Author Topic: how to truely balance cavalry  (Read 4563 times)

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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: how to truely balance cavalry
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2011, 09:01:26 am »
+2
doesn't even require a whole lot of PS either. Light lance + 3 or 4 ps + courser=1 hits.

Yup, regardless of what I am using, my 5PS 9 Riding Courser Gen 1 character can one shot anything shy of a STR build in Black armour or some other such thing, but aiming for the head and/or couching solves that rather easily. Or if I want to be a jerk, Bump/Lance, the latest NA jerk move that is out-doing bump-slashing in popularity.
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Offline Magikarp

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Re: how to truely balance cavalry
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2011, 02:18:56 pm »
-2
Yup, regardless of what I am using, my 5PS 9 Riding Courser Gen 1 character can one shot anything shy of a STR build in Black armour or some other such thing, but aiming for the head and/or couching solves that rather easily. Or if I want to be a jerk, Bump/Lance, the latest NA jerk move that is out-doing bump-slashing in popularity.
To hit people you got to risk a lot. If they are backstabbing you, well, than thats the same with any other melee class: you are dead.
If they charge you head on, they can't couch nor can they hit you if you downblock. If they try to bumpslash/stab you, than they are close enough to get meleed.
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Offline Lech

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Re: how to truely balance cavalry
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2011, 02:34:20 pm »
0
To hit people you got to risk a lot. If they are backstabbing you, well, than thats the same with any other melee class: you are dead.
If they charge you head on, they can't couch nor can they hit you if you downblock. If they try to bumpslash/stab you, than they are close enough to get meleed.

But cavalry can backstab easier thanks to HIGH SPEED. To hit people you don't risk a lot if you can play lancer. They can couch head on. If they bumpslash/stab and have donkey reflex they hit you before you chamber the attack.

Offline Magikarp

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Re: how to truely balance cavalry
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2011, 03:18:44 pm »
-2
But cavalry can backstab easier thanks to HIGH SPEED. To hit people you don't risk a lot if you can play lancer. They can couch head on. If they bumpslash/stab and have donkey reflex they hit you before you chamber the attack.
What's this bullshit? Couching is one of the easiest moves to dodge, not to mention how easily it is to kill the rider while youre at it.

They cant bumpslash you if you attack them first, if you are a onehander, well, it's harder, but thats only normal, because onehander/2hander cav is your worst nightmare.
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Offline Lech

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Re: how to truely balance cavalry
« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2011, 12:36:41 pm »
0
What's this bullshit? Couching is one of the easiest moves to dodge, not to mention how easily it is to kill the rider while youre at it.

They cant bumpslash you if you attack them first, if you are a onehander, well, it's harder, but thats only normal, because onehander/2hander cav is your worst nightmare.

Couching is not that easy to dodge when fighting skilled coucher with proper build and horse, it's not to easy to kill rider either. It's matter of proper positioning and awareness too.

They can't bumpslash, but they can bumpstab. As 1hander i fear bumpslash the most, even more than lance cavalry.

Offline Magikarp

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Re: how to truely balance cavalry
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2011, 12:39:57 pm »
-2
Couching is not that easy to dodge when fighting skilled coucher with proper build and horse, it's not to easy to kill rider either. It's matter of proper positioning and awareness too.

They can't bumpslash, but they can bumpstab. As 1hander i fear bumpslash the most, even more than lance cavalry.
Bumpstab wont do much damage at all.

And about couching: it's easy as hell to dodge, either move away from the horse or get in the middle of it, works like a charm. Or just stab the horse/rider, even easier.
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Offline Ming

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Re: how to truely balance cavalry
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2011, 12:43:22 pm »
-1
If u add the weight penalty to the riders equipment should greatly reduce the number of heavy cavs out there. Make the archers and HAs easier to shoot down lancers. The heavier the armor you wear, the slower the horse goes.

Offline Magikarp

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Re: how to truely balance cavalry
« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2011, 12:46:17 pm »
-2
If u add the weight penalty to the riders equipment should greatly reduce the number of heavy cavs out there. Make the archers and HAs easier to shoot down lancers. The heavier the armor you wear, the slower the horse goes.
Wait, now it's suddenly heavy cav thats the problem? Wut?

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Offline Lech

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Re: how to truely balance cavalry
« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2011, 12:50:40 pm »
+1
If u add the weight penalty to the riders equipment should greatly reduce the number of heavy cavs out there. Make the archers and HAs easier to shoot down lancers. The heavier the armor you wear, the slower the horse goes.

If anything make the penalty lower for armored horses and destrier and the black horse. If it's made into the game (probably wont).

Bumpstab wont do much damage at all.

And about couching: it's easy as hell to dodge, either move away from the horse or get in the middle of it, works like a charm. Or just stab the horse/rider, even easier.

Getting into middle don't work against decent coucher, moving away is not always possible. Stabbing the horse is impossible with many weapons against great lance (against heavy it's a bit easier but even with war spear it's quite difficult against decent player).

Offline Ming

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Re: how to truely balance cavalry
« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2011, 12:51:04 pm »
0
Wait, now it's suddenly heavy cav thats the problem? Wut?

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Re: how to truely balance cavalry
« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2011, 05:54:34 pm »
+1
Hello,
in my opinion, the main problem is cav's damages.
Indeed, most of lancers can one-shot almost everybody with a simple hit (in other words, not a couched lance hit), even if they are not at their full speed (and even if you have a heavy armor). Moreover, lancers use very long weapon, so most of inf can't do anything against them. So for me cav, and in particulary lancers, are OP.
Besides, i don't know if it's the same in NA, but in EU, the number of cav increased a lot those last months. So it's not rare to see like a dozen of cav (and 75% of those cav are lancers) in the same team, which is a bit unplayable for inf who don't have any way to protect themselves.
As far as i'm concerned, the only way i found to protect myself against lancers was to become a 1h cav. In this way, i can flee ennemy lancers ><. Of course, i can one shot many poeple (with a mw military cleaver and at full speed i can), but 1h/2h cav take much more risk than lancers, because they are vulnerable against 2h sword, most of polearmes, and 1h sword (if they know how to jump slash or if they know how to use a thrust).
So in my opinion the main problem of cav balance is the fact that lancers do so much damages in compare to other class. And the high number of cav is due to this problem, because we often see lancers with 35/45 kills at the end of a row, so poeple want to do the same and become lancers.

PS: Sorry if i did grammar mistakes, i'm not english so i still have difficulty in writting english correctly  ^^

PS2: And please don't say me that lancers do many kills because they are skilled, maybe 10% of them are, the rest just use a (herloomed) sarranid warhorse + (herloomed) heavy lance and one shot everything without taking any risk

PS3: Siiem, you're realy luckie if you're one shot only by lancers who have mw heavy lance xd

Fully agree.  NA cav population has doubled here as well, mostly lancers on coursers and arabians.  Oftentimes half the server will be cav and there is pretty much nothing you can do.  If you are an archer you can shoot a courser 3-4 times before it dies, but all they have to do is charge you as soon as you hit their horse and 1-hit kill you before you can draw your bow back for another shot.  Oftentimes top 6 on each team will be cav (many pretty average players), and almost entirely lancers on coursers and arabians.  If you try to dodge too early a lancer the high speed and maneuverability of the horse and the ease of turning a lance (i see 1-shot turned almost facing behind them on the horse hits all the time) makes it very difficult to do.  If you wait to last moment you can occasionally succeed against bad and average cav, but often not since the acceleration rate of fottmen is for crap since january so you move like your stuck in mud when you first start moving.

I can only think Magikarp is just really bad cav that he doesn't see this as they are the main ones having trouble getting more than a 2:1 k/d.  We keep k/d stats on NA - if you ignore gravity -> 1st place, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th - cav lancers, all but Rohypnol use champion courser with MW heavy lance and he uses champion catatphract with mw lance.  Out of a dozen cRPG classes, cav have come to completely dominate NA battle servers on EVERY map, no such thing a s a cav and non-cav map anymore.  It takes 5-7 arrows to take down a champion courser nowadays and they get stopped all the time by pikeman and still ride away (i've seen them do it sometiems twice in the ssame round).  They make no noise and will often kill as amnay as 8 in 8 seconds as they 1 shot every single person they hit.
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Offline Bramd

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Re: how to truely balance cavalry
« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2011, 06:03:09 pm »
+1
I can only think Magikarp is just really bad cav that he doesn't see this as they are the main ones having trouble getting more than a 2:1 k/d.  We keep k/d stats on NA - if you ignore gravity -> 1st place, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th - cav lancers, all but Rohypnol use champion courser with MW heavy lance and he uses champion catatphract with mw lance.  Out of a dozen cRPG classes, cav have come to completely dominate NA battle servers on EVERY map, no such thing a s a cav and non-cav map anymore.  It takes 5-7 arrows to take down a champion courser nowadays and they get stopped all the time by pikeman and still ride away (i've seen them do it sometiems twice in the ssame round).  They make no noise and will often kill as amnay as 8 in 8 seconds as they 1 shot every single person they hit.

I dunno, I think it's hilarious...  His argument is "It's bullshit that archery can sometimes, with very specific equipment, 2 shot a person...  Meanwhile, I on my horse can only 1 shot someone...  But it's pure skill...  Because cavalry are clearly the only players who put themselves in any danger in order to kill someone.  Infantry?  They are op, they can 2 or three shot people...  So are archers...  Make it easier for me to one shot people...  It's only fair...  Because I have skill."

It's fantastic.  Really an airtight logical argument.

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Re: how to truely balance cavalry
« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2011, 06:10:42 pm »
0
Yeah, let's nerf cav by making them less effective when dismounted.
Great idea, totally unbiased.


hehe +1
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