OP Horse Archers

[Siboire]

hmmm i shall try it (21-18)!! 

[Kenji]

Horse Archer OP, Shielder OP, Archer OP, Crossbower OP, Horse Crossbower OP, ...

nerf or better delete all except twohanders and polearmers!

I'm guessing the reason why you left out Heavy Cavs and 1H/Shield Cavs is because they're almost extinct anyways?

Sad Truth..

Back on Topic:
I don't find Horse Archers OP at all. If anything, I admire their dedication to be lightly equipped (Not all, most) and shooting enemies with much more interference in comparison to archers on foot.

Of course, there's some upside and downside of HAs that I don't think I have enough personal experience to discuss about, just from my experience fighting HAs as a Heavy Cav (Or light cav, sometimes).

[Miley]

They are not over powered.

[ToxicKilla]

I cry when I encounter a HA when I'm using my heavy horse. I can't even run away from them. They chase me over hill and plain shooting my charger in its arse and me in the back of my head. >_<

[Vibe]

I don't think horse archers are OP, just... annoying.

[Glyph]

they aren't OP but they are annoying enough to take down all your teams cav. and noone can do anything about it . so something has to be done!

Disagree with OP.  Not overpowered. Not even semi-viable until you have at least 18 agility for 3 HA, can barely kill anything before the build is finished, high upkeep, reducing fire rate isn't a "realistic" feature, so don't bill it as such. Watch some videos of people practicing the art of horse archery unload 5+ arrows at a 20mph gallop over the course of a half minute or less.

our HA's can shoot like 12 arrows in 30 secs. not 5! their speed should be lowered! and yes, that does make sense! because it's harder to get a good shot so longer aiming then normal, and when your galloping you wouldn't reload as fast.

[Kenji]

they aren't OP but they are annoying enough to take down all your teams cav. and noone can do anything about it . so something has to be done!
our HA's can shoot like 12 arrows in 30 secs. not 5! their speed should be lowered! and yes, that does make sense! because it's harder to get a good shot so longer aiming then normal, and when your galloping you wouldn't reload as fast.

Not when some cavs are heavily plated

Just simply use some twist and turns on their blindspots, assaulting in surprise will often catch them HAs off guard (Though some are really aware of their surroundings, which makes the job harder)

[Siboire]

they aren't OP but they are annoying enough to take down all your teams cav. and noone can do anything about it . so something has to be done!
our HA's can shoot like 12 arrows in 30 secs. not 5! their speed should be lowered! and yes, that does make sense! because it's harder to get a good shot so longer aiming then normal, and when your galloping you wouldn't reload as fast.

It has been said already, the HA has a huge penalty on his accuracy, damage AND speed (firing rate) (everything here is hardcoded). To reduce that penalty, they have to pump their HA skill which only decreases the penalty by 10% per points (from what I heard) if I'm not mistaking and requires 6 agi per point. So Horse Archers can't really have more than 3 or 4 HA skill which still leaves a good penalty. And from a while a go, when I played HA, I clearly remember having to run from archers I could not horse bump cuz (even if we're both using same bow) they would shoot me before I could release my arrow just because I'm was on horseback.

[Kafein]

It's just a matter of logic that HA are structurally unbalanced. Lets compare them with other classes to see which are their counters.

- Melee footman ? Obviously no. The only hope for shielders is not being bumpshot. 2h will automatically die.
- Melee cav ? No better. 3 Arrows in the horse, less with headshots. Then you are a gimped footman so you last even shorter.

So that makes HA simply immune to melee classes. I hope they have some serious ranged counters to balance that. Let's see.

- Archers ? Shoot, bump, shoot in any order = foot archer dead.
- Crossbowmen ? One bolt, even hitting, isn't going to do the trick.
- Throwers ? Considering it takes 3 throwing axes to kill an arab horse, that's not so great.


So the counters to HA are very poor indeed. At best they have 1/2 chances against the HA (archers). Now you might say that considering 1 vs 1 is not a good thing. Okay. Let's say 2 HA against any combination of 2 melee footmen and melee cav. Not better. The same for one archer defended by one pikeman (which is probably the best combo against HA) against 2 HA. One HA just shoots from the front and the other from the back and the job's done in no time.


So, my question is, how to kill horse archers without relying on the supposed mistakes they will make ? A class that is completly immune to more than the half of the playerbase should have some serious downsides too, but it's not the case.

[Glyph]

but you can hit them just as much as they do if your a decent HA. they might have the accuracy, but you can keep running untill you know that you can fire the best shot and then you only turn around an be in a very dangerous position for half a second. it might be dangerous for you but you can control when that danger is the best way to go, and the archer can't know that.(i've been HA myself)

[justme]

they are not OP , just there are too many of them...  make them use 1st person view, that should be enough.. and only the best will stay with it

[Argoth]

I don't know if there's another topic (or thousand) about this, but I've looked on the front page. I don't bother reading through 100 sides eighter.

The Horse Archer is too OP. It's just wrong when a HA can kill 5 lancers or whatever without any problem.
The only thing a HA requires is a fast horse, and you can't kill him or her. So, what I'm suggesting is:
- Make archer damage done by horse less
- Require higher requirements to get rid of some persents of them (?)
- Set a maximum number of HA aviable through a game (?)
- Make the horse require one or two slots (Only if bow equiped?), then the HA can't carry much arrows
- Reduce fire-rate. (Actually more realistic as the horse makes it harder to reload).
- Add a 5PD bow not usable on horseback, with slighter better stats than the actual strongbow.

So, these are my suggestions, if some of you have any good ideas or comeback, I can sure edit the list.
I am not saying to get rid of horse archers, because they are realistic, and they are as everyone else, doing their job.
I only want them to be a little less dangerous...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yorHswhzrU  go to 2:30

[Cyclopsided]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yorHswhzrU  go to 2:30

they were OP in real life, we know etc.

unless they were sieging a castle or against heayv infantry with plate armor, HA raped in real life ;(

[Kenji]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yorHswhzrU  go to 2:30

Okay, now HAs are OP, lol.

[elleryss]

^