Blunt > Pierce?

[MrShine]

This has bugged me for awhile.

My perceived? Common knowledge states that pierce damage is the best for opening up tin cans, followed by blunt damage.  My understanding was that pierce gets more damage, and blunt gets knockdown to compensate for less damage.

But is that right?

When I look at the cRPG calculator it seems like blunt consistently stays even or out-performs pierce damage, especially the higher the enemy armor goes. 

Example:Average damage per strike of 6 PS 18 Strength 100 wpf against 0/30/60/80 armor
30 blunt damage:  38/  31  /18/11.5
30 pierce damage: 38/29.5/15/9

Interestingly enough the lower the strength and PS is for the player, the more quickly blunt damage outpaces pierce as armor increases.

For example I compare the 33 pierce damage steel pick with the 31 blunt damage warhammer. 
With 21 STR, 7 PS, and 100 WPF the pick will average 21.5 dmg vs 60 armor, and 13 dmg vs 80 armor.
The warhammer (w/ same stats) will instead average  20.5 dmg vs 60 armor, and 14 dmg vs 80 armor.

You see the warhammer stays close to, and even outperforms the pick as armor increases, even with 2 less base damage.  But the weaker the player the earlier this occurs.
With 15 STR (min for hammer), 5 PS, and 100 WPF the pick will average 16 dmg vs 60 armor, and 9.5 vs 80 armor.
The warhammer (w/same stats) will quite clearly outperform quicker w/  16.5 dmg vs 60 armor,     11 vs 80 armor.

Blunt weapons have the benefits of knockdown and in some cases crush-through.  Blunt weapons are generally heavier and therefore have a higher chance of stunning light weapons. Assuming the calculator is about right it seems like blunt weapons are also better at damaging heavy armor. True I guess blunt weapons are also more likely to be unbalanced but... that's a minor inconvenience for some blunt weapons when compared to all these perks.


Shouldn't this be reversed: blunt has perks but pierce is tin can killing king?  Am I missing something in the calculator?  Is the calculator even accurate?  Am I crazy?  Thoughts?

[Magikarp]

Don't believe that silly calculator.

Yes, blunt does better at hitting without bouncing off the armour of your opponent, but when the actual damage is calculated, the pierce damage is better.

Not to mention that blunt weapons usually are slower and less long.

[Digglez]

blunt weapons are slower and heavier, thats why they do more damage.

[MrShine]

Don't believe that silly calculator.

Yes, blunt does better at hitting without bouncing off the armour of your opponent, but when the actual damage is calculated, the pierce damage is better.

Not to mention that blunt weapons usually are slower and less long.

Where are you getting this information?  The calculator could certainly be broken/flawed here, but I haven't seen an equivalent location to do this testing.

blunt weapons are slower and heavier, thats why they do more damage.

Maybe the crush-through ones, but there are a bunch of near-equivalent-in-speed blunt weapons when compared to pierce.  If you want to pop a tin can it's going to be damage per hit that makes the difference, going from speed 99 to speed 97 isn't going to break the block/swing cycle.

[Magikarp]

Where are you getting this information?  The calculator could certainly be broken/flawed here, but I haven't seen an equivalent location to do this testing.
Maybe the crush-through ones, but there are a bunch of near-equivalent-in-speed blunt weapons when compared to pierce.  If you want to pop a tin can it's going to be damage per hit that makes the difference, going from speed 99 to speed 97 isn't going to break the block/swing cycle.

Check the game files, blunt does better vs armour 'soak', pre-damage armour reduction, which basically means it won't bounce as much.
While pierce does more damage on the post soak armour reduction.

[Dexxtaa]

Read past the next sentence, please.

Historically, blunt weapons are used primarily to knock tin cans down, then the daggers to stick them in the face.

While I realize that this game isn't about HISTORICAL ACCURACY HEUHAEH, it's important to realize that certain aspects of the game are grounded in reality. So I personally think that blunt does more damage (it certainly plays out that way for me).

Running around with my regular character, I find that in a straight up fight, I find myself dropping faster to blunt damage than I do to pierce (also there's less bouncing with blunt weapons for me).

[Ming]

when i see a freaking hammer i run my ass off.

[VVarlord]

Im a shielder and when i see a maul i run and get my pick in his eye socket before he has chance to lift that silly fucking weapon


Pierce = Speed

Blunt = Slow

Pierce wins by a mile.

[MrShine]

Im a shielder and when i see a maul i run and get my pick in his eye socket before he has chance to lift that silly fucking weapon


Pierce = Speed

Blunt = Slow

Pierce wins by a mile.

Well comparing the maul to the pick is taking two weapons with completely different roles and play styles. I'm mostly talking about blunt v pierce when it comes to same function - tin can breaking. (1h warhammer v steel pick seems to be a perfect example so I'll stick with it).

I don't know how things will change w/ new patch (and alleged armor soak/reduce changes?) but I do hope Magikarp's statement that pierce does more damage while blunt has less glance chance is right, because that gives the items a greater role in my mind -> blunt is good for low PS chars, while pierce is better vs armor.

But if the calculator is correct, it seems like blunt damage is king.

[Moncho]

Is this info still accurate or has it changed with recent patches?

[Diavolo]

hasn't it always been in M&B that to break through armor the best is blunt, then pierce, and then cut? I've played M&B for about 4 years now and it has always been the same. This also fits perfectly with reality, because the blunt weapon is made to smash the plate armor so that it bends inwards into the plate wearer's chest. (I think this is painful) however, the piercing weapon is made to easier pierce armor like leather or work as a wedge between rings in a ring mail. (like the spear does excellently) The blunt of course also works great on chain mail and leather, where the cut realistically only can deal any damage to leather and unarmored. (however, unarmored spots can always be found in RL)

[zagibu]

According to the calculator, pierce profits more from power strike. Pierce damage can surpass blunt damage with 5+ PS. But really, it's only 1 or 2 points more, they are so close that the choice doesn't matter at all.