OP Horse Archers

[Thomek]

The power of horse archery is not in stats or gear or anything like that. It is in the idea of being uncatchable and ranged at the same time. Enormous power lies in the fact that (as most cav) you can choose your battles. You can choose, when, who and how to engage the enemy. From high position you also have great overview of the battlefield. A wise HA chooses that lone unaware player. Either he cuts is head off with a scimitar at speed, or he harass him with arrows. A wise HA kites players away from their main group.. Takes enemy cav for a spin to the other side of the map etc.

From an armoured horse, very little except other cav - which takes a huge risk chasing you - can touch you. On a quick horse, they will have problems reaching you..

Alone in a 1 vs 1 situation, the only counter to HA albeit temporarily is throwing. Archers will never get the chance to draw another arrow if the HA combines bumping and shooting, let alone an xbowman will never be able to recharge. Throwing forces the HA to keep some distance, but since their accuracy is much greater than thrown weapons, they win that one too.

Now.. The only really dangerous HA out there are the ones with 3-6 times loomed bows and arrows, or sometimes horses too. Mostly only veterans have 6-9 loomed items so its not a big deal, but it might be eventually.

And yes, 1 HA may disrupt, but not destroy a flanking run by ninjas, but 2 is often murder. 2 HA working together is simply deadly, and much much worse than meeting 1 after another.

[Cyclopsided]

If you're using an Arabian yes. But with my courser it's really not easy to turn at speed enough to bump them to make them crash to the floor, or even just interrupt them without them managing to get a loljumpslash in or sidestepping and hacking my horse.. The lack of manoeuvre hurts from that pov. I think this is really only effective properly using an Arabian.

Courser you sacrifice maneuver for speed. bad argument. Every other horse, including cataphract and such can and will bump the enemy every.single.time.
p.s. I don't use the arabian. I use desert horse even though it is inferior in every way to the arabian war horse to save a bit of money -- to afford armored horses more often. Desert horse does everything I need, I have never been lanced off of it without having been my own fault by running into walls and such.

if they get a "loljumpshlash or sidestepping and hacking my horse" then it is the HA's fault for letting it happen.
One, a 'loljumpslash' can't be done by a 1h/shielder if you shoot before impact regardless. If they are a 2h or pole arm with a logner weapon -- Guess who you Don't bump? Yep, you got it right; You just shoot at them til they die, they don't have a shield so why bump them.

[Overdriven]

Oh cmon, you can't be serious?

Are you saying that because you are choosing to "gimp" yourself by using a courser and are therefore not able to keep melee constantly stunned using bumps, HA vs melee balance is fine?

As stated earlier, the problem with HA is NOT their massive k:d, but the fact that they force upon everyone else on the battlefield a defensive and boring playstyle, and that they are so godawful annoying to fight if you don't have the right equipment.

Let's face it, they effectively deny all oter classes the opportunity to flank (notice how the massive influx of lancers and ha have almost removed ninjas), leading to more campers surviving. And the best counter to HA and lancers is to camp... So there's effectively no reason not to camp since you no longer have to fear flanking infantry and rushing will only get your team killed (by campers and cav).

For me, m@b is at it's best when the battlefield is dynamic, with melees going on everywhere, cav charging and archers supporting. It's at it's worst when it's just a big campfest,

Ah but I'm not 'gimp'ing myself. Simply choosing a fast horse over a manoeuvrable one means I'm taking advantage of seperate stats. Doing so allows me to outrun most cav and keep them on their toes. Infantry is secondary to me over cav. Therefore you would suggest that the problem lies in the Arabian, not in the HA himself

I don't think I've ever seen an entire server bend to the will of a couple of HA

O dear no ninjas. I forgot that a game should allow people to sneak off across the battlefield and kill late spawners/afkers.

It is at worst when it's a big camp fest. But the fact it turns into a camp fest is usually down to the maps themselves. Not the fact there are HA on a team. HA don't have that power unless it's on an extremely small server. That is partly why I started the other thread arguing for open plains. Because atm a lot of maps encourage camping or no team tactics.

Courser you sacrifice maneuver for speed. bad argument. Every other horse, including cataphract and such can and will bump the enemy every.single.time.
p.s. I don't use the arabian. I use desert horse even though it is inferior in every way to the arabian war horse to save a bit of money -- to afford armored horses more often. Desert horse does everything I need, I have never been lanced off of it without having been my own fault by running into walls and such.

if they get a "loljumpshlash or sidestepping and hacking my horse" then it is the HA's fault for letting it happen.
One, a 'loljumpslash' can't be done by a 1h/shielder if you shoot before impact regardless. If they are a 2h or pole arm with a logner weapon -- Guess who you Don't bump? Yep, you got it right; You just shoot at them til they die, they don't have a shield so why bump them.

Bad argument that you're arguing nerfing HA because of the horse. If HA has to be nerfed it would be because of their stats. Otherwise go start a horse nerfing thread.

Yes if you shoot before impact. And unless you're lucky, or the 1h/shielder is shit, then it's not easy until you reach around level 30. In which case it becomes a doddle. But HA is a class that is difficult to play until you have full stats. Otherwise most of it is down to luck until that point.

[Fandrall]

Marathon I would love a vid where you show how horse archery is done. It would mean alot to us noob HAs as we could improve from it. And you're right btw... HA is not harder than any other class, atleast I don't believe it is.

P.S. Could you please include comments on hitboxes, aimingpoints and timing of the shots?

[Seawied]

Therefore you would suggest that the problem lies in the Arabian, not in the HA himself

lies in both. HA amplify the problem of the Arabian horse. No other class uses the Arabian to its full potential like a smart HA does.

[ThePoopy]

No other class uses the Arabian to its full potential like a smart HA does.

yes

[Erathsmus]

lies in both. HA amplify the problem of the Arabian horse. No other class uses the Arabian to its full potential like a smart HA does.

Smart, yet not frugal XD

[Thomek]

O dear no ninjas. I forgot that a game should allow people to sneak off across the battlefield and kill late spawners/afkers.

Hey none of the Ninjas I know goes to kill AFK'ers. They are usually already dead anyway. Killed by cav and HA I guess..

[Overdriven]

Hey none of the Ninjas I know goes to kill AFK'ers. They are usually already dead anyway. Killed by cav and HA I guess..

Then stop being ninjas *shrug*

lies in both. HA amplify the problem of the Arabian horse. No other class uses the Arabian to its full potential like a smart HA does.

All cav utilises the Arabian easily. Not just an HA thing.

O and yes Marathon...I would also like to see a video

[Seawied]

All cav utilises the Arabian easily. Not just an HA thing.

Lancers, 1h, 2h, and non-lance polearm cav have to come in close for a kill. Because of this, the arabian horse is a bit of a glass cannon over other choices like the desterier or the warhorse. Because HA are primarily looking for something to avoid even being close to any blades, Arabian horse's drawbacks are very minimal. That is what I mean when I say HA use the Arabian horse to its full potential.

[DesertEagle]

It's pretty hard to do that whilst riding around trying to avoid the melee and looking for arrows.

Not at all. Saw it many times.
BTW it is funny how HA call all arguments against HA is OP "it is very easy", and all arguments against HA is OP "it is very difficult" motivating it like "is you wasn`t HA you don`t know how it`s difficult or if you think it is easy - you are noob HA" 

Then stop being ninjas *shrug*

Become a HA!

[Overdriven]

Lancers, 1h, 2h, and non-lance polearm cav have to come in close for a kill. Because of this, the arabian horse is a bit of a glass cannon over other choices like the desterier or the warhorse. Because HA are primarily looking for something to avoid even being close to any blades, Arabian horse's drawbacks are very minimal. That is what I mean when I say HA use the Arabian horse to its full potential.

Again the vast majority of maps have small amount of open areas, meaning horses are often relatively close to inf anyway. It's easy for HA to take as many arrows ect as the next cav. Especially because those cav rely on engaging already engaged inf or unaware inf. It's really no different. Add on that HA can't shoot very accurately at any great distance whilst they are moving. If you are moving you still have to get in relatively close to guarantee a hit.

[Dezilagel]

Moar ninjas!

Srsly, getting insta-couched from behind is not fun at all. (Even tho probably well-deserved)

Getting pelted to death over 2 mins by HA is not fun.

Getting slashed from behind with a katana, turning around and franticly starting to block the lightning-fast swings of the ninja... Now that's intense!

[Thomek]

What i meant was that the most afk-killing classes are cav and HA. It's just sad to watch cav hurrying to kill them off.

Also, I still think that the solution for cav is to reduce maneuverability and speed somewhat. Compensate by a hp buff for the horses. Also give us back some pocketable spears capable of stopping cav! They don't need to do that much damage even.. One of my favourite mini-games was pulling out a spear at the last moment. Curently 90% of players don't carry a cav-counter because they don't have free slots for a spear or they dropped it in the opening minutes. Making I.e. The bamboo spear pocketable again won't be very unbalanced because it looses DMG when used with a shield, and mostly 2 handers have enough free slots anyway. That way, shielders would have protection against projectiles and 2h would have a netter counter against cav.

[Overdriven]

What i meant was that the most afk-killing classes is cav and HA. It's just sad to watch cav hurrying to kill them off.

Hence why I see my job as killing those cav who try to get afkers.