Author Topic: Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)  (Read 26982 times)

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Offline kinngrimm

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Re: Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)
« Reply #90 on: June 03, 2011, 04:03:39 pm »
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I think the data can still be useful if its interpreted in a  non naive way. There ware still things that can be extracted from it even with some deliberately casting shit votes to gain advantage and those casting shit votes due to poor grasp of the bigger picture.
+1

If things like alt chars and their classes and the generation switch to another class is taken into account for measuring the survey and what should be done about it, my guess it really can help the devs to come to some conclusions for themselves. Just think about the process they have had before with less data to judge on their hands.

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Offline kinngrimm

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Re: Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)
« Reply #91 on: June 03, 2011, 04:07:54 pm »
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You can't determine who is objective,subjective or ignorant.

Everyone is subjective, objectivity is an ideal we can reach out for but never actually reach. It helps to have more data and being aware of its nature.
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Offline Konrax

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Re: Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)
« Reply #92 on: June 03, 2011, 04:22:00 pm »
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I am a shield user and I voted to buff shields mainly because they ninja nerfed the shield heirlooms after the reset.

Lost like 75 health and 5 armour on my masterpiece knightly heater shield!!!!

=(

Offline TomFoolery

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Re: Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)
« Reply #93 on: June 03, 2011, 04:38:44 pm »
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Everyone is subjective, objectivity is an ideal we can reach out for but never actually reach. It helps to have more data and being aware of its nature.

Yes in it's essence an opinion can only be subjective. There is even a new paradigm of thought emerging that suggests the reality around us is purely created through the eyes of the observer; eliminates all possibility of objectivity. But thats a conversation for another place. :)

Yes more data could help, alot more, and maybe over a longer period.
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Offline chadz

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Re: Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)
« Reply #94 on: June 03, 2011, 07:25:00 pm »
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From having a quick look in the thread, I feel it's necessary to post this:

a) this data is not used for doing balance decisions  :lol:. who came up with that in the first place? That would be horrible, of course.
b) No one is getting "rewarded" or "punished" for voting in the wrong way. Jeez...

Offline Keshian

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Re: Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)
« Reply #95 on: June 03, 2011, 07:25:18 pm »
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Wow, the self-righteousness in this thread almost caused another smug cloud that could take san francisco and south park all over again, lol.  The guy was just being honest and trying to let you know that there are probably a lot more people like him (and the data kind of supports that), which means its no great loss to take out the votes of people buffing their own class to get a more accurate figure of what needs to be done.  If it legitimately needs buffed the people from other classes will show a positive anyway so even if you did it without an ulterior motive in mind its no great loss to lose those votes.

By the way I wonder how many of the horse buffs were for +5% hitpoints/armor, because other than a few oblivious cavalry guys almost no one thinks courser and arabian warhorse need +5% speed/maneuverability.  If it was just those last 2 issues being considered it would have probably switched from buff to nerf.  Cav also is a big category adn would also have showna  difference in voting between armored and unarmored horses.  Just like people voting on 1hers would vote differently between the high-end picks and warhammers as opposed to the swords.  Hard to get that kind of exactness though.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 07:27:27 pm by Keshian »
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)
« Reply #96 on: June 03, 2011, 09:01:39 pm »
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By the way I wonder how many of the horse buffs were for +5% hitpoints/armor, because other than a few oblivious cavalry guys almost no one thinks courser and arabian warhorse need +5% speed/maneuverability.  If it was just those last 2 issues being considered it would have probably switched from buff to nerf.  Cav also is a big category adn would also have showna  difference in voting between armored and unarmored horses.  Just like people voting on 1hers would vote differently between the high-end picks and warhammers as opposed to the swords.  Hard to get that kind of exactness though.

It's really the first thing that could be improved in further surveys like this, splitting existing categories and adding new ones. Splitting polearms between 4 and 2 attack directions, cav between armored (over destrier) and unarmored horses, 1h between swords and others, bows and crossbows between 1 and 2 slots... but also adding categories for nerfing/buffing attributes and skills.

Balance usually requires very subtle, precise and progressive changes do be done right, afterall.


EDIT (after reading the rest :D) :

I don't understand why your matrix isn't symetric. To me 1H AND 2H = 2H AND 1H
It seems to be something wrong if the the boolean Operator AND is no more commutative

It's not the same thing since the results are like this :

(how many are 1h / how many 1h also are 2h)

that's not the same thing as :

(how many are 2h / how many 2h are also 1h)



Furthermore, with the argument about selfishness, I'd like to point out that it doesn't seem like people want to buff themselves that much. At least, very far from everyone vote for buffing themselves, and the values are usually along the lines of the votes of other classes. When the votes of "biaised" people is high, the global vote is high too.


Code: [Select]
Class -> Vote(buff)
             horseschange   armorchange    1hchange       2hchange       polechange     shieldchange   thrownchange   bowchange      xbowchange     
          1h 0.244094488189 0.145669291339 0.350393700787 0.062992125984 0.035433070866 0.212598425197 0.248031496063 0.098425196850 0.098425196850
          2h 0.180602006689 0.177257525084 0.150501672241 0.270903010033 0.050167224080 0.086956521739 0.237458193980 0.103678929766 0.080267558528
        pole 0.275735294118 0.194852941176 0.161764705882 0.091911764706 0.180147058824 0.128676470588 0.253676470588 0.099264705882 0.073529411765
      shield 0.230215827338 0.147482014388 0.334532374101 0.068345323741 0.053956834532 0.208633093525 0.262589928058 0.082733812950 0.097122302158
      archer 0.154411764706 0.117647058824 0.147058823529 0.073529411765 0.022058823529 0.029411764706 0.264705882353 0.426470588235 0.058823529412
        xbow 0.214285714286 0.119047619048 0.250000000000 0.130952380952 0.047619047619 0.130952380952 0.250000000000 0.119047619048 0.273809523810
    throwing 0.130434782609 0.152173913043 0.195652173913 0.130434782609 0.043478260870 0.065217391304 0.652173913043 0.130434782609 0.043478260870
         cav 0.384905660377 0.203773584906 0.207547169811 0.098113207547 0.105660377358 0.105660377358 0.237735849057 0.162264150943 0.075471698113
          ha 0.325581395349 0.162790697674 0.139534883721 0.000000000000 0.023255813953 0.023255813953 0.255813953488 0.418604651163 0.093023255814
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 09:20:48 pm by Kafein »

Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)
« Reply #97 on: June 03, 2011, 10:06:20 pm »
0
I am a spearman and i think spears should have a small buff (ofc  :twisted: ), so far i have only seen my spear nerfed. At first i think it was about 100 speed, wich maybe needed a nerf, but now it is also 2 slot and got -2 damage nerf wich i think was a little bit too much since it didn't really need to be nerfed more.

Polearms with cut should not have the polearm stun imo, wich is why i think they should be nerfed.

2h weapons are fine atm imo.

Throwing may need a buff, maybe increase the amount of junk in the quiver and it should be fine.
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Offline Paul

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Re: Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)
« Reply #98 on: June 03, 2011, 10:28:58 pm »
-1
We don't use the poll for balancing. We do it the old way, throwing dices.

Offline Bjarky

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Re: Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)
« Reply #99 on: June 03, 2011, 10:37:59 pm »
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We don't use the poll for balancing. We do it the old way, throwing dices.
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Offline Cosmos_Shielder

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Re: Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)
« Reply #100 on: June 04, 2011, 01:54:01 am »
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We don't use the poll for balancing. We do it the old way, throwing dices.
Maybe you should throw some throwing lances. With 8 Power throw i don't even kill archer. Have you ever seen a 8 power strike not allowed to swing his weapon only two time , and not able to kill archer?

Offline TomFoolery

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Re: Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)
« Reply #101 on: June 04, 2011, 04:53:32 am »
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We don't use the poll for balancing. We do it the old way, throwing dices.

Now that would be AWESOME. Fook skill, have some dice.

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Offline Joxer

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Re: Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)
« Reply #102 on: June 04, 2011, 08:02:41 pm »
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b) No one is getting "rewarded" or "punished" for voting in the wrong way. Jeez...

This selfless xbowman wanted to buff armor and throwing, not himself! A reward will be handed out to him.
Code: [Select]
xbow;;;;;;xbow;;;;0;1;0;0;0;0;1;0;0

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Offline Templar_Ratigan

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Re: Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)
« Reply #103 on: June 04, 2011, 08:08:22 pm »
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So will I get a reward since this character is a low armoured one hander with no shield, who voted to buff thrown and armour?

Of course this character no longer exist  :(.

So what then?
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Offline KaMiKaZe_JoE

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Re: Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)
« Reply #104 on: June 06, 2011, 06:58:09 pm »
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I lol'd. There's some good postin' in this here thread.
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