Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)

[Kafein]

I lol'd. There's some good postin' in this here thread.

I hope you're being sarcastic 

[Duerkos]

It's nice to see that everyone thinks throwing is nerfed now. I hope it gets a buff for dedicated throwers.

[Bjord]

And now they will buff it into the great heavens. Splendid...

[The_Bloody_Nine]

a) this data is not used for doing balance decisions  . who came up with that in the first place? That would be horrible, of course.

[Thomek]

Why not have release some stats of kills/deaths/wep types/builds/playerpops/generations etc, perhaps even connected to the data-set?

If you would connect K:D Ratio and W:L Ratio, Class and player experience represented by xp/gen you could make some stats actually useful for deciding the battle-power (or siege, but that's a bit different stats) of a class, or even the exact weapon or armour..

My prediction is that from a pure K:D ratio perspective or you would probably find pure 2h and polearms.

This is because most players want the extra challenge of manual blocking after some time, and because those classes reward and punish your personal skill the hardest, and therefore are the most satisfying to play for an Elite player.

Now, if you take playtime/XP of the player into the calculation you could see how a 1h+shield with the same game-experience as a 2h does it. My prediction is that the shielder would come out on top, simply because the shield makes you die much less.

Also, by counting in W:L ratios of players you could get a measure of team usefulness and uselessness. Finally all those non-lethal but staggering arrows in the back of someone in a duel can be counted for!

I do believe it should be possible to calculate this.. If we could dig up the right data. This data might not be available however, and may need to be recorded somehow.

Give it to the community, and I'm sure some clever folks here could make good use of it, making it presentable in an informative way. I remember back in the day chadz presenting stats of what class killed the others the most, how the classes were distributed among players, what class had the best K:D Ratio etc etc..

We could get information like:

What is the most effective noob class for K:D ratio and W:L Ratio?
What is the most effective  average xp class for K:D ratio and W:L Ratio?
What is the most effective Elite player class for K:D ratio and W:L Ratio?

What is the best class to kill a shielder with at different skill levels?
What is the best class to kill a 2h with at different skill levels?

What is the single weapon with the best K:D ratio overall? What is it mostly beaten by?
etc etc, use your imagination..

This information is important to give to the players of cRPG, because game balance is a kind of self-balancinga market. If more cav pops up because its currently OP, more people will bring pikes etc, in order to survive. A well informed market is a better market, with better transparency players are able to make better decisions, and to truly see what is OP and not. If something is truly OP without counters- it will stand out in the stats quicker, and devs will be able to correct it faster.

Besides, it gives us something to pass the time with before strategus..

[Bjord]

(click to show/hide)

Why not have release some stats of kills/deaths/wep types/builds/playerpops/generations etc, perhaps even connected to the data-set?

If you would connect K:D Ratio and W:L Ratio, Class and player experience represented by xp/gen you could make some stats actually useful for deciding the battle-power (or siege, but that's a bit different stats) of a class, or even the exact weapon or armour..

My prediction is that from a pure K:D ratio perspective or you would probably find pure 2h and polearms.

This is because most players want the extra challenge of manual blocking after some time, and because those classes reward and punish your personal skill the hardest, and therefore are the most satisfying to play for an Elite player.

Now, if you take playtime/XP of the player into the calculation you could see how a 1h+shield with the same game-experience as a 2h does it. My prediction is that the shielder would come out on top, simply because the shield makes you die much less.

Also, by counting in W:L ratios of players you could get a measure of team usefulness and uselessness. Finally all those non-lethal but staggering arrows in the back of someone in a duel can be counted for!

I do believe it should be possible to calculate this.. If we could dig up the right data. This data might not be available however, and may need to be recorded somehow.

Give it to the community, and I'm sure some clever folks here could make good use of it, making it presentable in an informative way. I remember back in the day chadz presenting stats of what class killed the others the most, how the classes were distributed among players, what class had the best K:D Ratio etc etc..

We could get information like:

What is the most effective noob class for K:D ratio and W:L Ratio?
What is the most effective  average xp class for K:D ratio and W:L Ratio?
What is the most effective Elite player class for K:D ratio and W:L Ratio?

What is the best class to kill a shielder with at different skill levels?
What is the best class to kill a 2h with at different skill levels?

What is the single weapon with the best K:D ratio overall? What is it mostly beaten by?
etc etc, use your imagination..

This information is important to give to the players of cRPG, because game balance is a kind of self-balancinga market. If more cav pops up because its currently OP, more people will bring pikes etc, in order to survive. A well informed market is a better market, with better transparency players are able to make better decisions, and to truly see what is OP and not. If something is truly OP without counters- it will stand out in the stats quicker, and devs will be able to correct it faster.

Besides, it gives us something to pass the time with before strategus..

Big +1.

[Kafein]

All what Thomek said. But I think you're praying in the desert.


To add something, I'd like to point out that some classes don't follow the usual prey-predator dynamic system, like cav and pikes do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equation for more info). Archers (and crossbows) for example tend to become more tempting as their numbers increase. That's why in Native, the best class to play is archer, because everyone else is archer.

[Keshian]

All what Thomek said. But I think you're praying in the desert.


To add something, I'd like to point out that some classes don't follow the usual prey-predator dynamic system, like cav and pikes do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equation for more info). Archers (and crossbows) for example tend to become more tempting as their numbers increase. That's why in Native, the best class to play is archer, because everyone else is archer.

I was going to say cav, because you can rack up a lot of kills killing archers using coursers.  Too fast for them to get at most 1 shot off if you charge and then you can 1-hit kill them before they can switch to a melee weapon.

[Kafein]

I was going to say cav, because you can rack up a lot of kills killing archers using coursers.  Too fast for them to get at most 1 shot off if you charge and then you can 1-hit kill them before they can switch to a melee weapon.

You make several not so realistic assumptions there :

- The archer doesn't headshot the courser
- The archer doesn't jump away (and succeeds)
- The map allows this charge
- There are no (or very few) other archers watching the attacked one.


On a courser even 2 or 3 archers are enough to bring you down. And on regular battles you can often find 5 or more archers in position to cover each other (yet unorganised archers don't do that often, despite it's effectivenes). Archers have the best potential for teamwork. Btw, I think you know that already, old Strategus proved it and I don't see how it's going to be any different with the new one.

[Chris_P_Bacon]

How could I be the only 2h/pole/shield character? xD

[Ujin]

You make several not so realistic assumptions there :

- The archer doesn't headshot the courser
- The archer doesn't jump away (and succeeds)
- The map allows this charge
- There are no (or very few) other archers watching the attacked one.


On a courser even 2 or 3 archers are enough to bring you down. And on regular battles you can often find 5 or more archers in position to cover each other (yet unorganised archers don't do that often, despite it's effectivenes). Archers have the best potential for teamwork. Btw, I think you know that already, old Strategus proved it and I don't see how it's going to be any different with the new one.

This whole statement is absolutely correct. Keshian, you seem a tidy bit biased, mind me saying.

[Templar_Ratigan]

And now they will buff it into the great heavens. Splendid...

If it makes you cry I think we're all more than happy. 

[Bjord]

If it makes you cry I think we're all more than happy. 

Oh hush, before I make you cry. You know I can. 

[22nd_King_Plazek]

I am the only 2h/throwing/cav/ha
I am the only one I know
The only 2h/throwing/cav/ha
In myyyyyyy tribe


Cool data

[Riddaren]

Great work filtering out all biased votes.
I'm sure the result will be closer to the truth than if you would accept all votes.

However, if some class has more "biased votes" than another you might take those a bit more seriously.
Just take the number of biased votes in percent and compare all classes.

I think I'm #693. Voted to buff throwing only. But just a little or it will just have to get nerfed again.

---

Btw...

It's hard to not get bored and feel hatred against all of these stupid buff/nerf threads filled with posts by players that are unaware of their surroundings and refuses to understand that teamplay is often the only solution to come winning out of certain situations. It's like some players have forgot (or never learned) what it means to have different classes...


With that said, all balance suggestions coming from bad players should be ignored. They will only hurt the teamplay and class based system and ultimately make the game so stupid that everyone will have to be able to counter anything with any weapon and have the same K:D ratio... is that what we want?

With the increasing number of new players coming to this game it's important to not listen to them.
New players will learn eventually and when they have learned they don't want an "easy" game.

Let's make the difference between the classes even bigger, forcing us to make use of teamplay even more! Making the game smarter/harder. Not dumber and easy mode.