Poll

Do you want see ladders in cRPG again

YES , I WANT see ladders like a some months ago
Only on siege servers
Only on Strategus battels
No i dont want see ladders in cRPG

Author Topic: Please return ladder in cRPG  (Read 4936 times)

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Offline Wallace_Ritchie

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Re: Please return ladder in cRPG
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2012, 03:02:26 pm »
+1
        Ladders is the topic of discussion. While most people would like to see ladders brought back, I understand the reason they were taken out. I remember holding the only way in to a castle like in native. 2+ guys in plate = trouble. When they press forward, even not hitting anyone, just moving behind the line would cause defenders to spread out. Making them easier to kill. The attackers die quickly sure, but this is hardly a problem for attackers, especially at the front of the castle. Having a 3 second re-spawn is a reason to move forward in a zombie like fashion. Killing, or weakening opponents is an inevitability. More so for the much hated "strength crutching spammers". Some would say learn to block, but as siege is more, and more a new player hang out can we really expect everyone to do their part?

       The main argument I've heard most is that without ladders most siege maps become a defenders paradise. There have always been bad maps, and good maps. Not everyone agrees on what that list includes. It didn't change much after ladders were removed ( the ratio at least). I will say defenders have an advantage on most maps. This however is not a reason to bring ladders back. In my opinion defenders should have an advantage in siege, but I disagree that adding ladders again would take that away.

       Ladders give the attackers an unfair advantage some would say. I ask you how many people would follow the man with the ladder? Even if they do, how strong is a ladder? It's not like a placed ladder, only taken down if no one is on it. Who remembers fondly taking a ladder down to it's last hit, and letting a new player walk up most of it before you sent that ladder, and the player to re-spawn. I argue the points of attack do not change the objective. Most maps for siege have boiled down to a handful of "good" players holding key points. Mostly the flag area. Newer players hanging out on the walls practicing their dueling skills, and a handful of players winning, or losing it for the team. The same way many attackers that know what's up on one ladder spreads a D out. Ladders spread attackers out.
 
    " Diomedes" had this to say "The principle difference between ladders and no-ladders is that right now most players are on the same page when it comes to objectives that are higher or lower priority at a given time.  Before, not so much." If he's right then ladders should not cause to much chaos in that equation. However, how many people have typed in all caps mind you "FLAG!!!"? How many times has it helped? A few ladders in the side might make someone needing a multi think twice about standing under a siege tower ramp.

     Bring them back, don't, Whatever. Siege will always be siege.

     Battle is another story. Never bring ladders back to battle until there is an admin on at all times, lol. archers want to get on a roof? They should. wanna have the last 3 on a team camp a place no one can get to and shoot everyone when you could just kite, shoot, jump? NO. No flags+ archer/thrower + 2 minutes = draw.  :cry: Even waiting for flags makes those capping, sitting ducks if all that's left is red barred archers with enough athletics to just run, and shoot on whoever's left. Except shielders, but come on. how many of them survive melee?? lol J/K

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Offline Turboflex

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Re: Please return ladder in cRPG
« Reply #46 on: May 09, 2012, 06:12:48 pm »
0
You are really being selective in your memories by citing only the fun things about ladders. Yes we all had fun with them, but the bottom line is that with ladders, attackers were bypassing chokes and winning 90% of the time. Defenders' only chance was to sit at back and camp flag (BORING). Siege was dieing population wise too. Now maps with ladders removed, fights over chokepoints are back, making siege maps multistage again, there's a lot more 3-2 results, and siege population is back up.

Engineering stuff like ladders, catapults, towers is cool, and I'd love to see them in normal public maps outside of strategus, but the current 6 minute siege mode, and all the current CTF maps are just not designed or balanced for them at all. These maps are carefully balanced around chokes like carefully placed fixed ladders, gates, ramps, doorways, etc. Adding ladders to bypass them gave attackers a ridiculous (and ultimately unfun advantage).

Some suggestions have been made how to implement them properly, a new game mode could work, something along the lines of Battlefield "Rush" mode, where conquering one objective unlocks the next.  Objectives could even be designed to be brought down with player built siege gear.

Offline Beauchamp

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Re: Please return ladder in cRPG
« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2012, 10:51:14 am »
-1
+1 for both battles and siege

but i don't think it will happen, no-ladder lobby is to strong
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Please return ladder in cRPG
« Reply #48 on: May 10, 2012, 11:03:34 am »
0
You can keep them in siege for all I care. But removing ladders from battle mode was the best decision of 2012 so no don't roll it back. The only way that could be balanced is cutting the damage of all ranged weapons by half or more.

Offline Fluffy_Muffin

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Re: Please return ladder in cRPG
« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2012, 11:04:16 am »
0
Yes, Archers camping all the roofs again, slaughtering everyone while being inaccessible. This is exactly what this mod needs +1

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Offline bosco

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Re: Please return ladder in cRPG
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2012, 11:10:37 am »
+1
Yes, Archers camping all the roofs again, slaughtering everyone while being inaccessible. This is exactly what this mod needs +1

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lol, I remember I made this in 2011 for that very reason

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Offline Beauchamp

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Re: Please return ladder in cRPG
« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2012, 02:22:48 pm »
-1
ladders are cool, they add variety to the gameplay. i remember laddering many spots getting into enemy's back by this tactics. archers on the roofs are annoying yea, but its nothing what flags at the round end wouldn't solve (if they'd appear like 2 min before the round end no matter the kills).

the biggest problem aren't archers atop of buildings but brainless community that continually tries to climb up to them getting constantly shot - thuss making no flags to appear.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 02:23:58 pm by Beauchamp »
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Offline Joker86

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Re: Please return ladder in cRPG
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2012, 03:12:40 pm »
+3
the biggest problem aren't archers atop of buildings but brainless community that continually tries to climb up to them getting constantly shot - thuss making no flags to appear.

So it's perfectly okay for a game to have one group of players being basically invulnerable and able to attack everyone, while the other group can't do nothing except of hiding and waiting and hoping to not get killed? And this is good gameplay? With equal distribution of fun?
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Cup1d

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Re: Please return ladder in cRPG
« Reply #53 on: May 10, 2012, 03:16:23 pm »
0
So it's perfectly okay for a game to have one group of players being basically invulnerable and able to attack everyone, while the other group can't do nothing except of hiding and waiting and hoping to not get killed? And this is good gameplay? With equal distribution of fun?

It's your time to hate cavalry now?

Offline Tzar

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Re: Please return ladder in cRPG
« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2012, 03:30:16 pm »
+1
Only the fairy lobby wants ladders back

While we at it can we also get crushrough back on the 2h maces and morningstar?

Also remove upkeep and weapons slots...
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline Son Of Odin

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Re: Please return ladder in cRPG
« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2012, 03:44:34 pm »
+2
Maybe bring ladders back but put some roofs as "drowning areas". If some archer camps a roof too long he burns into ashes :D. Almost like drowning timer, but "BURN IN HELL!"- timer :mrgreen:
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Offline Joker86

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Re: Please return ladder in cRPG
« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2012, 04:34:22 pm »
0
It's your time to hate cavalry now?

Bad example, unless you refer to HAs, in which case you are right, that's exactly the reason why I hate them.

All the other cav needs to approach the enemy to attack, and 90% of all successful cav attacks are only due to missing awareness of the victim. In any other case, when the victim is aware, cavalry has real problems attacking successfully.
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Cup1d

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Re: Please return ladder in cRPG
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2012, 04:37:48 pm »
0
Bad example, unless you refer to HAs, in which case you are right, that's exactly the reason why I hate them.

All the other cav needs to approach the enemy to attack, and 90% of all successful cav attacks are only due to missing awareness of the victim. In any other case, when the victim is aware, cavalry has real problems attacking successfully.

Did you try build with 10 riding and great lance? Try please, then suggest about bad or good example.

Offline Joker86

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Re: Please return ladder in cRPG
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2012, 05:02:22 pm »
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Did you try build with 10 riding and great lance? Try please, then suggest about bad or good example.

Definitely a build which is very common on the servers and thus a good example for argumenting...
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Please return ladder in cRPG
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2012, 05:51:43 pm »
0
It's your time to hate cavalry now?


Please explain how (melee I assume) cavalry is supposed to attack people while being invulnerable ?