Author Topic: xbow trouble  (Read 2509 times)

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Offline sharker807

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xbow trouble
« on: June 08, 2011, 07:02:16 pm »
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having real trouble aiming and killing with my mw arbalast  the past week or so, it was was fine then all of a sudden i just can't hit anything, somthing aint right, anyone else having this problem

Offline Deadlysiins

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Re: xbow trouble
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2011, 01:20:26 am »
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Had the same problem.....turns out it was rain....Rain decreases the accuracy and damage by 25%
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Offline Chaos

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Re: xbow trouble
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2011, 01:51:22 am »
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Rain makes things worse. And sometimes when the server is having a bad day, shots seem to pass through people without making contact with their hitboxes, as well as extra apparent shot deviation over long range.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 03:57:52 am by Chaos »

Offline Tzar

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Re: xbow trouble
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2011, 03:09:46 am »
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Can you read the letters at the buttom  :?:mrgreen:

If you can maybe you just had a shitty day and tommorow you will be fine again eveyr1 have bad days  :wink:

PS rain sucks for all builds granted ranged suffer the most i guess  :|
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 03:14:06 am by Tzar »
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline Canary

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Re: xbow trouble
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2011, 04:17:05 pm »
+1
Had the same problem.....turns out it was rain....Rain decreases the accuracy and damage by 25%

Actually, it decreases the shoot speed of the bolt, not the accuracy. And I'm not sure the damage reduction is even 25%, as bows only get reduced by 10% damage. Bows incidentally do not receive the shoot speed penalty, though, so maybe the crossbow damage penalty is bigger as well.


Offline Jarlek

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Re: xbow trouble
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2011, 04:45:38 pm »
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Actually, it decreases the shoot speed of the bolt, not the accuracy. And I'm not sure the damage reduction is even 25%, as bows only get reduced by 10% damage. Bows incidentally do not receive the shoot speed penalty, though, so maybe the crossbow damage penalty is bigger as well.
The shot speed also affects the damage. I think the total damage reduction for xbows in rain is about 1/3 or something. Yeah, xbow sucks in rain.
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Re: xbow trouble
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2011, 04:48:22 pm »
+1
The shot speed also affects the damage.

If this is true, I'd like to hear you explain throwing weapons.

Offline Jarlek

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Re: xbow trouble
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2011, 07:21:43 pm »
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If this is true, I'd like to hear you explain throwing weapons.
Well throwing weapons are weapons like axes/spears/knives/javelings and the like, which instead of hitting people with them (as on does with a sword) or shoot them from something (like one does with a bow) but are instead THROWN from the user. Fascinating idea, right?

Here's a video of how one does it. The weapon used is a Javelin, a short spear designed to be thrown.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgFR5kLtoYY

:P

But I'm guessing your wanting to know about how they work ingame? The reason that throwing made so much damage was that any throwing build had 6+ power throw, which gave them 60% bonus damage. (Anything less than 6 PT and you are were a hybrid)
Add that throwing weapons also had more base damage than bows and xbows don't have any way to increase damage, they could do VERY high damage. This is why they were not that dependent on projectile speed as archers and xbows.
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Re: xbow trouble
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2011, 07:25:48 pm »
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Actually, it decreases the shoot speed of the bolt, not the accuracy. And I'm not sure the damage reduction is even 25%, as bows only get reduced by 10% damage. Bows incidentally do not receive the shoot speed penalty, though, so maybe the crossbow damage penalty is bigger as well.

I'm pretty sure bows get a shoot speed reduction in additon to damage, just like xbows.  My bow definitely doesn't shoot as far in the rain and tends to glance/bounce morea t longer distances.
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Offline Jarlek

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Re: xbow trouble
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2011, 07:56:35 pm »
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I'm pretty sure bows get a shoot speed reduction in additon to damage, just like xbows.  My bow definitely doesn't shoot as far in the rain and tends to glance/bounce morea t longer distances.
That is correct but the penalty is even bigger for crossbows. All characters get gimped in rain, but xbows the most and I think cav the least.
This game isn't about being skillful as much as its about saying things in general chat that enrage people who then go to murder you but in their rage they make dumb mistakes which gets them killed.
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Offline Canary

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Re: xbow trouble
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2011, 11:20:48 pm »
+1
But I'm guessing your wanting to know about how they work ingame? The reason that throwing made so much damage was that any throwing build had 6+ power throw, which gave them 60% bonus damage. (Anything less than 6 PT and you are were a hybrid)
Add that throwing weapons also had more base damage than bows and xbows don't have any way to increase damage, they could do VERY high damage. This is why they were not that dependent on projectile speed as archers and xbows.

Well actually, I looked into it (60% really isn't that large of a damage bonus, their base damage isn't that high), and here's what I discovered: lower projectile speed weapons get a larger damage increase from a positive speed bonus, and higher projectile speed weapons get a smaller increase from it.

...the damage bonus from target movement speed is rather low compared to weapons with lower projectile speed. Reason for that is that the bonus is calculated based on which percentage the movement speed has compared with the shot speed. For a high shot speed weapon like a sniper crossbow the possible movement speeds are small and thus the bonus damage is small too. Throwing weapons profits the most if the target is running into the shot because of their low projectile velocities.

There's also this whole big deal about air friction reducing projectile speed and reducing damage from it, and gravity also playing a part in projectile damage.

Quote
The damage of projectile also depends on the projectile speed. In the module.ini file there is also a switch that determines if this speed bonus scales linearly or quadratically. It has a significant effect on the damage, especially if it scales with power of 2. The bigger bows have a higher shot speed.
Oh god, no. The ingame speed-damage relation is only there to dermine damage gain or loss if the impact damage differs from the starting damage. That means if the projectile is fired point blank and does not alter its speed on the way, the damage is not related at all to the "shot speed".
However if a projectile is fired over a bigger distance or uphill it loses speed and thus damage. On the other side shooting at a lower target might increase the damage, especially if the initial shot speed is low like it is the case for a throwing weapon.

The ingame calc is based on the concept of kinetic energy(Ekin = 1/2 * m * v^2), that means the damage-speed relation is almost a square(^1.9) one.

Here some examples to make it clear. I'm using the square relation.

impact_speed = k * starting_speed
impact_damage = k^2 * normal_damage


1.
A crossbow is fired point blank at a target. The air friction can't lower the projectile speed significantly. Furthermore there is no height difference between shooter and victim.
k=1
impact_speed = starting_speed
impact_damage = normal_damage

2.
An arrow is fired at a far away target and scores a lucky hit. However the projectile velocity is lowered to 60% by the air friction during the flight.
k=0.6
impact_speed = 0.6 * starting_speed
impact_damage = 0.36 * normal_damage

3. A slow shot speed throwing weapon is thrown down a high wall and hits. The air friction can be neclected because of the short distance but gravity increases the speed greatly compared to the starting speed. It is 80% faster on impact.
k=1.8
impact_speed = 1.8 * starting_speed
impact_damage = 3.24 * normal_damage

4. From the same wall a heavy crossbow is fired. Again, the friction can be neclected but because of the initial high shooting speed of the crossbow, the fall can only increase the projectile speed by a small percentive(1%).
k=1.01
impact_speed = 1.01 * starting_speed
impact_damage = 1.02 * normal_damage


The short of it is that rain sucks. Running slow sucks, shooting inconsistent with your spec's normal performance sucks, it sucks. I wish it'd happen less often.

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Offline ShinySpoons

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Re: xbow trouble
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2011, 02:49:34 am »
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I think Paul mentioned in a wpf discussion that rain descreases wpf of xbows by 15% or something like that. I don't remember any other prof being mentioned.

Offline Canary

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Re: xbow trouble
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2011, 05:06:07 am »
+1
I think Paul mentioned in a wpf discussion that rain descreases wpf of xbows by 15% or something like that. I don't remember any other prof being mentioned.

I just looked through all pauls posts and didn't see anything like this, I would like to know ever so much just exactly how rain treats these items beyond the 10% damage penalty that bows get (and throwing, too? I forget).

Nearest I found in reference to this is
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1357.msg28466.html#msg28466
Where Fasader just mentions them being at "75% efficiency" during rain (which is also second-hand information  :rolleyes:) which could mean nearly anything.

I'm pretty sure bows get a shoot speed reduction in additon to damage, just like xbows.  My bow definitely doesn't shoot as far in the rain and tends to glance/bounce morea t longer distances.

This goes to show you how much I practice archery. The fact that power draw increases the missile speed makes it less noticeable, though, maybe.

Offline Paul

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Re: xbow trouble
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2011, 06:42:17 am »
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As far as I know crossbows get  their damage AND speed reduced to 75% during rain. Bows get damage AND speed reduced to 90%. The speed reduction does NOT result in a further damage loss if I am not mistaken.

WPF was not decreased during rain last time I checked.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 06:44:47 am by Paul »

Offline Canary

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Re: xbow trouble
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2011, 08:12:10 am »
+1
Thank you so much, so, so much. Clearing up all these mechanics mysteries helps us all, the spread of misinformation and basement rumors is far too prevalent.

Do you also happen to know to what degree rain decreases runspeed by, as an aside?


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