The Ranged Problem.

[Yeldur]

BIG ANOUNCMUNT

ok guise i hereby confirm that i will be engaging in an experiemtn, a DANGFERUS experitment that may even give me CANCER but im wiling to do it to help the crap pe ge player base


i will delve into the life of a newbie archer and see what it is TRULY LIKE for these annoying CUNTBAGS


tyvm

i will update u when i know more



it is signed, i can only approved,

ladodada, hater of archers, jumper of walls, uwuwu of uwu's, killer of babies.


(psst ay yo if u got any cancerous archer builds hit me up on discord or pm me here i'm fucking retarded and have no idea how to build an archer)

[Larvae]

Since my wife is playing crpg again more often,i tried to play with her archer (24/18 MW Rus Bow/War Bow and Bodkin Arrows on her computer).

For a Heavy Guy (Plate overall) i need like 8-10 Arrows ,which im shooting slowly as i have only 6 wpm (her char is lvl 32).

For a Medium Guy its about 4-5 Arrows  and for a light guy like 2-4 Arrows.


Archery is more of a supportclass nowadays,kills happen but more because of luck then skill or dmg of the bow.
Also hitting a head is like only possiible if u are really close to the enemy,on mid distance u need like 2-4 tries till u hit but in this time the enemy notice u and run.

As u have to use 24 str to deal a lil amount of dmg,her char uses kinda no athletics as u cant run away with those stone arrow bags (weight),hitting  on huge distance is luck and u need atleast 4 or more IF as Archer to survive a bolt (after getting hit with around 30 body armor and 5 IF  there is about 15% HP left) .

[Algarn]

BIG ANOUNCMUNT

ok guise i hereby confirm that i will be engaging in an experiemtn, a DANGFERUS experitment that may even give me CANCER but im wiling to do it to help the crap pe ge player base


i will delve into the life of a newbie archer and see what it is TRULY LIKE for these annoying CUNTBAGS


tyvm

i will update u when i know more



it is signed, i can only approved,

ladodada, hater of archers, jumper of walls, uwuwu of uwu's, killer of babies.


(psst ay yo if u got any cancerous archer builds hit me up on discord or pm me here i'm fucking retarded and have no idea how to build an archer)

30/12, level 32/3
One Handed: 5
Archery: 120

Weapon Master: 4
Athletics: 4
Power Strike: 5 (8 if 33)
Power Draw: 10

Use a Yew Longbow only.

27/15, level 32/33
One Handed: 40
Archery: 129

Weapon Master: 5
Athletics: 5
Power Strike: 4/7
Power Draw: 9

Use longbow/rus bow, and not yew longbow.

You can go full ranged and put no melee wpf nor PS, which will make you worthless at anything but ranged, so be advised if you choose that path.

For both builds, keep the effective weight level below respectively 10 and 9, remember that the effective weight multipliers for wpf penalties are 1 for body armor and boots, 2 for helmets and 6 for gloves. Pick any 1h sword/mace you feel comfortable with, and never pick anything else than bodkin arrows, loomed if possible; note that your bow must be loomed as well, unless you like to hurt yourself. Have fun and good luck.

Feel free to PM any additional question about your suffering.

[Gurnisson]

i'm not arguing for a damage nerf like some would assume on the arbs, but how is it fair for pistachio to deal strong damage at range and strong damage in cqc while sexy furry cannot?

Because archers have massively increased rate of fire and can kite when engaged, while still using their ranged weapon.


Xbows haven't been bothering me much when I've played lately, though I mostly play ranged myself, as either a thrower or an archer. If xbows are a problem as a sidearm, then an exponential curve for reloading time based on wpf would help. Drastically increase reload time at low wpf, similar reload speed with relatively high wpf investment and increased reload speed with very high investment (where you've had to sacrifice much of your melee capabilities to even reach the wpf amount). Don't know if anything like this would be possible.

Increasing drawbacks for heavier armour could be useful as well. A crossbowman should be able to perform better in melee than an archer, or even a thrower,  based on kiting capabilities. With the slots being as they are and with a change to the weight-based wpf formula, xbowmen would in general be less protected and have worse weaponry than an infantryman.

[Beleg]

Because archers can kite when engaged, while still using their ranged weapon.

no they can't, they haven't been able to for years. not unless they play like a 18 str build where your arrows tickle your medium armor enemies, and your plated opponents give you the same treatment the girl I like gives me; pretending I'm not there.

[Gurnisson]

no they can't, they haven't been able to for years. not unless they play like a 18 str build where your arrows tickle your medium armor enemies, and your plated opponents give you the same treatment the girl I like gives me; pretending I'm not there.

Kiting =\= infinitely kiting.

You can kite people far with a 24/18, which is the build I'm using now. When you finally get engaged, you look for the opportunity to equip the bow again, either by the infantryman trying to use his superior range too much in melee, or by using a defensive nudge. While kiting an infantryman without a shield, you can kite him (almost) infinitely if you hit with every arrow you fire. If it's a shielder, your best hope would be sheathing all your weapons and run. Don't run with your bow out, it slows you down too much.

[Paul]

With 27 str, +3 weimar helmet, +3 heavy gauntlets, +3 Gothic plate with Bevor a body shot while running towards an xbow brought me down to 20% health. Headshot was instant death. This was a week ago when I tested it.

I think its fixed now.

Once again, running speed does next to nothing to damage because of the high shot speed of the arba.

[Grytviken]

Once again, running speed does next to nothing to damage because of the high shot speed of the arba.

Yea it was distance from the target + armor soak being off causing the huge damage. Do you mean the target's running speed or the shooters running speed or both, Example: shotgunning a target up close where the shooter and target are both moving.

[Paul]

Yea it was distance from the target + armor soak being off causing the huge damage. Do you mean the target's running speed or the shooters running speed or both, Example: shotgunning a target up close where the shooter and target are both moving.

Arba projectile speed is 1.2*item_shot_speed= 72m/s I think. The exponent of the missile speed related damage calc has been changed to 1.0 in cRPG, thanks Tydeus. It's in the module.ini. That means it boils down to the rule of three:

damage_post_speed_calc = default_damage * impact_projectile_speed / default_projectile_speed
damage_post_speed_calc =  (default_projectile_speed + shooter_speed¹ + victim_speed¹ - speed_loss² ) * default_damage / default_projectile_speed

1: assuming shooter and victim move towards each other
2: speed loss thorugh drag or gravity when shooting upwards, can add damage when shooting downwards

In this example we shoot point blank so speed loss is 0. Then lets assume both are on a courser with 6 riding(10m/s, yes we actually measured it at some point), playing chicken. So the extra speed is 20m/s.
We would then have:
damage_post_speed_calc(horse_arba_hacker) = default_damage * (72m/s + 20m/s) / (72m/s) = 1.28 *default_damage
So 28%damage increase.

For a bit more realistic example we have both moving towards each other on foot with maybe 2m/s. So:
damage_post_speed_calc(plebs) = default_damage * (72m/s + 4m/s) / (72m/s) = 1.06 *default_damage
6% more damage.

It's all in our head.




 

[Osiris]

almost every melee weapon a strength build would utilize does by far more damage on average than the arbalest. Even before we toyed with armor soak values. Morningstar especially does almost double the damage output. Arbalest was only able to 1 shot very light armored individuals highly dependent on the targets iron flesh and strength. (basically, everything you said is false)

We are toying with armor soak and damage type multipliers so you should notice that xbow is less damaging. averaging anywhere between 18-41 depending on the armor you roll with.

and how will this effect my 9pt stone thrower? will i start doing 0 damage?

[Sagar]

After last patch it is not possible to make a kill with xbow.
I use +3 Arbalest and +3 Steel Bolts - best combination (not to mention that other xbows and +3 Bolts are useless) and I cant kill someone even with 25 to 35 body armor?

Increased weight, lower accuracy, slower speed rating and 4 slots?
I don't know what is new change with damage but now It is impossible to make a kill.
Playing 2 days already, I hit the opponent but cant kill anyone. I didn't make a even 1 kill with Arbalest ?? (remember 1 headshot, but that is not the point).

This class right now don't have any sense.
+3 Arbalest and +3 Steel Bolts need to be 1shot or rally heavy damage anything till heavy armor (50+ body armor).

Right now you really cant do anything with xbow class (best combination) .... beside targeting above 30 body armor opponents on server, but I'm not sure that is a purpose of most heavy xbow class in this mod.

This is just my feedback from last 2 days.

[Butan]

You hit the same people twice in a round, at least once? After the update it might became harder to one-shot everything (I didnt read the patch logs in details), but it definitely hits hard still. Using arbalest+3 and bolts+3 on a strategus siege yesterday with a pure melee build and had some nice score and a couple kills from it (nothing extraordinary I agree).

[Leesin]

Inb4 hordes of XBowers complaining they can't 1 hit kill everything in sight now.

[Ikarus]

damage declines a lot when the enemy is far away or moving away from you (another point why I try to get closer instead of trying to snipe), there's sometimes even a chance that even a peasant survives an arba shot if he's really lucky (could also be a fake peasant with lots of STR/IF)

+3 arba and +3 steel bolts give you a high chance to one shot lightly armored enemies, but it's by far no warranty

it's not impossible to make kills, it's just harder now

[Yeldur]

Released a new update to my archery experience: http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/the-ranged-experience/new/#new

#shamelessselfpromo


I might look into doing one on xbows after i've finished with my archery one but i'm not really sure because i really dislike xbows as they're so boring to play.