Buff Franciscas

[Corsair831]

Buff Franciscas please

Compare them to e.g. Javelins, and they're just inferior in every way,

https://imgur.com/a/WAQFg

https://imgur.com/a/v9aj0


Basically the same accuracy,
Much slower moving through the air (so a lot harder to hit your target),
Smaller model/length (meaning less chance to hit, as a part of the model has to connect with the enemy to damage),
Far far far less damage (37 cut against 32 pierce),
A lot slower to reload (21 against 17), so you can throw your next javelin a lot faster than your next axe,

There's just no reason to use them at the mo'

Please buff them at the mo' there's no reason to use them over Jav's

Suggestion: Maybe make them a bit more accurate and reload quite a bit faster than Jav's so there's a reason to use them

[Casul]

TBH I still prefere francisca over jav.

more ammo, much less weight, and more effective against cav (unless elephant), which is my main enemy when playing a thrower in general. + It can actually be used in melee modus.

They are probably indeed overall weaker against the average enemy, but I guess we dont need to balance everything into one tier if theres cases which still make this one specific item more viable than the counterpart.

[Gravoth_iii]

Throwing is so damn terrible it doesnt matter if you get buffs on fransicas anyways, its about as trashy as archery except you put yourself in more risk and completely gimp yourself to even use it.

[Thryn]

Throwing is so damn terrible it doesnt matter if you get buffs on fransicas anyways, its about as trashy as archery except you put yourself in more risk and completely gimp yourself to even use it.

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[bensai]

IMO the strength of the throwing axes, particularly the franciscas, is their ability to counter other throwers/cav/archers better. i have an 18/18 thrower/shielder alt and I can carry a hand pavise shield and 18 franciscas (6 ammo per slot). Cav can only attempt to horsebump you, archers can only try to kite you (but u got a shield and ranged of your own) and other throwers, unless they are using axes as well, won't be getting through a shield. Plus CUT damage means your strength is against light armored opponents (ranged and horses).

also think of your melee ability when you have to engage enemy archers/throwers/infantry in melee. just give them a couple blocks/attacks, bait them into trying to s-key you since you're a shielder, and then S KEY THEM RIGHT BACK and throw axes back at them

shield thrower may have had some 'nerfing' done to it, but it's still more than viable, it's probably the best global counter-class (horse archers can't even do shit 2 u xdd)

[Gristle]

Before I even looked at the pictures, I knew why your reasoning was flawed. Look at the difference in upkeep. Javelins cost twice as much. That's a significant change in the throwing catagory. Of course javelins are objectively better.

[Corsair831]

Before I even looked at the pictures, I knew why your reasoning was flawed. Look at the difference in upkeep. Javelins cost twice as much. That's a significant change in the throwing catagory. Of course javelins are objectively better.

but everyone has basically unlimited money at this point so the upkeep doesn't really matter so much

[Gristle]

but everyone has basically unlimited money at this point so the upkeep doesn't really matter so much

That's a separate issue that needs to be addressed. Maybe if they removed gold and all need for it, items could be balanced differently.

[Corsair831]

That's a separate issue that needs to be addressed. Maybe if they removed gold and all need for it, items could be balanced differently.

Regardless, having tried to use them for over a fortnight with various builds, and having tried various other throwing weapons alongside them and previously, I can confirm that they are utterly useless and just completely not worth ever using compared to the current META, Javelins (which are easily the best throwing weapon at the moment, and the only one you ever really see throwers get a vaguely positive KDR with).

Just a slight buff to Franciscas (and maybe throwing axes in general), just to make them actually worth ever using would definitely go a long way.

The buff I suggest is increasing the Accuracy and the reload speed (called Speed in the stats), to make them competitive with other throwing weapons

[//saxon]

just give them a couple blocks/attacks, bait them into trying to s-key you since you're a shielder, and then S KEY THEM RIGHT BACK and throw axes back at them

ahhh i raged just thinking about it, that's just such an annoying playstyle  if it works, it works thou 

[Corsair831]

IMO the strength of the throwing axes, particularly the franciscas, is their ability to counter other throwers/cav/archers better. i have an 18/18 thrower/shielder alt and I can carry a hand pavise shield and 18 franciscas (6 ammo per slot). Cav can only attempt to horsebump you, archers can only try to kite you (but u got a shield and ranged of your own) and other throwers, unless they are using axes as well, won't be getting through a shield. Plus CUT damage means your strength is against light armored opponents (ranged and horses).

also think of your melee ability when you have to engage enemy archers/throwers/infantry in melee. just give them a couple blocks/attacks, bait them into trying to s-key you since you're a shielder, and then S KEY THEM RIGHT BACK and throw axes back at them

shield thrower may have had some 'nerfing' done to it, but it's still more than viable, it's probably the best global counter-class (horse archers can't even do shit 2 u xdd)

Yeah, so that doesn't work.

I tried a variety of builds, and by far the most effective was level 32 12/27, with which over a week managed to get around a 1.3kdr on, using iberian mace for melee damage (don't even try to kill an average player with franciscas in melee), 3 shield skill and 145 1h/throwing.

That's compared to my normal build of level 32 18/21 hoplite sword shield, with which i average ~~2-2.5kdr, everything heirloomed on both classes. Quite clearly the melee was a lot better. It's ~~ 3-4 franciscas to kill an archer, and sometimes ~~5-6 to kill normal tanky players. Javelins are usually ~~2-3 and 4-5, as well as being much much much easier to hit with, and you only get 1 more ammunition with franciscas to compensate for that (which is clearly not worth it). So again, no point in taking the franciscas (and tbh very little point in taking throwing in general; there's so much hate against archers, when's the last time you actually saw a player doing really well with throwing?).

I've honestly had cases, wearing almost no armour, +3 franciscas and 145 throwing, where i've missed 3 axes in a row stood ~~2-3 metres from someone who was stood still with the reticule right on them. It's ridiculous, they're just almost impossible to hit with, and when they do, they do practically no damage.

Just buffing their accuracy and reload speedwould go a long way to making them a viable weapon

[Gravoth_iii]

Ye, if axes had really fast throwing speed then they would be a viable option. A large issue with throwing is how long it takes to put down a shield, throw and then pull it up again.

[bensai]

ahhh i raged just thinking about it, that's just such an annoying playstyle  if it works, it works thou 

of course i dont condone such action. it's just sometimes the server fills up with a bunch of little cucks and you have to cuck them right back

[Sandersson Jankins]

the biggest buff that throwing axes of all varieties could use is fixing whatever went horribly wrong that removed them sticking out from the bad guys when you hit them

[Corsair831]

the biggest buff that throwing axes of all varieties could use is fixing whatever went horribly wrong that removed them sticking out from the bad guys when you hit them

This ^

Also, they're impossible to hit so you don't really see that