There is nothing wrong with ranged.....

[Corsair831]

Shield is a good counter to Archers, but not to Xbow.

Archers have to sacrifice melee and movement to do ranged damage, which in the end still ends up to be less dmg than xbows.

Xbow can flank and kite you with 9 athletics, and still be proficient and deadly in melee while doing the highest range damage in the game. They can even wear heavy armor and 1 shot snipe you across the map. There are no drawbacks with this OP class.

We all know why Xbowers won't get nerfed because that's all the balancers play. If it wasn't OP people wouldn't be playing it as much as they do now, it's that simple.

Drawbacks are you can't be super effective with heavy armour (lowers WPF), and have to put a lot of WPF in to crossbow to be accurate

[Rando]

tl;dr - nerf archery and throwing, crossbow has been nerfed enough.

[Grytviken]

tl;dr - nerf archery and throwing, crossbow has been nerfed enough.

I hardly see any throwers, it would be absolutely dumb to nerf them. Archery already has severe drawbacks of no mobility or melee capability. Xbow Damage is still way higher than any of them despite being able to kite and do very good melee damage. 2H cut has been nerfed and armor soak changed again so Xbow is still the highest damage, and has the least amount of drawbacks. It's stronger than old Agi Archers ever were .

[Rando]

I hardly see any throwers, it would be absolutely dumb to nerf them. Archery already has severe drawbacks of no mobility or melee capability. Xbow Damage is still way higher than any of them despite being able to kite and do very good melee damage. 2H cut has been nerfed and armor soak changed again so Xbow is still the highest damage, and has the least amount of drawbacks. It's stronger than old Agi Archers ever were .

Are you serious? Desire has personally tested throwing extensively, and found that throwing lances deal more damage than an arbalest. To say throwers have no mobility is ridiculous, as is saying they have no melee capability - the weapons have a secondary mode for melee which is totally viable. I'm shocked you would suggest that throwing has no mobility or melee capability, how is it possible to be this wrong?

[Leesin]

Get a shield only makes a difference if you know how to use it

And it doesn't matter how well you use it, if you're being shot at from more than one direction by any decent archer or xbow player ( yes not just some random nub who don't time their shots well ), they stand a good chance at hitting you. I mean honestly mate barely anyone is playing again now, the most I have seen is 20-30 which was last week and a ton of those were ranged, which just puts some people off as soon as they join the server and see that it's a ranged fest, I see people write it in chat and they just leave. Can I deal with it personally? yeah sure, I even play without a shield on my Horse and I get hard ons when I backstab ranged players, but when I look at EU1 and it's pretty much dead 24/7, I can't even be bothered to join knowing half or more of the few players are probably just playing medieval counter strike.

[Tristan_of_Erzoth]

Xbows do more damage on a per shot basis, but archery can do more damage in a second. Most builds let you get ~3 shots off with a high str archery build which will end up outputing more damage than an arb. I don't have exact numbers off the top of my head but I could probably get them if I want, they are in one of the other thousand range rage thread. Dispell this retarded notion of "xbows do more damage than bows and throwing" because its only true if you refuse to look at the whole picture

[Gurnisson]

He believes it's stronger than old agi archery. In other words, he's completely delusional.

[Grytviken]

Xbows do more damage on a per shot basis, but archery can do more damage in a second. Most builds let you get ~3 shots off with a high str archery build which will end up outputing more damage than an arb. I don't have exact numbers off the top of my head but I could probably get them if I want, they are in one of the other thousand range rage thread. Dispell this retarded notion of "xbows do more damage than bows and throwing" because its only true if you refuse to look at the whole picture

That's what's being discussed, " the whole picture ". Archers can't kite, but a 15-27 Xbower can, Archers can't melee, but a 15-27 xbower can. Xbow does more damage and can kite people around. Those are all huge advantages in the whole picture. They can do the highest ranged damage and not have to sacrifice mobility, accuracy and melee like an Archer.

When people say get a shield, I'm saying you can't catch a 27 agility xbower because the shield weight slows you down.

[Corsair831]

And it doesn't matter how well you use it, if you're being shot at from more than one direction by any decent archer or xbow player ( yes not just some random nub who don't time their shots well ), they stand a good chance at hitting you. I mean honestly mate barely anyone is playing again now, the most I have seen is 20-30 which was last week and a ton of those were ranged, which just puts some people off as soon as they join the server and see that it's a ranged fest, I see people write it in chat and they just leave. Can I deal with it personally? yeah sure, I even play without a shield on my Horse and I get hard ons when I backstab ranged players, but when I look at EU1 and it's pretty much dead 24/7, I can't even be bothered to join knowing half or more of the few players are probably just playing medieval counter strike.

Sounds like the main problem with the game is that the cRPG community doesn't like cRPG/is too stubborn to counter ranged and RQ instead

I get shot from 2 directions all the time, and i rarely die from ranged compared to deaths in melee. Missile travel time is so slow in cRPG that you can just look behind you and catch his arrow on your shield when he shoots

[Nightingale]

Odd How many stf xbowmen are level 33-34?

Are you trying to suggest that my 3 ps 5 ath build with 9 wm at level 30 is 'op'... or are you suggesting an 8 ath 9 wm xbow build with 0 ps is capable of meleeing?

Or are you suggesting that a level 34 build shouldn't be effective at the class they have predominately spec'd into?

all of these possibilities baffle me. perhaps you mean 15-24.... but even then at level 30 this build isn't -that- impressive and by design its a glass cannon. it is not until higher levels that 15-27 becomes 'functional'

In all; you are over exaggerating as per usual to appeal to mass idiocy. Which is an equally baffling strategy that you get results with.

15-27 is a hilarious build for a level 30 to try to pull off outside of siege and strat battles. I would suggest next time to do a bit more research before whining.

on top of this xbow has already received hefty nerfs yet you are pretending because "balancers only play this class" which is a far cry. that no nerfs can happen. I suggest looking back and viewing all of the xbowmen's tears when they realized I nerfed the shit out of the class. Even your precious daveUKR suggested lowering the strength requirements to give xbowers back -something- after such heavy nerfs.
 Its insane to me that just after a short while people forget hefty nerfs.

[Grytviken]

Yes the STF will be sniper only, but it doesn't take much effort to get to lvl 31-32 or higher which is where these become way more versatile than just a sniper, which is the problem ( free respecs every week it isn't hard ). Now you don't just have a CS GO awper that does the highest range damage in the game, they can also kite and melee.

Maybe it was intended that the hybrids would utilize the smaller crossbows and not all use the AWPs ( heavy xbow and arb ) , but there's no reason not to since they will all turn into a competent melee hybrid that can also kite like the old agi archers with a little leveling.

How anyone can think Archers are OP is beyond me, they simply cannot kite or run away from shielders, or flank them at any speed. Sure they might do high damage ( still not as much damage as Arb), but that's ALL they can do. An Xbower doesnt need the protection of their team because they are the FASTEST foot soldiers in the game as it is, an Archer on the other hand is dead meat if their team abandons them or shielders target them.

What we have with this current balance is that CRPG feels more like Napoleonic Wars or CS GO while these easy to make hybrids dominate range and are good enough in melee to more than hold their own + kite.

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When you say you nerfed Xbows it's laughable. You nerfed ALL weapons by changing armor soak, XBOWS STILL DO THE MOST DAMAGE, the weapons that were weaker than xbow before do even less damage as well. Considering you can still 1-2 shot people with ARB i'd say nerfing all other weapons was just another buff to xbows and more reason to play them now than ever.

Nerfing the accuracy and then lowering the requirement really cancels out that accuracy nerf as well. I've been sniped across the entire map by DAVEUKR and killed by a headshot with 60 head armor and 24 str, i've never had a thrower do me like that 

[Leesin]

Sounds like the main problem with the game is that the cRPG community doesn't like cRPG/is too stubborn to counter ranged and RQ instead

I get shot from 2 directions all the time, and i rarely die from ranged compared to deaths in melee. Missile travel time is so slow in cRPG that you can just look behind you and catch his arrow on your shield when he shoots

I'd say it was the fact that this is old news, CRPG is a pensioner in gaming terms, the mod doesn't have any of the charm it used to have, people have done this shit countless times before. They dealt with the ranged shit in the past because there were things that they liked. Now the same people join the server with 20 players on, 12+ are ranged, it's probably worse than it ever was, they just quit because no reason to deal with that shit any more. That's good for you mate but I see plenty of good shielders getting rekt by ranged, and people that only carry a shield for ranged defense ( 2h, polearm etc ) usually don't have enough shield skill to deal with being shot from multiple directions constantly, regardless.

I didn't respec away from HA for shits and giggles, I did it because I could see there was something really unhealthy about the amount of ranged on the server, too bad it didn't really make a difference because mod is already ded again.

[Grytviken]

Just add the muskets and guns at this point, it's better than some poor soul believing the  "just get a shield" meme and getting kited by horse archers and marathon runner arb players and rage quitting.

I actually go to napoleonic wars mod now if I want a good melee fight, I actually get killed by range less there and EVERYONE has a fucking gun.

[Tristan_of_Erzoth]

Just add the muskets and guns at this point, it's better than some poor soul believing the  "just get a shield" meme and getting kited by horse archers and marathon runner arb players and rage quitting.

I actually go to napoleonic wars mod now if I want a good melee fight, I actually get killed by range less there and EVERYONE has a fucking gun.

I havent seen you nor be an archer in like a year lol. And archers can definitely kite, ive seen you oyourself just turn around and run away from me and i cant do shit

[Nightingale]

arbalest is not the most damaging weapon in the game. With 5 ps most mid to high tier melee weapons will out damage arbalest. High tier throwing out damages arbalest and 10 pd archers are just slightly less damaging. A 9 pd archer can also sport  5 wm 5 ath and go upwards of 9 ps with a side arm of their Choosing.