Archers

[Dasty]

Right, but if an archer who is avoiding melee who is not the last one remaining then it was considered delaying the game.

Gotcha.

Thank you for the Rules Clarification for those servers.

I don't think you read my post up above correctly. I took that specific situation and analyzed how it was playing out. You can't just make generalizations for every situation. The only people who were left alive were chasing you while your teammates were no where in sight. I told you to stop running so they could fight you in melee and most likely this would slow them down enough for your teammates to come and join you in battle. I don't understand how you you can try to make these generalizations based on one specific and unusual situation. In the end you were really doing nothing wrong but your actions were indirectly causing a delay in the game. I think you are mixing up my dislike of your play style with my decisions as an admin. I am letting you know now that my response to the situation was not affected at all by my disgust with your play style. Stop acting like it was and just get over it.

[Cup1d]

EDIT so if someone dances too much to avoid my arrows during a match, is he delaying the game?

No, it's just silly coward without any honor and skills to avoid our arrows by his mind power. They can win but cant be respected by any ranged.

Therefor every infantry is heavy str -> no athletics. Archer can just run away from melee np now and its annoying as fuck.

If you wanna be slow as turtle - than you'll die as slow turtle too.

[Governor]

I hate archers because of the meta-game shift from heavy Agility melee to heavy STR no agility.
An agility based melee has no chance anymore in a duel agaisnt another melee'er (since STR is so OP right now for melee).

Therefor every infantry is heavy str -> no athletics. Archer can just run away from melee np now and its annoying as fuck.

This has caused more str infantry to do cav/infantry hybrids (with 12~agi) and now cav map are fucking unplayable as a melee'r with 5000 archers and 5000 cavs

On top of that there's nothing you can do agaisn't 2 archers as a melee, you can outplay 2+ melee'r but if there's a chance you get ranged youre fucked, so fuck all of you.

-kekeeke

So to clarify, you hate archers because they are a good counter to the overpowered STR builds?  Shouldn't the blame there be placed on OP STR builds?  I'm not going to lie, it is immensely frustrating if I am being blamed for effectively countering what is otherwise a dominating build. :-/

[Miley]

I don't play horse archer or archer just to make my team/enemies mad. I play archer because I like arching, it's fun, and I it gets boring doing melee all the time. Everyone complains to archers, "Don't shoot into melee, you idiots!" I can't name one archer that doesn't shoot into melee. If you pick up a ranged weapon, you WILL shoot into melee, not matter who you are. So people should just quit saying that, and instead they should tell you to be more careful or something.

If they cry about archers and all that, just ignore them. It doesn't affect me if people QQ about my arching or not. I shoot from far, I shoot from close. I don't care what people are going to tell me.

[Dasty]

Telling an archer not to run from melee is like telling a melee to stop trying to avoid arrows. It's absolutely retarded and anyone with this mindset has some problems. What're you so egotistical that you can't look at things from an archer's perspective or do you just not care to? Would you really refute the fact that an archer is more useful if he doesn't fight in melee? I'd question how useful he is as an archer if he chooses melee as well.

I was confused by your post until Manowar stated that it may be directed at me. I have no idea where your claim that I am egotistical came from and I have looked at it as an archer. Just because my main isn't an archer doesn't mean I am not capable of seeing the situation from an archers point of view. I mentioned above that I have an alt that I play quite frequently that is an archer. I have experimented with tactics for my archer to use and so far the best tactics I have seen used by archers are the one I described above. Kesh is a fantastic example of a highly effective archer that can still destroy people in melee. You can question how good Kesh is because he chooses to melee as well. I can see you making an argument that he is very high level but I feel like he would play just as well at a level 31 build.

[Tears of Destiny]

I don't think you read my post up above correctly. I took that specific situation and analyzed how it was playing out. You can't just make generalizations for every situation. The only people who were left alive were chasing you while your teammates were no where in sight. I told you to stop running so they could fight you in melee and most likely this would slow them down enough for your teammates to come and join you in battle. I don't understand how you you can try to make these generalizations based on one specific and unusual situation. In the end you were really doing nothing wrong but your actions were indirectly causing a delay in the game. I think you are mixing up my dislike of your play style with my decisions as an admin. I am letting you know now that my response to the situation was not affected at all by my disgust with your play style. Stop acting like it was and just get over it.

OK, fine, let us look at this from a third person perspective.

One enemy at the time was a consistent 10 to 15 feet behind me, and the other was approaching and at the time on an intercept course of about 20 or 30 seconds... And my team was at the ice tower, which takes about 30 seconds to cross all the water and come to me.

You expect me to last, with a stick (though at the time you thought I was unarmed, this this makes this very interesting) 20 seconds, or even 10 against a melee user who was one of your renowed ones, who was using a poleaxe? And I am a warbow user, obviously not having any real melee skills... and somehow I am to buy time for my team to come to me? Interesting, I am so happy to see that you think so highly of my melee skills (especially at the time since apparently you did not notice the stick and thought I was unarmed) to be able to last that long... Thank you good sir for considering me a god amongst archers! 

Also if in the end I was not doing anythign wrong but was indirectly delaying the game, then this is a contradictory statement considering you pink texted me to stop running, thus me doing something wrong...

I am making an issue of this because you made a bad call and somehow think it was a good call... So it will happen again... which is bullshit, in my not so humble opinion.

EDIT: As for your Kesh example, are you really using a person who uses a two handed sword as an example of a great archer for melee? Kesh has a lot of points left for PowerStrike and such, and is a clear hybrid who invested a lot into a melee focus not just shooting, and also only has one quiver and a one slot bow...

[Governor]

That's a reasonable mindset Miley, but part of my enjoyment comes from the feeling that I've contributed to the team in some way.  That's why I'm kind of looking for some sort of consensus from the melee crew about what they'd prefer their archer teammates to do to help contribute.

[duurrr]

If you wanna be slow as turtle - than you'll die as slow turtle too.

I dare you make a melee char with 18 agi.

You'll go insane when you need to hit some people 8+ times.

[Miley]

I dare you make a melee char with 18 agi.

You'll go insane when you need to hit some people 8+ times.

What's wrong with 21-18? I don't have to hit people 8+ times ;D (I'm actually 21-20 now)

That's a reasonable mindset Miley, but part of my enjoyment comes from the feeling that I've contributed to the team in some way.  That's why I'm kind of looking for some sort of consensus from the melee crew about what they'd prefer their archer teammates to do to help contribute.

I'm not happy if I'm not getting kills. I want to get the kills, not help my teammates achieve victory. Lols 8]

[Dasty]

OK, fine, let us look at this from a third person perspective.

One enemy at the time was a consistent 10 to 15 feet behind me, and the other was approaching and at the time on an intercept course of about 20 or 30 seconds... And my team was at the ice tower, which takes about 30 seconds to cross all the water and come to me.

You expect me to last, with a stick (though at the time you thought I was unarmed, this this makes this very interesting) 20 seconds, or even 10 against a melee user who was one of your renowed ones, who was using a poleaxe? And I am a warbow user, obviously not having any real melee skills... and somehow I am to buy time for my team to come to me? Interesting, I am so happy to see that you think so highly of my melee skills (especially at the time since apparently you did not notice the stick and thought I was unarmed) to be able to last that long... Thank you good sir for considering me a god amongst archers! 

Also if in the end I was not doing anythign wrong but was indirectly delaying the game, then this is a contradictory statement considering you pink texted me to stop running, thus me doing something wrong...

I am making an issue of this because you made a bad call and somehow think it was a good call... So it will happen again... which is bullshit, in my not so humble opinion.

I dont remember ever stating that I thought you were unarmed.

I value your opinion and you might be right. Maybe I did make a bad call, maybe it was a good one. In the end, your team was victorious and the round was not delayed much further. Yes, you died because of my message while you were tying to respond to it. Its one death and an uncommon situation. I will remember your opinions on the situation and will consider them the next time a similar situation comes up.

[Cup1d]

You'll go insane when you need to hit some people 8+ times.

Wut? Are you trying to kill them barehanded?

Standart battle build 21\18, 154 wpp in pole, mw Bec.

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[duurrr]

I'm 24 12. o.O

I was 18 18 before... I raged out of that build ;)

Wut? Are you trying to kill them barehanded?

Standart battle build 21\18, 154 wpp in pole, mw Bec.

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can you do that w/ cut?

And with some armor that makes sense..

I have 50 armor on my light set. >.>
36+14

[Tears of Destiny]

I dont remember ever stating that I thought you were unarmed.

Here you go

For the general public to know, Duke was actively running in circles on his horse shooting at enemies and pulling out his sword to kill enemies the entire time. Tears(a very fitting name) was simply running with no melee weapon and bow sheathed.

Anywho, have a good day.I will leave the thread to the original purpose.

[Kenji]

It seems as if the only thing people hate more than the archer class itself is dying to an archer.

I lost count to how many times I died from ranged attacks (Be it Arrows, Xbows, or Throwing) on horseback than from lances or jumping infantries. I should really make a video of it, those dying moments and take screen shots of those, I don't know why, but I think it's comical at best.

I don't know what you consider 'b*tching'? But whenever I said something like "Devious archers! Come take my charges!", "The indignity of death by an arrow in my head instead of a lance in my chest.", "Argh! The agony of getting shot down on my horseback!"

They're more like RP-rants, I'm glad to be shot down by archers, so I guess I'd look better than dying from lances since that'd just probably have a negative indication on my cavalry skills

All of that said, I put it to you, my non-archer, bow-hating, level-headed fellow gamers: What do you want from the archers on your team?  What makes an archer valuable to you?  Would you prefer that archers keep their distance, raining in arrows from afar?  Would you prefer that archers are close enough to have your back in close combat?  What can I do, as an archer, to contribute more to our team?

I support archers, I'm glad to have them watch my backs, and whenever my horse is shot down, I always try and regroup with the archers since I know they'd usually pick a safe spot to snipe. I've covered archers to move around and distract chasing infantries. I don't know how to put this, without ranged classes, I'd probably have less chances to see teamwork that made me even more immersed into this awesome game.

Edit: Reminds me of Fallen archers, I remember Loki and some of his clanmates would work together (One serve as bait to lure me around chambering my lance and leave my flanks wide open) and take me down whenever I'm not watching. Those are great moments, even though I didn't enjoy getting shot down

[Jacko]

I kill as many melees with my 0 slot unloomed hammer as I kill archers with my arbalest. This thread... *shakes head*

Archers will play as archers and melee as melee, working Together you can overcome each others weaknesses. Of course public play will be fucked by over representation of certain classes, if you can't handle that, stick to clan matches or something.