slurs seemingly without fear of consequences, this ends now.

That would be all for now, thank you for reading, if you have any further questions, feel free to ask. Ultimately, we don't want to make this game any less fun than it is, we just refuse to agree that this sort of behaviour is in any way fun, quite the opposite - it takes from the enjoyment of the game for some players when they see how toxic server enviroment appears to them.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: N1PS on July 04, 2017, 11:42:57 pm
Happy 4th
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Rando on July 04, 2017, 11:43:41 pm
gay
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: njames89 on July 05, 2017, 12:33:15 am
Much needed. It is signed.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Saxton on July 05, 2017, 12:38:07 am
HE SAID

friend

BAN HIM
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Uther Pendragon on July 05, 2017, 12:48:06 am
You can't be racist against white people

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on July 05, 2017, 01:00:07 am
i'd like to state for the record that i am completely ignorant on all racial slurs and am extremely accident-prone

it is not my fault, it is a condition

thank you for your understanding

addendum: i would like my ban reason changed to islamophobia, as I used no slur in the post that warranted my mute; only a jibe directed towards the UK's policy on strictly policing much of their citizenry's online and IRL speech on immigration and related issues, also a seinfeld reference
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Thryn on July 05, 2017, 01:16:39 am
ya i think we deserve an explanation regarding the following:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


as in someone took jacko's account and muted the living shit out of anyone who disagreed with them

as in if you say it's a glitch you're full of shit


edit 1: sorry if it sounds hostile, i guess it is
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Uther Pendragon on July 05, 2017, 01:52:05 am
snip

Of course you do, except there's nothing we can explain it with currently, which is why there was no information from us so far, once there is - you sure as hell are getting an explaination, but it's not my choice when that will happen, since Dupre is still looking into it.)) It's a glitch for now, for what it's worth. :wink:
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Thryn on July 05, 2017, 01:53:53 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Yuang on July 05, 2017, 02:00:20 am
These rules come just in time. :wink:
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Westwood on July 05, 2017, 02:04:30 am
Well uh, all I did was advocate for criminal justice reform via slur decriminalization and call a leftist parasite a cuck. I don't really care for racial epithets but legit question, homophobia is still ok right?

Asking for my friend Mike "putting the amp in straight camp" Pence.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Thryn on July 05, 2017, 02:13:23 am
Mike "putting the amp in straight camp" Pence.

Is that the same Mike "if you like it in the crapper, you get the zapper" Pence?

Mike "7.62 for LGBTQ" Pence
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on July 05, 2017, 02:13:31 am
friend

Mute this white supremacist.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Drunken_sailor on July 05, 2017, 02:27:32 am
Well uh, all I did was advocate for criminal justice reform via slur decriminalization and call a leftist parasite a cuck.

just you wait until the liberal world politic is implemented, we will reincarnate the marques de sade and crown him supreme ruler, you and your original sin closet homophile neanderthal repubdicks will be hung from their pubes.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Westwood on July 05, 2017, 02:35:22 am
Is that the same Mike "if you like it in the crapper, you get the zapper" Pence?

Mike "7.62 for LGBTQ" Pence
Yeah, Mike "stray from God's path, feel Tesla's wrath" Pence

Mike "ignite the sodomite" Pence

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: ironfox on July 05, 2017, 03:06:59 am
Wow, years of slavery and I still can't use my people's word.... :cry:
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on July 05, 2017, 05:25:00 am
I for one welcome our new admin overlords!


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Asheram on July 05, 2017, 05:54:35 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Sparvico on July 05, 2017, 07:28:08 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Nightingale on July 05, 2017, 08:03:01 am
How bizzare.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Sparvico on July 05, 2017, 09:00:28 am
How bizzare.

Desire be like

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Ikarus on July 05, 2017, 09:27:45 am
thereĀ“s not much slurring going on on EU, but damn, NA had a lot of angry people going on lately (and in other games its usually the US servers which have quite a focus on proper language)

Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: MURDERTRON on July 05, 2017, 09:31:07 am
Would you please stop pushing the liberal agenda?  Trump won fair and square, it's over.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Sparvico on July 05, 2017, 10:46:25 am
Would you please stop pushing the liberal agenda?  Trump won fair and square, it's over.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Bittersteel on July 05, 2017, 11:38:28 am
Do the jews play a part in this?
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: IR_Kuoin on July 05, 2017, 12:54:30 pm
Do the jews play a part in this?

The admins are funded by George Soros
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Drunken_sailor on July 05, 2017, 03:28:40 pm
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Westwood on July 05, 2017, 05:13:27 pm
There are some wetlands in the lot next to my house that are fucking me, you wanna join in?
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Drunken_sailor on July 05, 2017, 06:14:07 pm
I'm guessing you don't have wetlands and you're most likley regurgitating rhetoric...

but just in case, most states publish solid guides for wetland management, and wetlands are good to plant high value trees like hardwoods or nut trees next to, since you do not have to water them.  You could even plant some wild-rice, arrowroot, or a plethora of other foods and save monies on groceries.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Gravoth_iii on July 05, 2017, 06:29:23 pm
Can we please ban some words like "noob", or using "peasant" in a offensive manner. Even "scrub" and "bitch" gets to me, please keep chat clean so i can have a good time again.


On a serious point though, force people to speak american. EU1 is always a 50/50 on entering, either you will see french or turkish. Its wack.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Westwood on July 05, 2017, 09:09:26 pm
I'm guessing you don't have wetlands and you're most likley regurgitating rhetoric...

but just in case, most states publish solid guides for wetland management, and wetlands are good to plant high value trees like hardwoods or nut trees next to, since you do not have to water them.  You could even plant some wild-rice, arrowroot, or a plethora of other foods and save monies on groceries.

(click to show/hide)
I mean, I'm just meming you but there are really wetlands in the lot next to my house. Lot is like a half acre, and there's a little shitty strip of wetlands in the Southwest corner of it, full of mosquitoes and old tires. Apparently that fucks up development for like half of it, if I recall correctly it means a septic tank couldn't be put in for any housing that gets built there (although I may be remembering incorrectly and that could have been because of other shitty lot reasons).

It's a tiny little fucker of a wetland though. Ain't no beavers or anything, just those tires.

Regardless I will look into the State of Washington's recommendations on what to do with my government-retarded land, thank you.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Asheram on July 05, 2017, 09:43:38 pm
Can we please ban some words like "noob", or using "peasant" in a offensive manner. Even "scrub" and "bitch" gets to me, please keep chat clean so i can have a good time again.


On a serious point though, force people to speak american. EU1 is always a 50/50 on entering, either you will see french or turkish. Its wack.
also ban my old friendchar and agiwhore
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Mallets on July 05, 2017, 10:44:33 pm
Part 1

Hey Uther... really good post!

And even though I'd love to see more freedom in chat... I can't fault the Devs for this decision.  Drawing a hard line in the sand means that you have to police Admins less... because they can be more stern... and just say that it falls in the rules.  I don't agree with it.  But I understand that's probably impossible for Devs to police Admins.  Or at least it's too time-consuming... taking away your time from developing the mod.

Part 2

So can't blame you guys!  But I do hope that the admin group would be looked at thoroughly... just the same as you guys are looking that the actual mod itself.  Maybe reform the admin group.  Doesn't mean that the same guys can't be Admins.  But I'm sure over the years... all kind of folks have had all kinds of permissions.  Maybe that can be re-balanced and re-issued.

And I do hope some is policing the badmins!  Just the same as why we need admins!  People get out of control... are can be just plain idiots.  Admins are people and can do the same.  Hopefully someone is admin-ing the admins.

Part 3

So with racial themes being taken away from chat... what about homophobic?  I'd tend to say that we have more Transgender players than black players.  I know we do.  And new players are more likely to be transgender or homosexuals than they are black.  So if we are worried about losing new players... why not address homo slurs?

While we are at it... why not ban any cultural references?  Political references?  Gender references (sexist comments)?

Here's a big one... Pedophillia references!  I've seen more jokes about 12 year old Asians and Turkish boys than anything.  Yet everyone thinks this is ok!

Another big one... the word "retard".  Everyone says that.  But I know folks with handicap kids that are extremely offended by this term.  So should be ban the word "Retard" from our chat.  It's equally offensive (non-offensive) as any racial term.


Now for the record... I think it's ok as well.  I think all of that is ok to be honest.  Just trying to understand where the line is drawn.

Why is the line being drawn against folks who like to make racial references... as opposed to players who use language against other groups?


Closing Statement

With all that said... I know that this game is managed by the Devs.  Essentially, it's their property.  I respect their right to manage it in any way they see fit.  cRPG is a private enterprise... and it should have the freedom to be managed by it's proprietors in any way they see fit.  So in the end... as mentioned at the beginning of this post... I respect Uther's post!  And I certainly respect his time taken in writing and clarifying the devs thoughts.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Westwood on July 05, 2017, 11:36:00 pm
Maybe reform the admin group.  Doesn't mean that the same guys can't be Admins.  But I'm sure over the years... all kind of folks have had all kinds of permissions.  Maybe that can be re-balanced and re-issued.
Yeah make me an admin. Now seeking vouches.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Horns on July 05, 2017, 11:50:49 pm
Part 1

Hey Uther... really good post!

And even though I'd love to see more freedom in chat... I can't fault the Devs for this decision.  Drawing a hard line in the sand means that you have to police Admins less... because they can be more stern... and just say that it falls in the rules.  I don't agree with it.  But I understand that's probably impossible for Devs to police Admins.  Or at least it's too time-consuming... taking away your time from developing the mod.

Part 2

So can't blame you guys!  But I do hope that the admin group would be looked at thoroughly... just the same as you guys are looking that the actual mod itself.  Maybe reform the admin group.  Doesn't mean that the same guys can't be Admins.  But I'm sure over the years... all kind of folks have had all kinds of permissions.  Maybe that can be re-balanced and re-issued.

And I do hope some is policing the badmins!  Just the same as why we need admins!  People get out of control... are can be just plain idiots.  Admins are people and can do the same.  Hopefully someone is admin-ing the admins.

Part 3

So with racial themes being taken away from chat... what about homophobic?  I'd tend to say that we have more Transgender players than black players.  I know we do.  And new players are more likely to be transgender or homosexuals than they are black.  So if we are worried about losing new players... why not address homo slurs?

While we are at it... why not ban any cultural references?  Political references?  Gender references (sexist comments)?

Here's a big one... Pedophillia references!  I've seen more jokes about 12 year old Asians and Turkish boys than anything.  Yet everyone thinks this is ok!

Another big one... the word "retard".  Everyone says that.  But I know folks with handicap kids that are extremely offended by this term.  So should be ban the word "Retard" from our chat.  It's equally offensive (non-offensive) as any racial term.


Now for the record... I think it's ok as well.  I think all of that is ok to be honest.  Just trying to understand where the line is drawn.  Why is the line being drawn against folks who like to make racial references... as opposed to players who use language against other groups.


Closing Statement

With all that said... I know that this game is managed by the Devs.  Essentially, it's their property.  I respect their right to manage it in any way they seem fit.  cRPG is a private enterprise... and it should have the freedom to be managed by it's proprietors in any way they see fit.  So in the end... as mentioned at the beginning of this post... I respect Uther's post!  And I certainly respect his time taken in writing and clarifying the devs thoughts.

Why is it that you act so respectful when you are defending racism but can't manage it at other times? If you acted like this post reads we wouldn't have to draw lines in the first place. Sad...
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Bittersteel on July 05, 2017, 11:53:33 pm
Mallets is right. Go all the way while you're at it. My brother is both homosexual and has a cognitive disability and so I take great offense when the chat is spammed with 'bundle of sticks' and 'retarded' which is even more frequent then any racial comments, atleast on EU.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Uther Pendragon on July 06, 2017, 01:42:29 am
snip

Let me just state beforehand that I am not going to discuss this particular rule with you as this is not some debate or academic setting where we're contesting ideas - it's a free mod in which the devs and admins have given me a free hand to reshape this specific rule as I see fit in order to combat a rising and troublesoume tendency in NA servers that was reported to me by both admins and players, and also frequently posted on forums (alone during those 2 weeks I saw 2 collages of NA chat being uncivilized). Therefore I made an authoritarian use of my power and did as I pleased, naturally asking for opinion from a few other admins and Dupre, but in the end, it was not a democratically or openly discussed change. We want to uphold a certain standard in this mod, but it goes beyond that in my opinion.

The rule itself is not up to debate and I appreciate that you can respect it, and to be honest even if you're lowkey baiting me you raise a valid point so let me go in hook, line and sinker.

I'll try to explain my reasoning without sounding like a cunt, thought as long as I get my point across that's irrelevant to me))

Your question actually inspired me a bit to look into why I treated racism and homophobia differently, only expanding upon the racism rules - and I also ignored things like sexism, pedophilia jokes, transphobic jokes.

I'm a hypocrite here, as yes, I don't treat those forms of discrimination equally, as you can clearly see from my OP. I believe I have my good reasons for that, and that in the end, the result will be a net positive, at the very least the situation will not become worse.

To start off, there's a reason why the rule itself remained unchanged for so long, and for the longest time, we thought it was enough that it said "No abuse of in-game chat (racism, insulting, griefing, spamming...)", because it was simple, and concise. So what was the problem? That it had probably 100 meanings according to 100 people. Such is the issue with seemingly "simple" rules. I felt the need to make it more precise, with the intention to cull a rising trend of frequent usage of racist slurs in NA servers. I know there are other slurs in use, but the quantity of racist ones was a bit shocking to me at first.

Ramsey Clark wrote a simple yet profound paragraph once regarding why having rules or laws is almost never enough, and I'll quote him: "The law can only express a goal. It cannot fulfill that goal. We impose too much on the law because it seems easy to say that something shall be and then expect it to be. But life does not work that way; it never did and it never will. It takes people and institutions and hard work to make things so. "

I didn't expand on that rule because I believe it'll end the discrimination issue once and for all in cRPG; I wrote it hoping to start some tendency, a possibility for change of the behaviour of people in cRPG. As Clark wrote, it requires people, institutions and hard work to make things so. Laws and rules shouldn't never be reduced to just being scarecrows for people - they should teach, show how to act, and guide them.

My main reason for tackling racism alone is the practical reason - there's just a much higher quantity of racist content in chat compared to other types of slurs or chat abuse, and I'd wager to say that majority of mutes and bans ever handed out for chat abuse were due to racism. Of course, it could also mean that possible chat abuse that didn't include racism wasn't as reported, or was possibly ignored or downplayed, but I'm not omnipotent to know that. It is however fair to assume that not everything is treated as equally "bad".
Also, related to this, is that racism is much less ingrained in the online culture than, say, words like "bundle of sticks" or "retard". I think it's important to not let it grow roots now, while we still can firmly stand against it, in turn putting up with the homophobia and other forms of discrimination.

I am not a fan of this status quo, but let's be frank here with each other - some offensive words have became part of the online gaming culture, and I am not going to wage war on that, instead I want to target something that I find inexcusable.

Not related to multiplayer gaming at all, but racism is, along with sexism, one of the "easier" forms of discrimination. You don't need to know much about the other person - it's enough to see them once and if you know their skin colour, your racist tendencies can arise, unlike say making fun of their sexual orientation which would require you to know a little more about them.

Another thing is that racism and sexism is hating a person for things they have absolutely no power over - you do not choose your sex, you do not choose your skin colour. I know the same thing can be said about your sexual orientation and other traits like mental condition et all, but those two stand out as something that you cannot hide - again, it does not completely apply to online interactions as you can just keep your mouth shut and never mention either of those things.

We talk of what we can do - "we', as in the admins. But what can you do? Change starts at the bottom, with the players in this case, showing that they are not ok with behaviour that contradicts the rules. Insulting is already against the rules, must we go into detail here as well and list out all the instances in which insulting is "indeed, not ok"? We can, but remember what I said earlier - law can never fulfill a goal. It can express it, it can express it much more clearly, or leave it open to interpretation. I decided to narrow it down in case of racist slurs, but that's it, at least for now. I had my practical reasons to do this, and trust me, I wish I didn't have to do it. I'd much rather leave the field open to admin interpretation to avoid silly situations in which a concrete rule causes a illogical situation, but sometimes we just can't have nice things.

I don't want to delve into human dignity in this wall of text, it's a very expansive subject with many contradictory points of views which don't make as much sense in online setting. I hope at least some of that made sense to you, in the end, it is (I want to believe) an adequate response to a problem. It's not a solve-it-all, but it's a start. However the rest is not up to me, it's up to you guys.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on July 06, 2017, 01:48:17 am
I would like to refer back here to Sandy's account signature.


Quote from: TO_XBF on September 21, 2015, 12:18:20 PM
the administrator of this forum is the Internet Keyboard man? Can only play "authority" in the virtual world?Can you tell me why?
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Westwood on July 06, 2017, 01:59:50 am
... you do not choose your sex, you do not choose your skin colour. I know the same thing can be said about your sexual orientation...
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Kadeth on July 06, 2017, 02:12:58 am
me reading the guidelines

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


when i realise i can still call the yanks cheeseburgers

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Drunken_sailor on July 06, 2017, 02:51:26 am
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Mallets on July 06, 2017, 03:13:37 am
snip

Hey Uther... great response man!  And for the record... I truly wasn't baiting.  Nor was I pushing you to have to explain yourself.

With that said, I do appreciate that you did.  I appreciate your honesty on your views between racism and homophobia.

And as mentioned in my post above... I respect that cRPG is private property.  It's running should be done so at the will of those that own it (the devs).  I don't mean that as any sly remark.  That's my honest opinion.  Even if I disagree with some of the rules... I respect it's the devs right to make the rules.  Not just because they physically hold the power... but because I believe as a private entity... it's your god-given right as the owners to make the rules.

And thus I respect your rules.  Truly.  And on a personal note, I respect the fact that you took the time to explain yourself.

Just they same... as with anything that folks want to see done... folks must fight for it (so to say).  Wanting to see some kind of change, whatever that maybe in whatever realm of things... folks must voice their opinion.  Thus I kept sharing my opinion why I wanted chat to be lax.

In the end... the rules are the rules... and they've been clearly laid out.  Folks should respect them.  Or if not, expect following punishment.  Which some may find worth the offense (that's their prerogative... as it is yours to punish them).

With that said... I do hope folks can keep sharing their opinions on the forum... on whatever topics... as long as they are civil... and not be punished for those civil opinions.  Which I believe you devs are ok with... since you revoked all the recent forum bans.  Which is much appreciated!

Again, I appreciate the lengthy response.  I truly wasn't baiting for it.  Just sharing my two cents!  And namely typing because I like these forums and sharing my thoughts on them.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Uther Pendragon on July 06, 2017, 03:18:32 am
snap

The forum mutes weren't intentional, for now it's a glitch in the system untill Dupre knows more for certain)) And those rules are in-game rules specifically, forum rules remain untouched.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Seadle on July 06, 2017, 03:39:05 am
(click to show/hide)

Late reply, but you can thank my brother for the collage he worked like an hour on it.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Mallets on July 06, 2017, 03:40:54 am
Why is it that you act so respectful when you are defending racism but can't manage it at other times? If you acted like this post reads we wouldn't have to draw lines in the first place. Sad...

Part 1

Horns, I respect your thoughts on it.  But I think you miss a lot of folks view on the matter.  They are not wanting to defend racism.  They want to defend the right to free chat.  Because as mentioned many times, folks have been banned just because an admin wants to find fault.  Folks have been banned for saying someone is ugly.  An Admin just has to say... that's hate speech and ban someone.  That's crazy!

Many of us are worried that Admins aren't policed.  Each admin can act on their own will without consequence.  Or at least that's how it seems.

And while I'm sure that if someone is banned for a ridiculous reason (like saying someone is ugly)... I'm sure they can simply make a post and be unbanned.  But will that admin be reprimanded in any way?  I think most of us think "no".

So for me... the way to avoid these poor judgement calls (over chat) by admins... is to totally free up chat!  But that's just my opinion... and I certainly respect the rules laid out.

Part 2

But on to your point on why I don't act so respectful all the time (only when I'm defending racism).  Just because I defend folks right to say racist things... why do you assume I'm so dis-respectful in-game.  I have never been banned.  I may make the odd joke.  But I've never tried to push things too far.

I have a my own sense of humor (as each person does).  I find a lot of dark things comical.  Does that make me a dis-respectful person?  I don't know.  Maybe.  But is Blazing Saddles dis-respectful?  Is Django Unchained dis-respectful?  Just because one can find racist themes funny... doesn't mean they are a dis-respectful person.  I'd never call an actual black person a derogatory term.  Nor would I say to a handicap person a derogatory term.  But I can find the humor in a joke that may be about black people or the handicap.  Is that wrong... maybe?  But if so... we'd not have any comedians in our society.  To me... political correctness is not a good thing.  It seems that nearly all comics agree.  Why do I bring up comedians?  Well, because I like to laugh.  And who know more about laughter than comedians.  If they think political correctness a negative to humor... well they should know.  With that said... attacking a person is wrong.  I certainly agree with that.  But making a politically in-correct statement is not wrong to me.

Of course... that's just my opinion.  Which I certainly know only goes so far.  You devs make the rules... and I truly respect that.  As I also respect all ya'lls hard work.  And I believe I respect others opinions.  But respecting someone doesn't mean you agree with them.  I don't think you are dis-respecting me just because you dis-agree with me.  Why would you think I dis-respec a group of people (maybe a race) just because I like to laugh and hear (and say) crazy funny things.  I understand that some folks don't find it funny.  But I also understand that many folks do find it funny.  Who's right?  Hell I don't know.  But respect and being in agreement are two different matters.  At least to me.

Personally, I will always pick the side of more open-ness and freedom... even if I disagree with the matters at hand.

In the end... the rules are set.  I will be following them... or will gladly accept any punishment.  But as mentioned above... I do hope that folks can keep openly sharing their opinions here on the forums... as long as they stay civil.

And lastly... if this is said enough... I do appreciate you guys bring this mod back... and all your hard work involved.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Mallets on July 06, 2017, 03:42:16 am
The forum mutes weren't intentional, for now it's a glitch in the system untill Dupre knows more for certain)) And those rules are in-game rules specifically, forum rules remain untouched.

Thanks Uther!  I do appreciate all the hard work!
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: chesterotab on July 06, 2017, 03:50:58 am
With this new line drawn in the sand, crpg population is sure to grow.

Can we still talk about killing Turks/kebabs and talk down to Greeks for not being responsible? That's a staple of this mod I personally could not live without.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Saxton on July 06, 2017, 04:32:35 am
Can we all accept that my profile signature is superior to all of yours.

I mean, cmon, letzbhonest.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Molly on July 06, 2017, 07:57:33 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Torben on July 06, 2017, 08:18:38 am
Mallets!  Dude.  I enjoy reading your posts,  but godamnit. Dont use as many "...",  you arent a crazy blushing japanese schoolgirl after all...  or are you?  "semi boner activated"
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: SyderOne on July 06, 2017, 08:51:55 am
Hello........whats.....................going.................on?
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Ikarus on July 06, 2017, 09:04:27 am
Mallets!  Dude.  I enjoy reading your posts,  but godamnit. Dont use as many "...",  you arent a crazy blushing japanese schoolgirl after all...  or are you?  "semi boner activated"

or even better

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Simon. on July 06, 2017, 09:50:14 am
for every certain amount of active players we should elect people who write the rules

give us representation

no more police state

elect me to represent you in the 1st congress and defend your right to free speech
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Bronto on July 06, 2017, 01:45:23 pm
for every certain amount of active players we should elect people who write the rules

give us representation

no more police state

elect me to represent you in the 1st congress and defend your right to free speech

I'm sorry simon but if we're electing any type of representative we need crpg's official attorney, Penitent.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Mallets on July 06, 2017, 03:17:27 pm
Mallets!  Dude.  I enjoy reading your posts,  but godamnit. Dont use as many "...",  you arent a crazy blushing japanese schoolgirl after all...  or are you?  "semi boner activated"

Hahahaha!  Yeah, I hate commas.  But need to use them more instead of the ellipses (...).  I don't use the ellipses properly, I know.

Dammit!  Had to erase my ellipses in the sentence above between properly and I to add a comma.  Feels so wrong!

And it's the summer, so currently I'm not a schoolgirl...    :P
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Gnjus on July 06, 2017, 07:01:27 pm
(namely NA because that is what is active lol)

Which makes it even weirder that you're still actually trying with this shit.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Asheram on July 06, 2017, 07:06:05 pm
Mallets!  Dude.  I enjoy reading your posts,  but godamnit. Dont use as many "...",  you arent a crazy blushing japanese schoolgirl after all...  or are you?  "semi boner activated"
Mallets confirmed visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Mallets on July 06, 2017, 09:09:40 pm
You caught me!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Macropus on July 07, 2017, 11:56:10 am
Mallets!  Dude.  I enjoy reading your posts,  but godamnit. Dont use as many "...",  you arent a crazy blushing japanese schoolgirl after all...  or are you?  "semi boner activated"
Holy shit mate, I was just about to warn Mallets about his "..." per post ratio getting dangerously close to RasFrenzy's.
I always knew kangaroos can do telepathy.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on July 07, 2017, 07:02:09 pm
In honor of this thread, I have changed my STF character's name and theme to 'black in spanishdamus_the_Blackest_Mage'.

If there were a movie about him, the poster tagline would go

"Jesus may have turned water into wine
But he can turn anything into purple drank"
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Thryn on July 07, 2017, 08:55:00 pm
In honor of this thread, I have changed my STF character's name and theme to 'black in spanishdamus_the_Blackest_Mage'.

If there were a movie about him, the poster tagline would go

"Jesus may have turned water into wine
But he can turn anything into purple drank"


funny name, but you have now subjected yourself to the social justice inquisition that the admin team has created so that they can openly jerk off to the banning of retards
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on July 07, 2017, 08:59:18 pm
funny name, but you have now subjected yourself to the social justice inquisition that the admin team has created so that they can openly jerk off to the banning of retards

I am ready to be the holiest of martyrs.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Macropus on July 07, 2017, 09:37:48 pm
On topic, my stance might be a bit controvertial, but I think only bundle of stickss get offended by bad words.
If you call me a drunk russian krimea-occupying friend, I might think you're an idiot and an asshole, but in no way would I suffer from hearing/reading those words.
Having said that, though, banning idiots and assholes is not a bad thing either.

So, eh... I need to go have some sleep before I'm ready to draw any kind of conclusion from that.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Thryn on July 07, 2017, 10:56:56 pm
On topic, my stance might be a bit controvertial, but I think only bundle of stickss get offended by bad words.
If you call me a drunk russian krimea-occupying friend, I might think you're an idiot and an asshole, but in no way would I suffer from hearing/reading those words.
Having said that, though, banning idiots and assholes is not a bad thing either.

So, eh... I need to go have some sleep before I'm ready to draw any kind of conclusion from that.

ur right tho, i think the admins have deluded themselves with the idea that they have to protect the servers by filtering the internet; an impossible task that cannot be accomplished. i think the best way of stopping people from experiencing "racism" is by having a button  to mute (which we have) whatever asshole is typing slurs in chat. the idea of "creating a safe environment for new players" is bullshit, if people are so dumb as to think an entire mod is racist because they see one idiot in chat and therefore they stop playing, fuck em. real reason players don't continue on is the learning curve or maybe they just don't like it.

plus, why is it only racism that was banned, not bigotry in general? why can we say bundle of sticks on the servers? hypocritical as fuck, but at least the badmins are self aware about it.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: N1PS on July 07, 2017, 11:05:45 pm
I mute 2 or 3 people every play session anyway.

So like, whatever. Just don't kill the population with bans.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Gravoth_iii on July 07, 2017, 11:25:08 pm
On topic, my stance might be a bit controvertial, but I think only bundle of stickss get offended by bad words.
If you call me a drunk russian krimea-occupying friend, I might think you're an idiot and an asshole, but in no way would I suffer from hearing/reading those words.
Having said that, though, banning idiots and assholes is not a bad thing either.

So, eh... I need to go have some sleep before I'm ready to draw any kind of conclusion from that.

+1, but it creates a weird position where the people who do get offended have to be the ones muting the ones being turds. I always find free chats to be the most enteratining though, people not caring at all and just going in raw. When something gets so absurdly offensive i just laugh instead of getting butthurt, it seems to be the default for the free chat, people just go ham. Twitch chat always ends up the same if unmoderated, its like most people really just think the same way.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: ArysOakheart on July 08, 2017, 12:11:25 am
Rules are ghey.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Drunken_sailor on July 08, 2017, 02:05:48 am
real reason players don't continue on is the learning curve or maybe they just don't like it.

Ban the learning curve!

Ban not liking it!

Even better ban learning!

Ban banning!   bannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnz     visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Artyem on July 08, 2017, 09:36:43 am
make me an admin again

fuck almost went 1 year without posting
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Sparvico on July 08, 2017, 09:50:39 am
make me an admin again

fuck almost went 1 year without posting

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on July 08, 2017, 12:19:08 pm
make me an admin again

fuck almost went 1 year without posting

c'mon bud, you can't go breaking such a good streak with a post like that, you've gotta come back in with a bang not a whimper

On topic, my stance might be a bit controvertial, but I think only bundle of stickss get offended by bad words.
If you call me a drunk russian krimea-occupying friend, I might think you're an idiot and an asshole, but in no way would I suffer from hearing/reading those words.
Having said that, though, banning idiots and assholes is not a bad thing either.

So, eh... I need to go have some sleep before I'm ready to draw any kind of conclusion from that.

listen to the wise slav, for he speaks truth. allowing certain words to hold power over you is not desirable, in my view. even further, allowing an institution or group to dictate exactly what that word means and using this semantic definition as a litmus test to ask one's self "am I to be offended by X statement?" is as far as detestable

sure, i understand that plenty of folk would look at this post and say "wow what a pseudo-intellectual justification for using racial or other slurs", i'd say that any fault on my part lies in taking these things too seriously as a sort of philosophical or similar microcosm even though we're a bunch of spergs on the internet, rather than being some heinous mouthpiece for some imagined heinous and homogeneous group of genuine racists, bigots and misanthropes.

in closing, at this time i will humbly and stoically accept my position as NA admin. thank you for your time
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Uther Pendragon on July 08, 2017, 12:57:52 pm
ur right tho, i think the admins have deluded themselves with the idea that they have to protect the servers by filtering the internet; an impossible task that cannot be accomplished. i think the best way of stopping people from experiencing "racism" is by having a button  to mute (which we have) whatever asshole is typing slurs in chat. the idea of "creating a safe environment for new players" is bullshit, if people are so dumb as to think an entire mod is racist because they see one idiot in chat and therefore they stop playing, fuck em. real reason players don't continue on is the learning curve or maybe they just don't like it.

plus, why is it only racism that was banned, not bigotry in general? why can we say bundle of sticks on the servers? hypocritical as fuck, but at least the badmins are self aware about it.

Is it so controversial that I just don't want people calling eachother friends in chat? Is that demanding too much? I'm honestly curious why you think it's something impossible that cannot be accomplished. It's not about creating a safe zone, it's about creating an enviroment that's not toxic. At least personally it doesn't seem like too much to ask for, you can always use comms outside of the game if you want to banter with your friends or ride your friends or whatever, no? If you want to use in-game chat, you have to follow some rules, is what it is.

I already explained why I focused on racism in this rule change - because it's 1. a new rising tendency, 2. not socially acceptable, 3. something that hasn't taken roots yet and I believe (aka its imo) that we can stop it from becoming part of every day server interaction. It was merely a practical decision, I know that trying to tackle homophobic slurs would be much harder because people who know me know that I throw bundle of sticks around whenever agitated, it's too ingrained in gaming culture. But I won't believe you if you'll tell me that racial slurs have the same status as "bundle of sticks" or the like. They're just distasteful.

sure, i understand that plenty of folk would look at this post and say "wow what a pseudo-intellectual justification for using racial or other slurs", i'd say that any fault on my part lies in taking these things too seriously as a sort of philosophical or similar microcosm even though we're a bunch of spergs on the internet, rather than being some heinous mouthpiece for some imagined heinous and homogeneous group of genuine racists, bigots and misanthropes.

I would maybe agree that we're taking things too seriously, but that change didn't come from nothing (http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/(art-piece-2017)-assorted-screenshots-left-without-comment/) at all (http://forum.melee.org/spam/hell-fucking-yeah!/msg1253115/#msg1253115), this is just cringe-worthy server behaviour that I don't like. We just reacted to an increase in tendency.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on July 08, 2017, 01:45:52 pm
I would maybe agree that we're taking things too seriously, but that change didn't come from nothing (http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/(art-piece-2017)-assorted-screenshots-left-without-comment/) at all (http://forum.melee.org/spam/hell-fucking-yeah!/msg1253115/#msg1253115), this is just cringe-worthy server behaviour that I don't like. We just reacted to an increase in tendency.

sorry, think i misspoke or your otherwise misunderstood. wasn't saying that "the admins" or you personally were taking any sort of measures too far. if it were up to me only repeated genuine harrassment or non-consensual sharing of RL info/etc would be disallowed, and i realize that my position places me firmly in the minority (lmao) on that.

i meant that it is possible and indeed likely that i think far too much about things like this on the internet, in broader and more meaningful principles that belong elsewhere and are almost inappropriate in a way for a place like this. of course i realize that this mod is not a] my private property b] a public (and anyway public means gub'mint owned generally and if someone rolled up to a national park visitor's center playing moonman kkk rap, it probably won't go well. if dubious charges can be tacked onto a well-adjusted person's case pretty easily, how easy do you think they can rustle up a couple charges for an IRL friend spammer wow that was a long parenthesis i gotta stop that) venue and  c] anything more than a temporarily-resuscitated fairly niche mod for a fairly niche PC game, this ain't really the place to argue fundamental ideology

but i'll do it anyway lol
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Dionysus on July 08, 2017, 04:45:17 pm
Look at it this way: if you wouldn't talk this way in a real public space, then why is it acceptable to talk like this here? Any pushback on these rules just sounds like whining that your one place to be an asshole without repurcussions for a cheap laugh with your friends is getting taken away. And stop hiding behind the veil of "free speech." Your chat spam isn't some highbrow critique of the admins that needs defending. It's a bunch of vitriol you most likely type to either get a rise out of decent people enjoying the game or in a fit of nerd rage. This sort of normalization of slurs makes NA 1 look like a private server for Stormfront, and God forbid they'd think the same.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Asheram on July 08, 2017, 06:30:41 pm
I don't get it.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Westwood on July 08, 2017, 06:31:34 pm
This sort of normalization of slurs makes NA 1 look like a private server for Stormfront, and God forbid they'd think the same.
I'm not trying to complain or anything but that's some real hyperbole there my dude. I've seen various rabid conspiracy theory posts on this forum that are much more reminiscent of Stormfront than wanton slurring on NA1.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Horns on July 08, 2017, 07:21:11 pm
The logs are pretty gross still. I could go out of my way to look at logs and auto-ban people who abuse it regularly. From yesterday alone bicep is my primary candidate. Over 75% of all 'friend(s)' said were by him. Of course once muting can be persist beyond log out then log in is when this problem can be addressed appropriately. Bicep will basically be the god king of that feature.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Thryn on July 08, 2017, 07:44:26 pm
Also: cRPG chat isn't protected legally by the US Constitution, so if you want to practice civil disobedience by spamming racial epithets in chat, you can expect a ban. My personal opinion is that you should be able to type whatever the hell you want considering there is a mute button, but people who have names that are offensive should be forced to change them. Free chat, but restrict names is my ideal compromise.

Quote
Is it so controversial that I just don't want people calling eachother friends in chat?
I guess not if you are one of those guys who puts the word "friend" on a pedestal over all other slurs.

Quote
I'm honestly curious why you think it's something impossible that cannot be accomplished.
In regards to the mod, it's not impossible. You can go full chocolate chip cookie and check logs and ban anyone who says the word. At the end of the campaign of chat purification, only those who hold the same beliefs as you (i.e. "friend" on a pedestal over all other slurs) will remain playing the dead mod. To be fair however, most people (except bicep) will just not say it for fear of being banned, so your rule will succeed. I still reserve the right to call badmins hypocrites. >>As this was being typed, Horns looked through the logs for offenders LOL

Quote
It's not about creating a safe zone, it's about creating an enviroment that's not toxic.
I suppose that an environment that is not toxic due to admin regulation isn't considered a safe zone. This is the internet. You won't ever create a place that isn't toxic, and the majority of toxic comments that are spewed out on NA1 aren't serious.

So for every mini-essay or wall of text arguing 'muh freedom of speech' or whatever it is people are trying to make this about, merely add "therefore I should be able to spam 'friend' in chat" to the end of their post.

this is how freedom of speech works heskey :slow clap:
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on July 08, 2017, 07:45:06 pm
Personally, I've just about never called anyone that in a way meaning harm as far as I can recall... and only very, very rarely as a friendly insult. I pride myself upon being more creative than that. friend is low hanging fruit, with too much real world baggage. However, I defend the right of shitbags to say it.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Thryn on July 08, 2017, 07:52:51 pm
However, I defend the right of shitbags to say it.

the filthy yuropoors will never understand the glorious feelings provided by muh freedom of spech

seriously though, this shit only came up as soon as people started getting banned for it, it's not because some underlying racist sentiment has been stirred up. it's b/c the internet is full of trolls.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Dionysus on July 08, 2017, 08:04:10 pm
I'm not trying to complain or anything but that's some real hyperbole there my dude. I've seen various rabid conspiracy theory posts on this forum that are much more reminiscent of Stormfront than wanton slurring on NA1.

I don't think that's hyperbole at all. Poe's law is in full swing here, and I don't want this rhetoric to attract players who think this behavior is acceptable, or to repel players who rightfully think it's disgusting.

As someone who has been playing this mod for five years, I have seen a massive shift in the culture of this community. Some of the people here defending this bullshit are the same people who brought it here. We had some quirky and crude clans before, but it wasn't until this year that I saw a bunch of players dressed as klansmen riding horses.

This has always been a problem in the community, but people were swiftly muted and banned for it before. Hell, my clan almost got blanket-banned for a stupid banner put up when we changed our theme to the Teutonic Knights.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Bittersteel on July 08, 2017, 08:18:40 pm
but it wasn't until this year that I saw a bunch of players dressed as klansmen riding horses.

lmao, yea sry dood thats funny as fuck
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Thryn on July 08, 2017, 08:20:45 pm
lmao, yea sry dood thats funny as fuck

they were just spooky ghosts who hated raccoons
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Westwood on July 08, 2017, 11:04:59 pm
I don't think that's hyperbole at all. Poe's law is in full swing here, and I don't want this rhetoric to attract players who think this behavior is acceptable, or to repel players who rightfully think it's disgusting.

As someone who has been playing this mod for five years, I have seen a massive shift in the culture of this community. Some of the people here defending this bullshit are the same people who brought it here. We had some quirky and crude clans before, but it wasn't until this year that I saw a bunch of players dressed as klansmen riding horses.

This has always been a problem in the community, but people were swiftly muted and banned for it before. Hell, my clan almost got blanket-banned for a stupid banner put up when we changed our theme to the Teutonic Knights.
The "spooky ghost" gag was dark humor and undoubtedly distasteful, but none of those people are going to lynch anyone. People goofing around in ways like that is indicative of newer generations' overall irreverence for near everything, not the infiltration of cRPG by Stormfront members.

I don't think that's Stormfront-esque behavior anyway though. Rather than random slur abusing, they're really more about paranoia, eugenics and other pseudoscience, imagined heritage, pagan superstition and conspiracy theorizing, as I said. You can see plenty of that stuff in General Off Topic and "Historical Discussion" (lol) usually from Europeans that are seriously fucked in the head, talking about Jewish cabals and 9/11 and opium fields and all kinds of other trash. Kesh was also a 9/11 truther if I recall correctly, thought we went to Vietnam for oil or something gay like that.

And people like that are really everywhere in the world, much more so than racists, and that's infinitely more concerning to me. If you're truly worried about the influence of Stormfront and other conspiracy mills in cRPG perhaps you should be more concerned about those poor misguided people in the Off Topic section than a handful of trolls.

(click to show/hide)

Edit: Additionally, I'd like to say that I am also less concerned, in terms of the health of the mod, about unwholesome roleplaying than I am the potentiality that certain people can use friends to mute and ban whomever they please for arbitrary reasons.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Dionysus on July 08, 2017, 11:40:51 pm
I think you're getting way too caught up in the use of Stormfront. My point is that I don't want assholes like them to think they're in good company in this community. If you had told me years ago that the cRPG community would have a thread debating whether we can call each other "friends" on the server, I would have thought you were fucking crazy. But because it doesn't bother the white suburban teeny boppers that dominate the servers now, it's no longer a matter of basic decency, but an assault on "free speech." I can't believe this thread has had any more a reaction than, "Oh, right. That's a terrible word with hundreds of years of baggage, I probably shouldn't say it jokingly on a public server."
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Bronto on July 08, 2017, 11:46:33 pm
I wish I could say I can't believe this is still being discussed, but then again, almost every post I'm reminded what this community has devolved into...

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Why is anyone trying to use their superior intellect to overturn a rule that's been in place since the mod started?
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Westwood on July 08, 2017, 11:56:25 pm
I think you're getting way too caught up in the use of Stormfront.
That's why I thought it was hyperbole.

But because it doesn't bother the white suburban teeny boppers that dominate the servers now, it's no longer a matter of basic decency, but an assault on "free speech."
Yeah it really isn't. Whatever powers that be in cRPG can make and enforce whatever rules they want.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Thryn on July 09, 2017, 01:01:30 am
an assault on "free speech."

well sorry to say that's what it is

im not worried about my rights, after all this game was dreamt up by some nerd in austria, so i'm subject to whatever rules the devs uphold, and i've said this multiple times
but when someone says shit like "free speech doesn't include hate speech," the full greaseburger american inside of me wakes up to go and shitpost

now don't get me wrong, im not defending the shitheads who think the word friend is the funniest thing since SMOOTHRICH HEAD ADMIN 2014

im just saying that the slurs rule has been a massive gray area for literally years, and every single player is under admins who administer the rule in whatever subjective ass manner they please (considering some admins do not give a fuck and others jerk off to banning people)

considering we have had some real trashcan badmins do some real stupid shit, i do not fault myself or the other shitposters here for defending free speech in front of eTyranny
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Dionysus on July 09, 2017, 01:24:01 am
Thryn, you fundamentally misunderstand what freedom of speech means. It's the right to exercise your point of view without fear of censorship. If this community truly did not allow freedom of speech, this would be a locked thread, and you would not have any say on the issue. But there are clear limitations to freedom of speech, like libel, slander, and obscenity, and that's exactly what is being banned here.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Thryn on July 09, 2017, 01:41:26 am
This is not just for Algarn, but for anyone who thinks (especially in the US) that "freedom of speech doesn't include being an asshole."

The entire point of this amendment is to protect ALL forms of speech, and that includes derogatory words such as "my old friend got", "friend", etc. No, the Bill of Rights wasn't ratified to protect these specific words so people could be bigoted assholes. It was so that if someone's opinions were that of the minority, they would be free from governmental persecution when expressing those beliefs (e.g. if you were a Chinese Democratic protester in 1989, you would probably want your government to uphold this right). No matter how you may want to try and spin it, the US Constitution's First Amendment protects ALL SPEECH EQUALLY, regardless of whether it is cheerful or hurtful. This is so that the free society of the US can openly critique their government without fear of being silenced.

Yes. That does mean people will say bad words and do it because they have the right to do so. It's a part of life, grow up and deal with it. I would rather have some asshole say rude shit than be legally shot in Tiananmen Square for protesting the evils of communism. Even if hate speech is banned in your country, people will still use it, sorry that you can't escape the evils of this world.

Now, I'm going to guess that your best argument against the 1A and free speech is that "hate speech is NOT free speech and is therefore not protected." Well, if my last few sentences above haven't convinced you, then sadly, I cannot fight your delusion for you.

           Let's say that you believe that video games such as Grand Theft Auto promote violence and sexist ideologies against women considering the game allows you to "objectify" women and additionally kill
           them (google Anita Sarkeesian). Therefore, the people who produced the game are bigoted and are encouraging misogyny because their entertainment platform allows players to partake in such horrendous actions in a joyful,
           rewarding manner. If we consider this video game to be of an artistic nature and the dialogue contained in it a part of speech, we can therefore label the game and its contents as "hate speech." If
           these opinions were vastly favored among the majority and hate speech was not protected, you could expect a ban on the game and legal repercussions on the development team.

I beg the question: who gets to define what is and is not hate speech? Of course well all know the givens. Is GTA hate speech? My point is all of these things are subjective, and if hate speech were not considered part of free speech in general, the tyrannical majority would silence the minority.

Also: cRPG chat isn't protected legally by the US Constitution, so if you want to practice civil disobedience by spamming racial epithets in chat, you can expect a ban. My personal opinion is that you should be able to type whatever the hell you want considering there is a mute button, but people who have names that are offensive should be forced to change them. Free chat, but restrict names is my ideal compromise.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Dionysus on July 09, 2017, 04:13:05 am
Sure, I'll concede by US standards, banning it would be a violation of your rights. I guess that makes it ok to say in a public space. Thanks for that "libertarian in POLI SCI 001" tirade. I totally see it your way now.  :rolleyes: :wink:
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Westwood on July 09, 2017, 04:17:00 am
Libertarians are gay imo
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Thryn on July 09, 2017, 04:36:27 am
its okay m8 i dont want to drive a wedge between our love

i mean in regards to the US constitution, as i said before the admins can do whatever it is they want to this game

i entirely understand not wanting to see people spam "friend" in chat, its fucking horrible trying to play csgo when your teammates is shouting that trash into your ear

i just dont want to see swaths of people being banned
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Dionysus on July 09, 2017, 04:45:22 am
No wedge being driven, my man. I want to put an end to this before it becomes a bigger issue.

i entirely understand not wanting to see people spam "friend" in chat, its fucking horrible trying to play csgo when your teammates is shouting that trash into your ear

Then stand up against it here and don't give any leeway to the assholes who genuinely use that language.

i just dont want to see swaths of people being banned

I wouldn't care if swaths of people like Bicep got banned, and I don't think you should either. I think that's enough discussion on this matter.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Thryn on July 09, 2017, 05:36:39 am
excuse me. those of u who incessantly spam racial epithets are indeed cancer. even though i go mad nerd on freedom of speech, i do not condone the use of the words you choose to spam with your sausage fingers on your cheeto dusted keyboards. i abide by the rules set forth by uther & co. and so should u @bicep, if u can't do it, ur band.

revert to level 31 retirement.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Westwood on July 09, 2017, 05:38:52 am
excuse me. those of u who incessantly spam racial epithets are indeed cancer. even though i go mad nerd on freedom of speech, i do not condone the use of the words you choose to spam with your sausage fingers on your cheeto dusted keyboards. i abide by the rules set forth by uther & co. and so should u @bicep, if u can't do it, ur band.

revert to level 31 retirement.

Thank God someone said it
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Asheram on July 09, 2017, 05:56:12 am
this is relevant to thread because of 17:20
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on July 09, 2017, 07:07:32 am
Libertarians are gay imo

A-Leppo style muh cannabis libertarians are shit

crypto-commie muh environment muh peace muh social issues "libertarians" are shit

Hoppean traditionalist libertarians are alright

Muh 1776 strict constitutionalist Ron Paul-variety libertarians are alright too

stinky, dumb neocon scum
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: the real god emperor on July 09, 2017, 09:42:43 am
There is this message block system in Mercenaries, it doesn't have stuff like friend etc blocked, but milder stuff. Could we implement that to fit the harsh conditions of cRPG?
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Seadle on July 09, 2017, 10:09:50 am
There is this message block system in Mercenaries, it doesn't have stuff like friend etc blocked, but milder stuff. Could we implement that to fit the harsh conditions of cRPG?

Everything would be blocked in one way or another if that was the case for cRPG.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Asheram on July 09, 2017, 10:29:04 am
The only thing that is needed is a persistant mute.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Macropus on July 09, 2017, 03:04:05 pm
I don't care what word people are spamming, but whoever does that should get banned regardless, spamming is annoying as hell.
As for the freedom of speech thing, I don't really know what that is, never been to USA, USA, USA!
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Drunken_sailor on July 09, 2017, 05:03:04 pm
Chat should be RP only and only allow direct M&B quotes.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Macropus on July 09, 2017, 05:18:30 pm
Chat should be RP only and only allow direct M&B quotes.
Eh?
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: xxkaliboyx on July 09, 2017, 05:22:56 pm
Chat should be RP only and only allow direct M&B quotes.

I'm pretty sure most people on here RP whiny bishes and entitled assholes.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Drunken_sailor on July 09, 2017, 05:26:13 pm
daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn rekt gg wp
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Westwood on July 09, 2017, 07:27:07 pm
A-Leppo style muh cannabis libertarians are shit

crypto-commie muh environment muh peace muh social issues "libertarians" are shit

Hoppean traditionalist libertarians are alright

Muh 1776 strict constitutionalist Ron Paul-variety libertarians are alright too

stinky, dumb neocon scum
idk man that libertarian convention kind of speaks for itself from what I saw

bunch of trannies and naked dudes

also you forget Penn Jillette "I need freedom from religion" libertarians

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: njames89 on July 10, 2017, 02:36:29 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on August 21, 2017, 02:13:54 pm
I've been gone a while and I'm catching up on everything. Sorry for bumping this semi-old thread but I'm curious how things are going in-game since early July when this thread was active. Horns mentioned something a while back in this thread about mutes sticking to the player even after they leave the server. I don't know how high up the list of priorities that is, but that sounds like the best solution to this whole situation.

I can't believe that it is STILL a thing, but hey it's the internet. Memes. The forbidden word becomes more desirable to say every time someone makes a big deal out of it. Molehills into mountains.

I'm not condoning the behavior but this entire thing is funny to me. The drama has lost us tons of long time players and surely pushed the game a little further along towards the light at the end of the tunnel. When I think about crpg in the future, when I look back on it when it's gone, this mess is one of the topics that will cross my mind. And I'll smile.

We had some quirky and crude clans before, but it wasn't until this year that I saw a bunch of players dressed as klansmen riding horses.

...that happened the week, if not DAY, that horses in white barding were added. Torches and all.
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: Westwood on August 21, 2017, 10:07:29 pm
Sorry for bumping this semi-old thread but I'm curious how things are going in-game since early July when this thread was active.
it's dead lol

I can't believe that it is STILL a thing, but hey it's the internet. Memes. The forbidden word becomes more desirable to say every time someone makes a big deal out of it. Molehills into mountains.
hey that's what I said
Title: Re: Rules update, guidelines for admins
Post by: njames89 on August 21, 2017, 11:40:12 pm
Still gets up to 20-30 people when someone starts NA 1 up. That being said there is not much promise with Dupre MIA.