[10:57] <Ecko_> hey man i dunno what happened...but you do know that it was a vote, i wasn't the one who made the call
[10:58] <PhantomZero> i was really confused too
[10:58] <PhantomZero> you kind of made it look like it was only the hosperglers who would vote no and you could convince them to make it yes and unanimous.
[10:58] <PhantomZero> plus the lack of communication leading up to the meeting kind of kept us in the dark
[10:59] <Ecko_> id like to come into ts and talk about it if you got the time[10:59] <Ecko_> or if you want to
[10:59] <PhantomZero> im actually making lunch right now
[10:59] <PhantomZero> why did you have canary talk first anyways
[11:00] <PhantomZero> i didnt even understand what he was trying to say other than "no we aren't going to help you guys"
[11:00] <Ecko_> you guys left before we even finished, just because we said we didnt want to ally didnt mean didnt want to do trading
[11:00] <PhantomZero> fuck trading
[11:00] <Ecko_> merc battles we also something we were going to discuss
[11:00] <PhantomZero> it was discussed
[11:00] <PhantomZero> you said you werent going to help us in our wars
[11:01] <PhantomZero> by mercing for us
[11:01] <Ecko_> we were going to go off each battle and decide if we could help or not
[11:01] <Ecko_> ask canary
[11:01] <Ecko_> ask anyone
[11:01] <PhantomZero> what a dumb idea
[11:01] <PhantomZero> thats not how it works
[11:02] <PhantomZero> do you want LLJK to go off each battle
[11:02] <PhantomZero> and decide if we could help or not?
[11:02] <PhantomZero> we spent months trying to get LLJK members to even agree to join up for Northern Empire battles
[11:03] <PhantomZero> and then we get pulled into vent and slapped in the face
[11:03] <Ecko_> you left before we could finish, i really didnt want it to be like that
[11:03] <PhantomZero> what exactly did you want us to do
[11:03] <PhantomZero> sit there and take it or something?
[11:04] <PhantomZero> listening to some boring dummy using too many words to describe how we were going to get fucked
[11:04] <Ecko_> get fucked?
[11:04] <Ecko_> how was saying we arn't going to ally someone totally fucking you? we didnt declare war
[11:04] <Ecko_> we didnt go around parading saying lljk, fee game to the community
[11:04] <Ecko_> free*
[11:05] <Ecko_> we wanted to talk and figure out a way to work together, but let you do your think, something you clearly reminded everyone that would be something you wanted to do
[11:05] <PhantomZero> well it sounded like you wanted all the benefits of having us in our clan
[11:05] <PhantomZero> without actually helping us out at all
[11:05] <Ecko_> you got that in less than 1 minute?
[11:05] <PhantomZero> canary said a lot of words
[11:05] <Ecko_> by hearing the words, we arn't going to ally, we arn't going to join your wars you shut down from there and left
[11:06] <PhantomZero> exactly
[11:06] <PhantomZero> what else is there to talk about?
[11:06] <Ecko_> trading, something your gonna need reguardless...merc agreements, defensive pacts
[11:06] <PhantomZero> defensive pact
[11:06] <PhantomZero> you are on the other side of the world
[11:07] <Ecko_> you asked, those are things to talk about
[11:07] <Ecko_> we had all the leaders together, for the first time
[11:07] <PhantomZero> yes, all of those things would benefit the northern empire
[11:07] <Ecko_> to talk about solutions
[11:07] <Ecko_> you guys just bailed
[11:07] <Ecko_> false
[11:07] <PhantomZero> you wouldnt support us in any wars
[11:07] <PhantomZero> whats the point of a defensive pact
[11:08] <PhantomZero> or merc agreements
[11:08] <Ecko_> [11:05] <Ecko_> by hearing the words, we arn't going to ally, we arn't going to join your wars you shut down from there and left
[11:08] <Ecko_> there are ways of helping without declaring official alliance or joining a war against someone
[11:08] <PhantomZero> we dont care about an official alliance
[11:09] <Ecko_> apparently you do
[11:09] <PhantomZero> but not helping us and by reviewing battles on a case by case basis
[11:09] <PhantomZero> is something we cannot support
[11:09] <Ecko_> then thats your problem....go luck finding someone else in game who does it differently
[11:09] <Ecko_> good*
[11:10] <PhantomZero> if you are going to review your agreements in trade/mercing/defensive pact on a case by case basis, we can't trust you
[11:10] <PhantomZero> of course nobody does it differently
[11:10] <Ecko_> there were 6 people who represented everyone else, there to talk about solutions, ways to help you and figure out a way so everyone could benifit the way they wanted
[11:10] <PhantomZero> but nobody says that to your face
[11:11] <PhantomZero> ways to help us
[11:11] <PhantomZero> by not mercing
[11:11] <PhantomZero> not supporting us in wars
[11:11] <PhantomZero> and only through trade?
[11:11] <Ecko_> i dunno...talks didnt get that far did they?
[11:11] <Ecko_> the only thing that was said and is official is that we wern't going to ally, we wern't going to join your wars
[11:12] <Ecko_> kinda like what we did with drz...they liked the deal
[11:12] <Ecko_> they got to do their thing and get a defense agreement
[11:12] <Ecko_> be never joined their wars
[11:12] <Ecko_> never allied
[11:12] <Ecko_> WOW look at that, a way everyone benifited
[11:12] <Ecko_> and it wasnt a secret
[11:12] <PhantomZero> but it was never tested
[11:12] <Ecko_> everyone in the game knew about it
[11:12] <Ecko_> yes
[11:12] <Ecko_> yes it was
[11:12] <Ecko_> many times
[11:13] <PhantomZero> how so
[11:14] <Ecko_> when drz was attacked, the northern republic was obligated to show up and defend if it was during NA time zones, and DRZ was obligated to show up during EU time zones to defend us. We never exchanged gear, never wared people together, or allied, or did anythng else
[11:14] <Ecko_> the republic was never atacked
[11:14] <Ecko_> DRZ was and we showed up
[11:14] <Ecko_> people thought we were allied, drz made it clear and so did i that we were not taking offensive manuevers together
[11:15] <Ecko_> THAT is something we could have done
[11:15] <PhantomZero> so you just show up whenever someone comes and attacks land already owned by DRZ?
[11:15] <Ecko_> no matter who
[11:15] <PhantomZero> thats joining a war
[11:15] <Ecko_> false
[11:15] <Ecko_> never took an offensive
[11:15] <Ecko_> never provided gear
[11:15] <PhantomZero> what do you mean false
[11:15] <PhantomZero> so what
[11:15] <Ecko_> thats something we could have done for you, and could have explained but you guys fuckin left man
[11:15] <PhantomZero> wars arent always aggressive wars
[11:15] <Ecko_> what if UIF comes to take you out
[11:16] <PhantomZero> because its dumb doublespeak
[11:16] <Ecko_> are you on the offensive or defensive?
[11:16] <Ecko_> hell what if the mercs magically had hundreds of players
[11:16] <PhantomZero> then they will have fun playing at 150 ping at awkward times
[11:16] <Ecko_> and moved towards you or anyone
[11:17] <PhantomZero> all of our wars have been defensive
[11:17] <PhantomZero> shogunate attacked us, nordmen attacked us, brd attacked us
[11:17] <PhantomZero> we've only attacked neutral villages and reclaiming battles
[11:17] <Ecko_> you guys burnt the bridge, not us. We were there to talk, we didnt think that becoming allies was a good solution for anyone. You stated that you didnt want to become part of the alliance and wanted to remain individual, but would try hard to make it work.
[11:18] <Ecko_> As far as i'm concerned, we were coming with a solution that would make everyone mutually happy.
[11:18] <PhantomZero> we just felt blindsided by what occured
[11:19] <Ecko_> and i'm sorry, but who were the ones coming to me saying lets get the ball moving, lets make things official? when i constantly said i'm not doing anything with strategus right now...lets give people time to think it over
[11:19] <PhantomZero> you came to us to start it
[11:19] <Ecko_> False, gaga the night before came into my vent
[11:19] <Ecko_> said lets have a meeting tomorrow
[11:19] <PhantomZero> only because goretooth came to us about it
[11:20] <Ecko_> [11:19] <PhantomZero> you came to us to start it
[11:20] <Ecko_> I am not goretooth
[11:20] <PhantomZero> okay fine
[11:20] <PhantomZero> ATS came to us to start it
[11:20] <Ecko_> and what did goretooth say?
[11:20] <Ecko_> gaga had come to me numerous times phantom
[11:20] <PhantomZero> that we should ally long enough to rush the merc territories in order to prevent the UIF from retaliating against either one of us
[11:21] <Ecko_> AGAIN, thats the plan gaga presented to us.[11:21] <PhantomZero> its a good plan
[11:21] <PhantomZero> but if you guys wont support us in any wars
[11:21] <Ecko_> im not debating if it is or isnt
[11:21] <PhantomZero> its not going to work
[11:21] <PhantomZero> so
[11:22] <Ecko_> phantom man....you know damn well that your being stubborn here...it was a misunderstanding yesterday and your hooking onto weak reasons to be angry
[11:22] <PhantomZero> you werent the one insulted and lied to
[11:23] <Ecko_> your not stupid...you know what i'm saying is making sense...and you know damn well that the meeting didnt last long enough for anything really to be discussed...Even you were surprised when gaga left
[11:23] <Ecko_> name one lie. You were just surprised.
[11:23] <PhantomZero> there wasnt anything to discuss
[11:23] <PhantomZero> if you arent going to help us out, then there isn't any point in trading
[11:23] <PhantomZero> if we become reliant on ats trade and you suddenly decide that it is no longer in your best interested
[11:23] <Ecko_> Guess we live in a world of black and white....nothing else to talk about then. Your lunch is probably getting cold.
[11:23] <PhantomZero> we get fucked
[11:24] <PhantomZero> its a cold lunch anyways
[11:24] <PhantomZero> a defensive war is still a war
[11:25] <Ecko_> ATS is the 2nd smallest guild in the empire....all I do man is try and get things going. For you to put all of this on me is retarded. Especially when there were 5 other people who wanted to discuss things.
[11:25] <Ecko_> [11:22] <Ecko_> phantom man....you know damn well that your being stubborn here...it was a misunderstanding yesterday and your hooking onto weak reasons to be angry
[11:25] <PhantomZero> canary said you guys werent intersted
[11:26] <Ecko_> Wouldn't have been nice if you asked everyone yourself...oh wait you left before you could.
[11:26] <PhantomZero> all them hurf derfin run away train goons
[11:26] <PhantomZero> uncontrollable goon horde who knows what shenanigans they gonna get themselves into
[11:27] <PhantomZero> but were willing to maintain trade and defensive pacts
[11:27] <PhantomZero> y/n?
