OP Horse Archers

[Erathsmus]

HAs are one of those "classes", where you will be absolutely horrible until you hit around lvl 30, and invested a ton of gold into it.
The class is not even playable on siege. It has already been nerfed to hell from what it once was. You are just upset because if you make one mad, and you do not have a ranged weapon, they will make you hop around like a little peasant whose pants are on fire.

[POOPHAMMER]

God forbid an OP horse archer shoots down my precious lolancer while we use our 100 foot long poles from a horse to one hit people on the ground while they are fighting or defenseless!

[Keshian]

God forbid an OP horse archer shoots down my precious lolancer while we use our 100 foot long poles from a horse to one hit people on the ground while they are fighting or defenseless!

+1 agree, the best horse archers often will have a lower k/d than an average lancer who often have some of the highest k/ds.  You just don't do enough damage and shooting at high speed is less effective than a 100 foot pole sweep with your lance, hitboxes much smaller with arrows.  As a foot archer I find HAs much easier to kill and fight then foot archers, their main purpose, and consequently the group most afraid of them, is to kill lancers' horses who have no other truly effective counter (ride around pikemen, twist and turn your horse with crazy high maneuverability or go lightning fast and avoid foot archers arrows, but HAs can keep up with them and shoot them from up close but from behind where their lollances can't reach.  I have a lot of respect for people that go HAs as its a thankless task (like being a pikeman) that helps the team a lot but doesn't really rack up a lot of kills, since horse kills are not counted.

[Overdriven]

+1 agree, the best horse archers often will have a lower k/d than an average lancer who often have some of the highest k/ds.  You just don't do enough damage and shooting at high speed is less effective than a 100 foot pole sweep with your lance, hitboxes much smaller with arrows.  As a foot archer I find HAs much easier to kill and fight then foot archers, their main purpose, and consequently the group most afraid of them, is to kill lancers' horses who have no other truly effective counter (ride around pikemen, twist and turn your horse with crazy high maneuverability or go lightning fast and avoid foot archers arrows, but HAs can keep up with them and shoot them from up close but from behind where their lollances can't reach.  I have a lot of respect for people that go HAs as its a thankless task (like being a pikeman) that helps the team a lot but doesn't really rack up a lot of kills, since horse kills are not counted.

They really need to put in horse kills...I would have thousands by now 

O and +1 to you Kesh.

[Glyph]

HA's may not have a high K/D but when i played as a HA i always was able to get down 3-5 cav in one round if i knew what i was doing. and that helps your team more then any other class. with 4 HA's in one team, your cav is demolished. not fair that so few guys can do so much damage, while there isn't a decent counter to them like there is for other cav

[Overdriven]

HA's may not have a high K/D but when i played as a HA i always was able to get down 3-5 cav in one round if i knew what i was doing. and that helps your team more then any other class. with 4 HA's in one team, your cav is demolished. not fair that so few guys can do so much damage, while there isn't a decent counter to them like there is for other cav

I think it's perfectly fair. What else are HA meant to do? Otherwise lancers would rampage always and have free reign. Honestly, in any open cav fight with even 3-4 cav on each team it's actually quite hard to avoid being cut up, lanced or run into obstacles on most maps. It's by no means an easy class to play already.

Besides, if you nerf HA in most suggestions, it would nerf lancers. Simply meaning you'll not have changed a thing from that point of view. Plus, horses are big targets, even with bad accuracy as a low level HA I can land a lot of arrows in horses at equally the same amount of damage because I always up my stats to get my bow before my horse.

HA already do a small amount of damage. As I said earlier, unless I land a head shot, on a full HP, medium armoured person it'll take around 6 arrows to kill them. And when they are deliberately trying to avoid you, it means you'll waste most of your arrows.

Like I said, I think the biggest threat to HA will be throwing when that is brought back. It always was before. Or at least I found it so. I think you just need to accept that lancers are going to get shot down by HA. And considering most of the time the HA doesn't even get a kill for doing so (as most other lancers on your team will swoop in and kill the downed horsemen) I don't think you should punish them for playing for the team.

[Glyph]

as i said before, difficulty isn't an argument because:
if you play long enough you can be good with everything
and, a difficult class is most of the time a good one

so i think every HA used this argument already but i've played it too and it isn't. if you have a courser or arab, you can avoid or outrun every one on the battlefield, and if you have 4 HA or even 3, you can shoot eveyone after you play for a day, especially horses, because they are 3 times as big then a normal person, and if you watch your back, you can run past some one 10 times untill he's dead, it's not a difficult class, maybe to begin with but not to play with.

[Overdriven]

as i said before, difficulty isn't an argument because:
if you play long enough you can be good with everything
and, a difficult class is most of the time a good one

so i think every HA used this argument already but i've played it too and it isn't. if you have a courser or arab, you can avoid or outrun every one on the battlefield, and if you have 4 HA or even 3, you can shoot eveyone after you play for a day, especially horses, because they are 3 times as big then a normal person, and if you watch your back, you can run past some one 10 times untill he's dead, it's not a difficult class, maybe to begin with but not to play with.

And so you are looking to punish the average players simply because of a few, dedicated, good ones?

That's not true at all. A courser seems to have lower acceleration than most other horses for some reason. So unless you are riding at full speed it's very difficult with the lower manoeuvre to keep away from a team of lancers on all but the most open maps. Especially if they can turn quickly using an arab.

As for arabs, HA on those get shot down quickly/lanced down quickly because they have such low hp. Unless you have an heirloomed one, they really aren't that good.

If you have the time to run by someone 10 times till they are dead, then they deserve to die because it likely means they have separated themselves from their team and gone rambo. If you didn't do it, someone else would, maybe a lancer. Fact is with the low damage, you have to run by them at least 10 times before they are dead. Unless you are expert at bump shooting like some HA. Though I mostly try and avoid that method.

Simply put, you just don't like the fact that HA stop you getting kills. Lancers would have a much freer time of it if HA weren't around. And to be honest, there aren't actually that many of us compared to every other class in the game. So I really don't see this as a problem.

As other people have stated, HA aren't OP. We are annoying. And you are just annoyed by it. When you get killed by an HA over and over and see lots of HA in every map getting high K/Ds. Then come back and complain. Otherwise you're just moaning about your horse getting shot. In which case us being annoying has worked

[Murchad]

to overdriven, i think you may be understating how good HAs can be.
I want this thread to be realistic.
There are many good HAs that play on NA servers
on open maps HAs really can be a decisive factor and get very high kills.
I regularly get over 20 kills a round on open maps with few deaths.
but that doesn't mean that HAs are OP, many of those kills are helpless peasants
HAs are very map dependant and are very good at preying on the weak, unaware, and lazy players.
I must also mention that I have 5ps and get probobly 1/2 my kills using my mw elite scimitar.
(hard to get alot of kills otherwise due to arrow supply)

on maps that are not favorable for HA's i will sometimes go on foot and sometimes just switch to an alt

[Overdriven]

to overdriven, i think you may be understating how good HAs can be.
I want this thread to be realistic.
There are many good HAs that play on NA servers
on open maps HAs really can be a decisive factor and get very high kills.
I regularly get over 20 kills a round on open maps with few deaths.
but that doesn't mean that HAs are OP, many of those kills are helpless peasants
HAs are very map dependant and are very good at preying on the weak, unaware, and lazy players.
I must also mention that I have 5ps and get probobly 1/2 my kills using my mw elite scimitar.
(hard to get alot of kills otherwise due to arrow supply)

on maps that are not favorable for HA's i will sometimes go on foot and sometimes just switch to an alt

I've never seen an HA get 20 kills on one round on the EU servers Only the very very best will reach even close that on an entire map. Most don't get anywhere near that.

All cav is very good at preying on those players. If anything that's not a bad thing (except for maybe the weak ones...but tbh shit happen from that pov until you level up), teaches those players not to be so unaware and to stick with their team more.

Exactly, half your kills are with that...but most of the HA I see use only their bow. They are dedicated. A few will take 1h, but I rarely see them actually do well when they do so. And the argument here is about their archery, not any melee skills they may have. Because tbh, if you start putting points in any melee skills, then you lose out quite dramatically on your archery. I know that I can't kill anyone with a 1h even when hitting them at full speed on my courser with an espada. The lack of PS simply doesn't let you.

 Well I don't have an alt...I'd rather concentrate on my main build and perfect it and stick it out. Can't speak for everyone though.

[Gurnisson]

I've never seen an HA get 20 kills on one round on the EU servers

Tuonela, several times.

[Overdriven]

Tuonela, several times.

That's Tuonela. Even when I've seen him on I've rarely seen him reach that. And to be honest I can't think of any other HA who are as good as him. Except maybe Jackie from a K/D pov. But honestly I think Tuonela is the best. And as stated by many people in all balance threads, you can't balance by the best players.

Besides, from what I saw before earlier today, you're not half bad with a crossbow. Should we nerf it because you're damn good at managing to hit people with crazy shots with it? Somehow I don't think so.

Anyway, I apologise to all if I come across as overly defensive! But I just don't think HA can be considered OP by any standards. Annoying yes. Bloody annoying. Hell I know how annoying I am and how annoyed I get at other HA. Especially if there is one better than me who is impossible to avoid duelling with. But that doesn't mean they are OP.

[Gurnisson]

Quoting myself from previous page:

I hate horse archers with a passion, but having said that, they don't deserve a nerf. They're not op, they're just a genuine pain in the ass I can rarely harm.

I merely mentioned him as a HA that could get over 20 kills in a round.

[Seawied]

to overdriven, i think you may be understating how good HAs can be.
I want this thread to be realistic.
There are many good HAs that play on NA servers
on open maps HAs really can be a decisive factor and get very high kills.
I regularly get over 20 kills a round on open maps with few deaths.
but that doesn't mean that HAs are OP, many of those kills are helpless peasants
HAs are very map dependant and are very good at preying on the weak, unaware, and lazy players.
I must also mention that I have 5ps and get probobly 1/2 my kills using my mw elite scimitar.
(hard to get alot of kills otherwise due to arrow supply)

on maps that are not favorable for HA's i will sometimes go on foot and sometimes just switch to an alt

I can vouch for Murchad. He is the reason behind many-a-GTXs of mine.

[Overdriven]

Quoting myself from previous page:


I merely mentioned him as a HA that could get over 20 kills in a round.

Like I said. I apologise if I seem overly defensive. I realised that after I had said it!

I don't think there's ever an excuse to GTX Seawied. Not in Warband. It's simply admitting defeat. Rather I like to be persistent and if even 1 time out of 20 I can kill someone who is owning me over and over then I'm happy.