Nerf Longbow and Crossbows (And give back old textures on bows!)

[Magikarp]

Fixed.I forgot the Longbowmen.

Fixed.

[Sultan Eren]

It don't matter. Ranged is ranged.

They can decrease arrow and bolt number instead of damage. But there is obivously something to decrease.

My solution both for HA's.

[Raki]

Oh yes, let's decrease the damage dealt by all bows so archers are completely useless until they can pick up a top-end bow and use it reliably...which usually happens around lvl 30.

I do agree on lowering the damage output on high-end xbows and longbows though, maybe through decreasing the bonuses from looming them, as they're quite big when compared to the bonuses given to melee weapons afaik. Maybe lose one point of damage too, nothing major as the longbow is supposed to shoot through plate.

Also, it sounds to me like people want melee users to become nigh-invulnerable to archer/xbow fire. Heavy armor should have it's downside, no matter what the person using it is up against. 1-2 hitting tin cans might be a bit over the top though...maybe 3 hits would be better, about as many hits as it takes for a balanced 2her to take down your average tin can.

[Tears of Destiny]

Fixed.

For all the archers, I have been shot at and hit far more often by a friggin bolt. After I discovered that the bolt will more or less always fly dead-center if you time your release as the reticule starts to close even with just 1wpf, non of my characters use the crossbow anymore out of principle unless they have minimum 100wpf in it. Getting shot from I'm With Stupid is one thing considering he is dedicated crossbow, but getting shot by the entire pleb clan of X because they are all carrying crossbows is another thing entirely.

The bright side of me refusing to use a crossbow though is that I save so much money I either make money hand over fist now with all of my characters, or I can carry significantly better gear then my typical opponent. Still... The Bolt Spam is insane.

It don't matter. Ranged is ranged.

They can decrease arrow and bolt number instead of damage. But there is obivously something to decrease.

My solution both for HA's.

Learn to dodge nubbie! 
But seriously, the stats recorded by www.nacrpg.net have already proven that the KDRs of melee are significantly higher on average then Range, and that not a single range to date has made it into the top 25 for Battle, Duel or even Siege (And siege is extremely friendly for range to play in). over 20 of the top players are 2 handers and polearms too... something to think about.

No reason to nerf range as a blanket nerf. Melee dominates, as it should, and as of this moment it still dominates.

[Sultan Eren]

Oh yes, let's decrease the damage dealt by all bows so archers are completely useless until they can pick up a top-end bow and use it reliably...which usually happens around lvl 30.

All my old friendcers now start crying about my comment.

[Raki]

All my old friendcers now start crying about my comment.

Figured I'd beat them to it, I'm mainly a 2her. I just noticed it takes longer to become useful as an archer than when you're playing a melee character/crossbower.

[Tears of Destiny]

Repeating myself instead of refuting a valid point.

Melee already has significantly higher stats in Kills as well as KDR, this is proven with the Public stat recorder. Learn to play.

[Magikarp]

Melee already has significantly higher stats in Kills as well as KDR, this is proven with the Public stat recorder. Learn to play.

Well of course, melee covers a lot of classes, the point is not score though.

The point is, whether or not a class deals damage too easily, atm, crossbows and longbowmen deal way too much damage compared to how much effort is put into it.

And on the score point again, I see both top the boards all the time. Which is highly situational and thus again, an invalid point.

[Tears of Destiny]

Well of course, melee covers a lot of classes, the point is not score though.

The point is, whether or not a class deals damage too easily, atm, crossbows and longbowmen deal way too much damage compared to how much effort is put into it.

Yes, but Sultan was calling for a blanket nerf to All range which is just pointless and silly. If he was calling for an attack on Longbows then yes I would agree, but asking for a damage nerf on the rest of the range is rediculous. As he wanted to nerf and entire side of the coin, I defended the entire side of that coin.

And on the score point again, I see both top the boards all the time. Which is highly situational and thus again, an invalid point.

http://www.nacrpg.net/serverStats.php?order=KDR&search=no&mode=all&region=NA&page=1

Players can have up days and down days. The total score though does not lie.

[Magikarp]

Yes, but Sultan was calling for a blanket nerf to All range which is just pointless and silly. If he was calling for an attack on Longbows then yes I would agree, but asking for a damage nerf on the rest of the range is rediculous. As he wanted to nerf and entire side of the coin, I defended the entire side of that coin.

http://www.nacrpg.net/serverStats.php?order=KDR&search=no&mode=all&region=NA&page=1

Players can have up days and down days. The total score though does not lie.

First of all, I agree, there is nothing wrong with the other bows. However, I think if you nerf the arbalest, youd have to nerf xbows across the board to prevent other xbows from becoming much better.

About the kdr thing, yet again, a class that requires more skill should be more rewarding. It's just a fact that melee excels at backstabbing and gangraping.

[Lichen]

I think they should decrease all bows' damages for balance's sake.  Because a skilled longbowmen even can get you in one shot. Doing this is also effects HA's. I think their damage should be decreased. They can both shoot and ride away which is totally OP.

All my old friendcers now start crying about my comment. They would say no it's not that overpowered etc. But everyday people becoming more archers and it's getting more counter strike medieval.

I don't think ALL bows need reduced damage. Maybe some though. Maybe change longbow damage to cut instead of pierce. I don't agree with the gameplay mechanic of archers being able to defeat tin cans. It's just too silly, unrealistic and ridiculous to me. I think tin cans already have enough things to counter them such as blunt melee weapons and pierce melee weapons. Archers don't also need to 'fill' that role IMO.

[Gorath]

So you call xbows onehitting and longbows twohitting fine?
Come on, it's obviously not intended.

I have NEVER been oneshot by ANY xbow from ANY player EVER unless it was a headshot.  The highest armor I wear is the Rus Scale, but my normal armor nowadays is the lower stat Kuyak armor.  I have been twoshot by both xbows AND bows (more than just the longbow.  Warbow, strong bow and even the Khergit bow) and for the most part I think that's somewhat ok yes.

[Seawied]

I would love your magic awesomeness bubble Gorath, because I get 1 shot on my 7 IF character wearing heraldic mail with surcoat by arbalests. A 7 IF character is anything but squishy.


Xbows are definitely too strong. I disagree with magi on longbows though. I have more of a problem with teammates shooting me in the back with them.


My opinion: Lower damage on xbows globably by about 10%, and add wpf requirement to all xbows except for hunting. the arbalest should require about 108 wpf, heavy should require 72, regular should require 96, light should require 84.

reasoning behind those numbers: all other ranged weapons have a wpf requirement attached to them. Want to use a shitty over-nerfed throwing lance? You currently need a minimum of 78 wpf after the weight malus. Long bows carry a similar requirement, but I don't have the exact number for it. Xbows not only carry no wpf requirement, but they can be used incredibly effectively with 0 wpf in them. No other ranged weapon in the game can make this claim.

The numbers given for the wpf are based off what a reasonable PD or PT requirement would be on any other throwing weapon. Arbalest is simply godly accurate and godly damaging, so its comparable to about a 9 PT throwing lance pre-ubernerf. The heavy crossbow is very effective, but clearly outshined by most other crossbows due to its 2 slot drawback, so it gets a very minimal 72 wpf, or the equivalent of  5-6 PT. The regular xbow is only usuable on foot, but only takes up a single slot, so it gets a reasonable 96 wpf (easily obtainable by hybrids.) Light has the benefit of being used on horseback, but lacks high damage, so its in-between a heavy xbow and a regular xbow.



the tl;dr version: All other ranged weapons require a wpf investment, making xbows unbalanced. Xbows are easily on par, if not stronger than bows, but carry little to no drawbacks. Unless xbows gain any sort of real requirement, eventually the vast majority of all players will have some sort of ranged weapon.

[Magikarp]

Maybe you dont agree on the Longbow, but the facts are there: in my lordly kuyak + plate mittens + 5 ironflesh + 18 str, I (almost) get oneshot by Arbalests and two shot most of the time by longbowmen.

Which is retarded.

[Sultan Eren]

Maybe you dont agree on the Longbow, but the facts are there: in my lordly kuyak + plate mittens + 5 ironflesh + 18 str, I (almost) get oneshot by Arbalests and two shot most of the time by longbowmen.

Which is retarded.

+1