Why are leechers so stupid?

[Punisher]

The current upkeep system is fine, you can upkeep ~25k worth of gear and still earn gold even if you always stay at x1. That's more than decent, you can get light mail armor + an elite weapon of choice.

In order to discourage leechers I think the two XP/gold gain systems should be combined. For example, lower the global xp/gold gain to 500xp/25gold per minute at x1 and add the old AoE XP/gold gain from the old version. This way people who actually fight and help their team win get full XP/gold while leechers get only half and maybe stop leeching.

[Trout4711]

I've never played in plate armor, but i wanted to get there eventually as part of my character growth. Now that option is no longer available. You don't understand what a role playing game is, as i said several times, go play native you will enjoy it alot more, instead of trying to make crpg a clone of native with a character you can make in 2 days (not really that much of a difference), and equipment based on wether you win or not.

So far so good - however my point was, that it is not possible to build a pure PvP game (which c-rpg is, like it or not) with character progression based on items that become overly powerful, unless there is some kind of restriction that limits their use. The reason is (as I said) that no player must be allowed to be all-powerful compared to other player, because in the mean every player has to win and loose as much as every other player.

If you allow overly powerful players, the game turns in to a giant pyramid scheme, where only the people at the top have fun.

And just making it harder to achieve uberness does not solve the problem, it will only prolong it.

You apply PvE-game logic to a PvP game.

[bruce]

Medium (upper medium, even, depending on class) gear is perfectly affordable. Of course, a gold buffer helps alleviate randomness - having 10-20K in the bank is good, so a really unlucky streak doesn't prevent you from using your gear.

For instance, with this:
- nordic fighter helm:  1775 g
- mail hauberk:           5481 g
- leather gloves:           289 g
- leather boots:            363 g
- Glaive:                      4656 g   
- Strong bow:             6580 g
- 2x Bodkin arrows:    2x 3074 g

total: 25,294 g

I'm making quite a bit of extra cash.

[Ganon]

So far so good - however my point was, that it is not possible to build a pure PvP game (which c-rpg is, like it or not) with character progression based on items that become overly powerful, unless there is some kind of restriction that limits their use. The reason is (as I said) that no player must be allowed to be all-powerful compared to other player, because in the mean every player has to win and loose as much as every other player.

If you allow overly powerful players, the game turns in to a giant pyramid scheme, where only the people at the top have fun.

And just making it harder to achieve uberness does not solve the problem, it will only prolong it.

You apply PvE-game logic to a PvP game.

Well that is if you consider plate too powerful, it has a drawback (speed), and that is a balance problem and not a genre problem. In rpgs you have character progression and even special items, so a player can be powerful but everyone can eventually progress to get the same power (the game has to be fair, again not a genre problem). I'm not talking about pve or pvp at all, just about the game structure, if you want a pure fps, there's native already, no need to make a mod and then modify it to be a clone of native mode.

[Jacko]

Stoopid leechers. Don't they get that spending 1k in armour and another 1k in a weapon they could be so much more effective (in surviving) and most of all, NOT BORED OUT OF THEIR MINDS, when playing.

[Helrekkr]

You don't factor in the fact that leechers don't actually WANT to play. They just want the gold or xp. To that end, being naked makes perfect sense

I played roughly 6h yesterday using the same gear:

Light Strange Helmet   888
Light Strange Armor           1298
Light Strange Boots           182
Wisby Gauntlets           2424
Tempered Nodachi           7942 (pretty sure the price display here is wrong though)
------------------------------------------
Total                                 12734 (closer to 15k with the actual price for the nodachi)

I made ~20k gold in 6h. And I wasn't even trying to farm, I just enjoyed playing with that gear

You can easily help your team win with little investment and STILL farm gold.

[Trout4711]

Upkeep ruin the game, it's too expensive to maintain gear that it's oblige us, high lvl player, to play in very light armor if we want to save enough money to play our plate one day in the future. It's IMPOSSIBLE to upkeep plate armor+ good shield+ good weapon, even with x5 bonus. We NEED to save .

There is this nice little pay2play game called "World of Tanks" that's in semi-closed beta right now. The developers followed the same path by making the heaviest tanks so expensive that it is impossible to play them 24/7. You need to take out a cheaper tank once in a while to earn money.

It's the best way to ensure a long life for their game!

[Punisher]

You don't factor in the fact that leechers don't actually WANT to play. They just want the gold or xp. To that end, being naked makes perfect sense

I played roughly 6h yesterday using the same gear:

Light Strange Helmet   888
Light Strange Armor           1298
Light Strange Boots           182
Wisby Gauntlets           2424
Tempered Nodachi           7942 (pretty sure the price display here is wrong though)
------------------------------------------
Total                                 12734 (closer to 15k with the actual price for the nodachi)

I made ~20k gold in 6h. And I wasn't even trying to farm, I just enjoyed playing with that gear

You can easily help your team win with little investment and STILL farm gold.

Those are the 50% prices that you get for selling, real prices used for upkeep are x2. So you actually played with 25k worth of equipment and still earned money, exactly as I said in my previous post

[Helrekkr]

Those are the 50% prices that you get for selling, real prices used for upkeep are x2. So you actually played with 25k worth of equipment and still earned money, exactly as I said in my previous post

Oh right sorry, shouldn't have used the prices in my inventory

[Trout4711]

Actually, you are mixing two points here:

Well that is if you consider plate too powerful, it has a drawback (speed), and that is a balance problem and not a genre problem.

This is true - there are certainly other ways to balance plate besides a prohibitive cost.

In rpgs you have character progression and even special items, so a player can be powerful but everyone can eventually progress to get the same power (the game has to be fair, again not a genre problem).

Well, no. That only works for games where all those powerful players play together on one team (e.g. against NPCs) and not against other human players.
Imagine some CRPG without the recent patch in a year of time. ALL players who are still playing the game reached max level and max items (because they are not competitive otherwise).

Now, a newbie joining would have to play for 30 levels without ANY chance to contribute anything to the fight. You think he will do so? I don't. There simply is no endless amount of fools that agree to be cannon-fodder for the in-game gods, unless those fools are computer-generated NPCs.

And don't fool yourself - every game going that route will earlier or later end up like this (probably earlier, because there are so many no-lifers out there).

I'm not talking about pve or pvp at all, just about the game structure, if you want a pure fps, there's native already, no need to make a mod and then modify it to be a clone of native mode.

You are talking about the game you imagined crpg to be - namely something like WoW. Well, it isn't (luckily) because chadz prefers a PvP game.

[Ganon]

I was not talking about pve or wow and i laugh at your weak attempt to derail the discussion. Actually i never played wow as well, you simply don't understand what a rpg is and want to impose your pure fps model to everyone else.

[Trout4711]

I was not talking about pve or wow and i laugh at your weak attempt to derail the discussion. Actually i never played wow as well, you simply don't understand what a rpg is and want to impose your pure fps model to everyone else.

 

Did you even try to understand my point?

[rustyspoon]

I've never played in plate armor, but i wanted to get there eventually as part of my character growth. Now that option is no longer available. You don't understand what a role playing game is, as i said several times, go play native you will enjoy it alot more, instead of trying to make crpg a clone of native with a character you can make in 2 days (not really that much of a difference), and equipment based on wether you win or not.

It's EASY to get enough money for plate. I had so much money laying around that I bought plate just because i didn't know what else to spend my money on. I never wear the stuff because I prefer light armor for the speed, but there you go. My standard gear for my main character is 27k. Even if I lose every round I make money. If I win a few rounds I make a shitload of money. It's so easy to make money with this patch.

I think the upkeep is also good in that in forces you to switch things up. How boring is it to use the same stuff all the time? Nowadays I try out random super-expensive weapons just because I can afford them. If I don't like it, I just get rid of it. I can make another 20k in a few hours anyway.

I just don't get this plate obsession. Plate is SLOW. You'll find you can be more effective in lighter armor anyway.

[RagnarLodbroke]

How can u know for sure  if they are stupid?

[EricCire]

Remove upkeep, go back to pre-patch xp/gold system, problem solved. Don't blame the players for following the rules.

Yeah, the we should go back to the old patch with the xp/gold system. Gold should be added for being close to the fight, and a little more gold (not much) for kills. This would be good for archers too.