Author Topic: So about that banner balancer........  (Read 6340 times)

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Offline Kalam

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Re: So about that banner balancer........
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2011, 06:23:39 am »
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orly?
:D

My honest thoughts on the OP.

Offline SalmonGod

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Re: So about that banner balancer........
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2011, 06:24:32 am »
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I don't understand why autobalance sucks so bad.  I don't really understand what it does.  I'm sure I've seen it take all of the top scoring people from the first round and place them all on one team together on many occassions, which makes absolutely no sense.

If I had any hand in it, I would divide players up into tiers based on their career k/d ratios, then equalize population between teams for each tier.

Offline Braeden

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Re: So about that banner balancer........
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2011, 06:34:37 am »
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SalmonGod...
That is what it does.

Offline CtrlAltDe1337

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Re: So about that banner balancer........
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2011, 06:35:01 am »
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The banner autobalance thing is a vast improvement over the previous autostack system, but it has this one problem, at least on the NA server, and from this issue comes all the complaints I think: when 20 or so ATS players join a single server and get placed on the same team, it drastically unbalances it.  Putting any large amount of half-decent, half-coordinated players against the cRPG mob will almost always result in victory.  This gives that team large XP/gold bonuses.  Thus, other team either rages, complains, or goes to a different server.  ATS is the only clan I've seen large enough to consistently do this, since most other NA clans (including my own) usually have less than half a dozen players on at any given time on a single server.  LLJK don't count because they are goons and worse.  I don't know how things are in Europe, but I'd guess that there are enough big clans there to keep things competitive. 

This isn't ATS' fault, its just the community is small.  Autobalance works by numbers, it can't account for player skill or teamwork. 

How to fix this I don't know.  Probably the easiest, to be frank, would be, when lots of members of a single clan are on, to split up into 2 "squads" with different banners, and so hope you get on opposite teams and can have more organized battles for everyone.  But that depends on the clans, not any coding the cRPG dev team can do.
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Offline SalmonGod

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Re: So about that banner balancer........
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2011, 06:40:55 am »
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SalmonGod...
That is what it does.

Seriously?  Damn.  My idea sucks, then.  I've rarely been happy with the results.

Offline Ashrik

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Re: So about that banner balancer........
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2011, 07:00:51 am »
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At first I enjoyed the idea of playing with my teammates.

But as I have played other MMOs and games without a clan/squad/guild, I know the feeling of trying to form a team from individuals while those in charge pretend that going against guilds is totally fair.

Banner balance is a good thing if either A) You enjoy playing with your banner and don't care for the results or B) You enjoy playing with your banner and winning constantly versus pub players. I'll let you guess which category someone like Gorath fits into most.

I can't fault them for using the server options they like most in the server that they pay for, but to pretend that it's good for everyone because "it's good for me" is pretty silly.

There's nothing I like more that shooting someone in the face and hearing them on teamspeak.

If the servers are, themselves, trying to balance autobalance versus bannerbalance, it needs to put a bit more weight on the autobalance side of the scale.


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See, that's not bad. A lot of us play on this server, sure. But you can't pretend that we just use it to group up and roll with x5 for rounds on end. You won't find a thread like this about that server. Too bad you don't play here Keltesh, since the problem you've noticed doesn't seem to exist there (but omg goons!).
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 07:06:13 am by Ashrik »
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Offline panderson

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Re: So about that banner balancer........
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2011, 07:07:00 am »
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I wish I just took a screenshot. 

The other team complains about ATS dominating the map.  They all get switched to that team.  That team (now with ATS) loses. 

They aren't unbeatable if you have an equivalently skilled team who does a half decent job of staying together.

Offline Heroin

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Re: So about that banner balancer........
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2011, 07:13:45 am »
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Look, in a fight between autobalance and banner balance, autobalance wins every time. If autobalance cannot balance the game with people of the same banner on one side, guess what? They get split up.

I played with another member of ATS early yesterday morning for about 4 hours on a server that had less than 30 people on. Banner Balance was on. We didn't get put on the same team ONCE.

Autobalance takes the following into consideration:

1. Level
2. CAREER Kill:Death ratio.
3. (Optional) Banner.

Only # 1 and 2 add "Points" to the pool for calculating team balance. If there are two guys who's level and K:D make them worth 250 points, and one of the two has a banner matching someone on a particular team, THAT is when banner balance comes into play.

In closing, I know people don't necessarily like to hear this, but if playing against clans with unorganized pubs on your team isn't your cup of tea, join a clan. Or, alternatively, make some friends. You don't have to be in a clan, or involved in politics to have friends who simply decide to wear the same banner in order to play together.

Banner balancing is, as Gorath said, the single most awesome addition to this mod since the beginning.


EDIT: OH!, also, Goretooth made his triumphant return to CRPG yesterday after taking a month off. People who are new, or just don't know, may not realize that Goretooth pretty much always wins. So while it may have LOOKED like the ATS war machine was dominating, it was really just Goretooth owning faces while the rest of us rode his coat-tails on easy street.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 07:18:35 am by Heroin »
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Offline Gorath

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Re: So about that banner balancer........
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2011, 07:16:27 am »
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But as I have played other MMOs and games without a clan/squad/guild, I know the feeling of trying to form a team from individuals while those in charge pretend that going against guilds is totally fair.
Omg, a bunch of pubbies trying to Rambo vs an organized squad with voice com isn't fair?!?!?!?!  Blasphemy.   :rolleyes:

Banner balance is a good thing if either A) You enjoy playing with your banner and don't care for the results or B) You enjoy playing with your banner and winning constantly versus pub players. I'll let you guess which category someone like Gorath fits into most.
Yup, I enjoy rolling pubbies with my team.  That's why 90% of the time I'm on an alt without ATS tags and a completely random banner.  ;)  When I feel like rolling with the squad I swap to my main and join in on the phalanx fun.  And really, a fucking goon trying to claim some kind of moral superiority?  Please.


See, that's not bad. A lot of us play on this server, sure. But you can't pretend that we just use it to group up and roll with x5 for rounds on end. You won't find a thread like this about that server. Too bad you don't play here Keltesh, since the problem you've noticed doesn't seem to exist there (but omg goons!).

You mean like the first few days the server was up and running?  When you all stacked one side with banners and armored horse cav rolled everyone on the server while proclaiming how they were all scrubs, sperg lords and bundle of stickss?
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I would like however, to have goons totally dominate a server and fallen we can.
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3369273&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=47
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Unfortunately, chadz actually disabled this last night. EU1 wasn't able to handle the goon horde and they whined until it was taken off until, according to chadz, "people level out more" aka we lose our heavy cav money. 
That is bullshit, pretty much the only thing I liked about that patch was actually being able to play with goons all on the same team.   
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3369273&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=44
 :mrgreen:
Pot and kettle here.
And I should be nice or polite to anyone.... why exactly?

Offline Braeden

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Re: So about that banner balancer........
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2011, 07:27:49 am »
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In closing, I know people don't necessarily like to hear this, but if playing against clans with unorganized pubs on your team isn't your cup of tea, join a clan. Or, alternatively, make some friends. You don't have to be in a clan, or involved in politics to have friends who simply decide to wear the same banner in order to play together.

I'd point out that the TS3 server D'Hara uses is a public NA server teamspeak which is open to anyone who wishes to use tactics.  Kophka's been trying to get people to use it, simply nobody has.  No politics, no clan required.  And if you can't think of a better reason to join it that this, I offer the following.

"Okay, see the guy in black armor?  Yeah, Goretooth.  Crossbows, Jarids, focus fire."

Offline SPQR

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Re: So about that banner balancer........
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2011, 07:36:35 am »
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Omg, a bunch of pubbies trying to Rambo vs an organized squad with voice com isn't fair?!?!?!?!  Blasphemy.   :rolleyes:
Yup, I enjoy rolling pubbies with my team.  That's why 90% of the time I'm on an alt without ATS tags and a completely random banner.  ;)  When I feel like rolling with the squad I swap to my main and join in on the phalanx fun.  And really, a fucking goon trying to claim some kind of moral superiority?  Please.


You mean like the first few days the server was up and running?  When you all stacked one side with banners and armored horse cav rolled everyone on the server while proclaiming how they were all scrubs, sperg lords and bundle of stickss?http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3369273&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=47That is bullshit, pretty much the only thing I liked about that patch was actually being able to play with goons all on the same team.   
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3369273&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=44
 :mrgreen:
Pot and kettle here.

You messed up your quotes.

Anyway, the reason this isn't an issue with LLJK is because having extra goons on your team is as much of a liablity as an asset.
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Offline PhantomZero

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Re: So about that banner balancer........
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2011, 08:24:20 am »
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Another reason is when LLJK get split up we prefer to attack other LLJK members first, this is due to the high level of clan infighting. Resulting in a balanced game because all LLJK are dead (except one) before the 3 minute mark.
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Offline WaltF4

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Re: So about that banner balancer........
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2011, 09:12:30 am »
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Autobalance takes the following into consideration:

1. Level
2. CAREER Kill:Death ratio.
3. (Optional) Banner.

Only # 1 and 2 add "Points" to the pool for calculating team balance. If there are two guys who's level and K:D make them worth 250 points, and one of the two has a banner matching someone on a particular team, THAT is when banner balance comes into play.

Maybe the banners should increase the player's value instead of being a tie breaker. The increase could be proportional to the number of players with the same banner. I did get to see the ATS guys stacked pretty deep tonight on two maps in a row: once with, once against. Both were ugly, and I can see why people might complain.


Offline Helrekkr

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Re: So about that banner balancer........
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2011, 09:15:25 am »
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There's also one other thing to consider.

I've seen, more than once, people with good K:D get switched over to the "losing" team. They promptly go "bah, switched over to the losers, time to get out the cheap gear".


Offline Food

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Re: So about that banner balancer........
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2011, 09:27:51 am »
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Anyway, the reason this isn't an issue with LLJK is because having extra goons on your team is as much of a liablity as an asset.
This is definitely true.

And yeah I'll pretty much always go after someone in green before anyone else I see unless there is a thrower nearby. LLJK tears are the most valuable to harvest.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 09:31:31 am by Food »
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