NA_Siege Admining Suggestions.

[Rangerbob]

This probably isn't the best place to post this but its the only place with I know the Siege admins will read it.  Anyhow I've got a suggestions on how we should admin the NA_Siege Server.  I noticed alot of the admins especially the new ones give alot of warnings but tend to enforce less.  I understand the rules are posted with what to do but they're too lenient and I think we need to step up our enforcement a bit. 

Spawn teamwounders which are pretty easy to detect so start with a temp ban.  Don't even warn them just temp ban them.  If they're teamwounding multiple people at spawn they obviously asshats and don't need to be warned.  If you seem them doing it again, whether its in 10 minutes, or 2 days later just perm ban them and send them to the forums.

For people who spam voice chat send a global warning out then mute on 2nd offense.  If they decide to troll admin chat you can kick them or temp ban them. 

Revenge tks or Leech rage tks start with a warning that they better cut it out or they're both getting kicked. Then if it happens again kick then followed by temp ban if they come back and troll.  I would keep an eye on the person that was tked because he's usually the start of the problem.  If that guy goes and bothers someone else you can start with a temp ban on them since he's probably been doing it for a while and you've already sent a warning.

For people who punch people or kick people while waiting for a siege tower or just bored, I generally ignore it unless someone complains about it in ichat.  Then go ahead and send a general warning out and start kicking people who don't listen.  If people kick others off ledges, warn them or automatically kick them depending on how you feel or if they're peasants trolling or people screwing around.

For afk leechers, I generally tell people just to qml them and get your multi.  Feel free to kick them but the problem will usually take care of itself.  I'd recommend show names cheat once in a while to look for ones that run off into the middle of nowhere or hide in buildings.  Those you can just warn and kick.  Be warned though this leads to alot more qml complaints.

For naked leechers start with a warning to get a weapon or join the fight.  I would then give them a 2nd warning and included in this warning is the next offense will lead to a kick.  Then kick with the next offense temp ban and last one perm ban.  The problem with naked leechers is they are a chronic problem.  Sometimes people just retire so you can cut them a little slack but for the ones you see leeching day after day feel free to temp ban after your warning or perm ban and send them to the forums.

The best way I have found for people who are abusing leech poll is if you get a complaint in ichat or global chat about someone leech polling people who are moving send a global warning.  If you get 3 complaints from different people about someone leech polling just kick or temp ban them depending on how you worded your warning.  I will sometimes warn that the next person who abuses leech poll gets a temp ban if I'm getting too many complaints at once.

For trollers just send a warning and mute them for 2nd offense.  Generally trollers will then start rage teamwounding or kicking people and I slap a temp ban on them if they've already been muted.

For trollers that complain about a kick ect, I'd cut them a little slack try to explain the reason for the kick and if they keep going and going or start raging slap a mute on them.

For construction sites I do a warning then a temp ban.  People who abuse construction sites will generally block ladders/ramps and mess up a whole round so it deserves a temp ban instead of a kick after the warning.

For ladderpaulting warn then temp ban if it leads to tks.  If they're just destroying ladders warn them and kick them on next offense.

For Racism warn people then start muting people.  If they leave and come back kick them followed by a temp ban if they keep raging.

If there is a post about a person on the forums with screenshots.  Depending on how bad the offense you can just admin chat "Please go to the NA(ATS) ban forums and answer the post about you" followed immediately by a temp ban or perm ban.

As a general rule of thumb, put a post on the forums for anyone you perm ban.  IE "Perm banned _____" and in the explanation give a reason.  This way they can come on and explain themselves/apologize and request an unban.

[Earthdforce]

I'd also recommend having a text document or a list somewhere with people that you notice leeching and teamwounding and the like just so you don't forget their names.

[Malaclypse]

I'm all for stepping up enforcement. My voice commands are largely ignored, it seems, though 90% of the time they are legitimate orders/warnings ("Defend the Gatehouse! Incoming enemies from behind! Hold!" "I am manning the siege tower! I need help at the siege tower!"). People tend not to pay attention when one dude is running around saying "Attack!" ten times in a row.

Why are construction sites blanket banned again? Aren't they working in full order now (destructable, 1 material = 1 material, etc)?

[Rangerbob]

Yes but people abuse construction sites by stacking them on a ladder.  You get a group with multiple construction sites on a a single ladder/ramp and even though they're destructable you'll probably end up winning just because they can only have 1 person swing at it while getting shot by archers pikes and xbows.  It breaks the balance of the game and adds nothing other than pissing people off.  The way material works it'll take 3 minutes just build a healing tent. Only to have it break after 2 hits.

[Nindur]

The rule list is a general guideline, all final decisions rest on the admins discretion. If you fuck up then your life rests on eckos discretion.

[Malaclypse]

Yes but people abuse construction sites by stacking them on a ladder.

That's always an issue, but again, that's an issue of douchebag players and enforcement, not the c-sites. I don't think that anyone would have any issue with them actually being used for their intended purpose. I don't know how your bans work on the servers, if it bans one character on a cd-key, does it ban them all on that key? Because it should, absolutely, and with nacrpg.net active it's easier than ever to find out that this douchebag is actually this other, more well known douchebag.

I was thinking more along the lines of building a catapult sometime again. Take down the wall siege in round 1 or 2, it's down in all following rounds, so it's a bit more viable than a healing tent under the current materials costs-rewards given (of course I'd probably be balanced off of offense after that). I'll give it a shot sometime- away from choke points- with a couple people, and see if I get banned by anyone who sees that as in discordance with the guideline-not-rules put forth.

[Rangerbob]

Well we do know that catapults break the game for defenders and sometimes attackers.  It makes gate controls unreachable ect.  Anyways it is listed on the server rules so if an admin catches you he'll warn you first before he kicks.  Personally though I don't you you can build a catapult within the 6 minute time limit because it would take 60 materials and at 4 material a spawn you'd have to suicide 17 times to build it.  By then you wouldn't be able to fire it either.  I think some EU servers allow em you could try it there.

[Sphinxer]

Just a few points ..

We have a 0 tolerance with racism .. if it was meant to offend, temp ban. If it was just to goof around , mute for a while and give a warning so that the message is understood by everyone

Construction sites are tricky.. I usually let the defend team build healing tents when I'm sure they won't abuse csites and the only thing I tolerate are the healing tents. Attackers don't need a healing tent at spawn, that's just stupid. The major problem with the construction sites is that people tend to mess around, building useless stuff, and while they do that and some others watch or try to interact, the rest of team have to attack (or defend) with lesser numbers because these guys aren't helping actively.

For leechers ... it's the trickiest part because most of them will argue instead of just getting a weapon, and their friends/clanmates will back them up. Remind them that leeching = not participating actively in the fight. We ask to people to spawn with a weapon, and if they say they just retire, it doesn't matter, they still should have a weapon. They should go Sepc and alt+tab , get a practice dagger or stones and join back. If they argue they just want to pick up a weapon, then they just should get a dagger anyway and drop it when they get the weapon .. I often "qml" people in spawn if they aren't moving instead of giving a warning because they might be alt+tab and won't see it anyway. I don't do it for the x1 extra, I do it to leave them a chance to cancel the report. I wish we had that option to report a leecher without the multiplier .. many people would stop abusing it and it's a great tool for admins imo

[Rangerbob]

Yea leechers are the toughest to deal with.  I'll disagree about construction sites though.  It takes 20 materials to build a healing tent + a construction site.  Thats a min 6 lives they could of used productively instead standing around and building a healing tent.  Then have to run around and find a weapon.  The worst part is said healing tent ends up healing 2 people before its destroyed.  Its not good to have exceptions because it breeds dissent and favoritism.  Also I think its on the NA(ATS) rules that construction sites are not allowed period so its good just to blanket ban them.

[Sphinxer]

I see the rules as guidelines .. it's mostly often to your own discretion. That's probably why we have admins, they trust our common sense. (unless Ecko Gim or Gash disagree with what I'm saying, then I'd be more careful ) When I let people using tents it's mostly when it's a clan who wants to practice for Strat ... so they all spawn with 3 material and a weapon or 2 if they use a shield .. whatever slots they have left I guess.

If one guy was making a tent by himself , putting csite and materials and killing himself on purpose, that'd be leeching as he's really not helping the team, and by the time he's done, it's gotta get destroyed right away or round will be over. I agree with you on that.

[Lorden]

As my admin start on nacrpg.net show, I am leading the pack in terms of kicks. It's mostly Specs/AFK people, but I do apply the rules heavy-handedly, at least until people get the message and the general abuse on the server starts dropping. Since quite a few trolls also happen to be guardhouse lawyers, I've ask for all admins to get a read-only FTP access to the server logs, so we can pull out relevant sections and paste them as justification on the forum. It's not always possible/easy to get screenshots, this additional tool should simplify things and shut some people up.

Overall I think the written rules work fine, they just need to be enforced more thoroughly.

[Sphinxer]

+1

[Lt_Anders]

Will comment once I get a chance. Heading to DC for four days. Also my comp died

[Rangerbob]

Btw nindurr and ecko made it clear that if we catch anyone deathleeching ie spawning then suiciding /dying and not rejoining the fight, we start with a temp ban.  Now if they don't spawn before they deathleech its just a kick since they're just afk and not really gaining xp ticks. 

On a side note the only legal leeching is if they join, spawn, then immediately join spectators.  They can leech that 1x all day long and we'll only kick em if the server fills.

[Sphinxer]

Well when I get complaints about someone I usually switch to spec to watch them for a few minutes, and usually keep my multiplier and it happened once that someone said I was leeching/milking my multiplier ... if I'm alive or dead, I still get the ticks anyway so I doubt it's really leeching, specially when we sacrifice to stop playing to watch over a possible trouble maker.. it's something i wish people could understand, and it happened often that I lost my multiplier because I wasn't rejoining my team at the end of the round and you won't see me make a scene about it .. it's part of the job, there are good and bad things about it, but we accepted those terms I guess