THE GREAT CAVALRY NERF/BUFF (BURF)

[Casimir]

these changes would make the destrier pointless, at the moment it cuts the fine line between maneuverability and health, if these changes took place it would need to gain health else no-one would use it for being too slow and being so hard to control.

[Magikarp]

I second this notion.  Tired of lance-cav being gayer than archers....

Guess what, you are gayer than both! 

Anyways, I don't see any problems with the current cavalry, except for a few points:
- Lancers are best on light horses, because they don't need armour and hp, but the ability to avoid enemies, hit and get the fuck out of there, mostly because of their slow weapons.
- Onehander/2hander cav are best on armoured horses, because they need more armour/hp to bumpslash people.
- The courser needs a small armour nerf, it''s a little bit too sturdy right now imo.

Things that are ok:
- Arabian is really quishy and not OP as before. 2 arrows kill my well bred one, I'd say that is ok. Melee strikes usually dehorse me.
- Lancers as a class are ok, why? They have slow weapons, can't take shields unless they take 1 slot weapons and thus are quite vulnerable and not able to do lightning fast u-turn strikes anymore.

To change the situation, I propose, like I did before, to buff armoured horses a tiny bit and reduce their upkeep. We'd see a little bit more 1hander/2hander cav instead of lancers.

Big nerfs as some propose are out of the question, people who propose those are just not used to seeing a normal amount of cavalry players on servers. I'd say the only classes which need big changes atm are throwers(buff), xbowers(do way too much damage) and archers(too accurate with 9 pd longbow builds).

~Magikarp

[Glyph]

if the upkeep of armored horses is just as much as a courser's or arab's, than more onehanded cav will be introduced. so more cav diversatie and less ninja lancers. this would stop the whining and make me happy being 1handed cav! , i love armored horses and i wanna ride them like a beast . armored horses aren't accesable atm and that should be changed. you should be able to have equipment like this:

large warhorse
mail with surcoat
long arming sword
knightly heater shield
mail mittens
mail chausses
bascinet

ofc. with this gear you shouldn't be able make a lot of profit. but it should be do-able

[Magikarp]

if the upkeep of armored horses is just as much as a courser's or arab's, than more onehanded cav will be introduced. so more cav diversatie and less ninja lancers. this would stop the whining and make me happy being 1handed cav! , i love armored horses and i wanna ride them like a beast . armored horses aren't accesable atm and that should be changed. you should be able to have equipment like this:

large warhorse
mail with surcoat
long arming sword
knightly heater shield
mail mittens
mail chausses
bascinet

ofc. with this gear you shouldn't be able make a lot of profit. but it should be do-able

+1, the large warhorse sucks compared to Cataphract atm though, it needs more speed.

Biggest problem with cav is upkeep, why go for a class that has more upkeep, leaving your cash drained while the stats aren''t worth it?

[Glyph]

i think cata needs to keep more man. but give large warhorse more spped and almost even armor

[Huey Newton]

Horses could use a little maneuver nerf.
And from what I've seen, the people who get the most kills (not best cav) don't use the same horse.
In NA high kills are achieved by the courser
In EU (from my moderate time playing there) the Arabian warhorse is the main horse.

You an ask yourselfs, what's the bigger problem, the coursers speed or the arabians turning ability?


Also nerfing speed on horses and increasing armor and hp cancel themselves out. Horses use speed to dodge arrows and get out of the way. Making them slower makes them easier targets.
Therefore you've done nothing to balance horses.

Weeee

[ToxicKilla]

I agree with this. But don't decrease speed on armoured horses, they're already shit slow. Just decrease maneuver and add a little more HP and armour. The speed is perfect as it is.

Edit: Also, the charger should have the most charge damage of all the Armoured horses. (maybe the same as a plated.)

[SkyrayFox]

Also nerfing speed on horses and increasing armor and hp cancel themselves out. Horses use speed to dodge arrows and get out of the way. Making them slower makes them easier targets.
Therefore you've done nothing to balance horses.

The point is not to 'balance' horses but as the title of the thread suggests BURF them or simply said change their statistics accordingly so their main role changes from stealthy batman ninjas to chargers. I would love to fight alongside infantry in my charger, live a little bit longer and die in glory of the battle instead of sneaking on poor peasants and archers from behind. Long story short there should be different types of horses for different roles, fast ones with poor HP for ninja action behind enemy lines and warhorses with stronger armor and hp but very poor maneuver. Right now you can only play the former unless you can afford the elephant.

[Glyph]

agreed, the only cav you can be atm is ninja. and that's also the reason why there aren't so much onhanded cav, because onehanded cav isn't the sneaky ninja style. because they need a way to get up-close to infantrie and smash them. so not would this idea give more variatie to lancers, but also to the different weapon kinds used from horseback. another reason to add this idea.

BTW, when will the next patch be? in august, september, okt, nov, next year!(i know there isn't a date set, but just an estimaition)

thx

[PhantomZero]

This isn't really true anymore,

With the speed nerf, the best lancers use a Light or Normal Lance and ride a Champion Arabian Warhorse.

[Overdriven]

Just to question things. Does anyone remember preupkeep/heavy horse nerf when they were everywhere and bump slashed/bump killed everyone. I feel that by boost HP/Armour of medium horses, even with a manoeuvre reduction, you would simply return us to this.

[Kafein]

Just to question things. Does anyone remember preupkeep/heavy horse nerf when they were everywhere and bump slashed/bump killed everyone. I feel that by boost HP/Armour of medium horses, even with a manoeuvre reduction, you would simply return us to this.

So for you, there's nothing balanced inbetween ? I bet you just want your loved JetPony untouched.

[tankmen]

i don't ride the courser, i ride the palfrey(1) at X1-2, the destrier(1) at X3-4 and a charger(3) at x5. I only ride the charger at x5 because if it breaks and the round took four minutes i only lost 1800 gold rather than 2800, unless my armor break then i lost another 970. That is the reason i heir loomed the charger, if I'm playing 2.8k for repair, its going to be the best it can be for repair. Now why did i state this? to point out im not a ninja cavalry, most my kill are from the front, i do kill people from behind but more often than not they are running from me trying to get better ground. i still don't under stand why people back stab when you can out reach then from the front....

[MountedRhader]

To make everyone happy, I propose this:

1. Heavier horses should gain speed and hp, and lose maneuver and upkeep (by a proportional amount).

2. Lighter horses in general, and the people who still like to use light cavalry tactics (which is completely ok imo) and horse archery would still have viable horses to do so.

 The problem with heavier/armoured horses is with the severe weakness in comparison to lighter horses. There is a major imbalance. Heavy Cavalry/Knights are almost non-existent in a game that was made for them (hence Mount&Blade).

Most of the lower horses like Palfrey or Rouncey do their job well. Arabian, Steppe, and Desert are a bit too maneuverable. Courser has bad-average maneuver, bad being when at full speed, average being when slowed or not moving. Destrier simply isn't worth it due to the ugly reddish color (which is easily spotted), the average maneuver, only around 20 extra hit points, and the doubled cost. Rouncey has comparable stats to this horse, and costs less than half. All Warhorses are way too slow, and are too maneuverable. Their cost outweighs the awesome effect, and they usually die faster due to extreme slowness. Putting on a 60-100 lb coat of mail (which is evenly distributed) on a 840 to 1,200 lb warhorse, especially bred for war, should not slow it down that much.

[ToxicKilla]

To make everyone happy, I propose this:

1. Heavier horses should gain speed and hp, and lose maneuver and upkeep (by a proportional amount).

2. Lighter horses in general, and the people who still like to use light cavalry tactics (which is completely ok imo) and horse archery would still have viable horses to do so.

 The problem with heavier/armoured horses is with the severe weakness in comparison to lighter horses. There is a major imbalance. Heavy Cavalry/Knights are almost non-existent in a game that was made for them (hence Mount&Blade).

Most of the lower horses like Palfrey or Rouncey do their job well. Arabian, Steppe, and Desert are a bit too maneuverable. Courser has bad-average maneuver, bad being when at full speed, average being when slowed or not moving. Destrier simply isn't worth it due to the ugly reddish color (which is easily spotted), the average maneuver, only around 20 extra hit points, and the doubled cost. Rouncey has comparable stats to this horse, and costs less than half. All Warhorses are way too slow, and are too maneuverable. Their cost outweighs the awesome effect, and they usually die faster due to extreme slowness. Putting on a 60-100 lb coat of mail (which is evenly distributed) on a 840 to 1,200 lb warhorse, especially bred for war, should not slow it down that much.

+1 Awesome for you.
You see, this man speaks sense! People on this game for some reason think that armour weighs as much as giant iron girder or something. And like I said earlier, charger need moar charge!
The destrier should have much more HP and more charge damage, and a cost reduction.