Prohibition 2018

[McKli_PL]

... internet gambling and stock trading regulated, as does pretty much any decent country

hmmm so going by this way of thinking Murica is not a very decent country same with Uk 

[Jona]

While it is definitely great to see a huge company try to employ a pay-to-win method and fail (ea + battlefront 2), I hope that smaller devs like psyonix (makers of rocket league) who are profiting off of it don't get hurt too much. They're doing it the way all companies should imo, selling optional cosmetic items in exchange for continuous free updates. You could argue that despite the size difference, Blizzard's OW team is operating in much the same capacity (the only difference being no trading between accounts). Adding items that actually impact gameplay in these crates, that's where they need to draw the line.

[Leshma]

They could change to fixed price model for their cosmetic merchandise instead of employing loot boxes which give randomized items. This is going against gambling, not microtransactions in general. Clash of Clans charging in range of thousands of dollars to be competitive isn't affected by it because they don't use loot crates for most of the things, just regular boosters and items sold for gems which are purchased by real money.

I know many people consider loot boxes fun, because gambling is indeed fun but law must be all encompassing to minimize abuse and even cosmetic loot boxes which in no way impact gameplay will come in hand with boosters and other items which affect player chances. But I don't doubt there will be creative ways to exploit those laws.

I'm mostly bothered that gaming went from an innocent form of entertainment created by enthusiast developers to this gargantuan industry where nothing is sacred.

the only difference being no trading between accounts

That's a big deal actually. It will except trading card games from these laws, because players can trade cards between them. Only locked to account items will be regulated from what I've read.

[Jona]

That's a big deal actually. It will except trading card games from these laws, because players can trade cards between them. Only locked to account items will be regulated from what I've read.

Yeah it's huge, but since both OW and RL are cosmetic-only, it isn't like you can have your rich friend pay-to-win for the both of you. "Trading" card games (more commonly called collectible card games) are a different matter, since electronic versions (i.e. hearthstone) don't actually let you trade cards, they're all account locked (hence it's a ccg, not tcg). I also find it funny that only account-locked items will be regulated, since then we get the nonsense that is the CS marketplace where skins go for absurd amounts of money because "trading" (selling) is allowed.

[Thryn]

regulation on this stuff isn't going to protect the consumer, the government is going to use it ultimately as a way to increase revenues

if u want this stuff to stop you have to convince consumers to not purchase it

[Oberyn]

I'm mostly bothered that gaming went from an innocent form of entertainment created by enthusiast developers to this gargantuan industry where nothing is sacred.

You're a few decades late on that. Considering lootboxes as gambling the equivalent of Prohibition is a perfect Leshmanism though, congrats.

Simplest solution as it always has been is for gamers to not willingly bend over to get fucked, but that's never gonna happen. There's no consumer base more willing to get pissed on than gamers. Despite EA being a literal death camp for some of the best studios and franchises of the history of gaming, despite endless whining and drama from gamers, EA is still going to keep doing what it does, because it's profitable.

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/ea

Look at the stock over the past few years. If you bought EA stock at any point in the past few years, you don't complain, cause it's fucking rock solid. And companies such as EA couldn't give less of a shit about their consumers, who they can fuck over repeatedly and will still keep coming back for seconds, "thank you sir may I have another?". Only thing they care about is their stockholders and keeping that little line as deep in the black as they can.

[McKli_PL]

regulation on this stuff isn't going to protect the consumer, the government is going to use it ultimately as a way to increase revenues

if u want this stuff to stop you have to convince consumers to not purchase it

exactly fuck education of youngsters, gieb shekels and it will be so 'transparent' if lootboxes will be moved to servers on Cuprus, Maldives etc much regulations

[McKli_PL]

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/ea

yep same is with Activision/Blizard good old stock even if Ea will drop in a couple of months (the probability of profit taking is big) market makers will short it and still get money from downtrend, win-win situation.

[Vibe]

hmmm so going by this way of thinking Murica is not a very decent country same with Uk 

what are you talking about

UK

The Gambling Commission  which answers to the government’s Department for Culture, Media, and Sport regulates the industry (with the exception of spread betting which is regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority) under the terms of the Gambling Act of 2005. Among other things they ensure that operators which offer gambling services, including online, meet the necessary standards.

Feel free to check the Gambling Act of 2005 yourself: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/19/pdfs/ukpga_20050019_en.pdf

4 Remote gambling
(1) In this Act “remote gambling” means gambling in which persons participate by
the use of remote communication.
(2) In this Act “remote communication” means communication using—
(a) the internet,
(b) telephone,
(c) television,
(d) radio, or
(e) any other kind of electronic or other technology for facilitating
communication.



For US it's a bit more complicated due to laws on different levels, but it's still regulated https://www.gamblingsites.com/online-gambling-jurisdictions/us/

And if you think stock markets aren't regulated you're in for a surprise.

[McKli_PL]

For US it's a bit more complicated due to laws on different levels, but it's still regulated https://www.gamblingsites.com/online-gambling-jurisdictions/us/

And if you think stock markets aren't regulated you're in for a surprise.

heh my friend how 'Finra' works i know that over the last 14 years, sure disagreeing dat markets are deregulated is very naive but the problems are like u mention on 'different levels', it's not so easy which regulation defines current laws especially if it comes to internet there are still huge problems when in one country some activities on market are strictly forbidden but in other are in 'grey' area(mirroring), i can give u very easy and simple example how loops in regulations on marketplace can be missguiding: on OTB market on Nyse, trader is buying aftermarket shares on some stock (Finra regulation nothing shady) in same hour he can resell it using Ecn with darkpool option to shanghai market (it will be a premarket sell due to different time zone) so wich regulation comes first?
so debating that there are regulations in some sectors is one thing, bigger problem is how they are protected and obeyed in real life  circumstances especially if it comes to internet and huge money potential to grab

[Oberyn]

Eh a Grey defending being an underhanded shady prick because hey, if it's possible to do it then not taking advantage of it is just dumb! I may die of shock. What, you just gonna let those OTHER sociopathic bastards get away with putting one over you? If you can't beat them, join them.

I like many things about modern eastern european cultures that are consequences of the struggles they underwent under soviet rule, but one of the things I find despicable is this tendency to exploit loopholes, justify corruption and to admire those that manage to do so. The bureaucracy is not ALWAYS just an excuse for "elites" to screw over everyone else, only if your bureaucracy is fundamentally broken in the first place.

[Vibe]

heh my friend how 'Finra' works i know that over the last 14 years, sure disagreeing dat markets are deregulated is very naive but the problems are like u mention on 'different levels', it's not so easy which regulation defines current laws especially if it comes to internet there are still huge problems when in one country some activities on market are strictly forbidden but in other are in 'grey' area(mirroring), i can give u very easy and simple example how loops in regulations on marketplace can be missguiding: on OTB market on Nyse, trader is buying aftermarket shares on some stock (Finra regulation nothing shady) in same hour he can resell it using Ecn with darkpool option to shanghai market (it will be a premarket sell due to different time zone) so wich regulation comes first?
so debating that there are regulations in some sectors is one thing, bigger problem is how they are protected and obeyed in real life  circumstances especially if it comes to internet and huge money potential to grab

Yeah, there's loopholes, grey areas and potential for abuse in just about anything in life. Still better than not having stuff regulated, like lootboxes in gaming are right now. Though personally I don't give much shit about regulating these from the perspective of gambling, it's more of a personal interest to get these as far away from gaming as possible, or even just to see EA get fucked.

[Thryn]

You're a few decades late on that. Considering lootboxes as gambling the equivalent of Prohibition is a perfect Leshmanism though, congrats.

Simplest solution as it always has been is for gamers to not willingly bend over to get fucked, but that's never gonna happen. There's no consumer base more willing to get pissed on than gamers. Despite EA being a literal death camp for some of the best studios and franchises of the history of gaming, despite endless whining and drama from gamers, EA is still going to keep doing what it does, because it's profitable.

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/ea

Look at the stock over the past few years. If you bought EA stock at any point in the past few years, you don't complain, cause it's fucking rock solid. And companies such as EA couldn't give less of a shit about their consumers, who they can fuck over repeatedly and will still keep coming back for seconds, "thank you sir may I have another?". Only thing they care about is their stockholders and keeping that little line as deep in the black as they can.

ye ur right on a quite a few points, but if you are looking to invest in gaming industry then doing some research on the companies will ultimately benefit you. take cd projekt red for example, they went out and made a game that really made gamers happy. they made really awesome decisions and how were they rewarded?

http://markets.businessinsider.com/stock/CD_Projekt_RED-Quote

i think its folly to say that gamers will continue to be ass blasted when ea goes on reddit and gets 600,000 downvotes because they pissed off people who bought battlefront 2. its possible that someone will wise up and stop making idiotic decisions when they realize they could become so much more profitable if they listened to their customer base.

remember the shit that steam tried to pull with skyrim paid mods? that dumpster fire got extinguished pretty damn early. now all that's left is to tell bethesda to fuck off with their bullshit creation club paid mods garbage.

[Thryn]

but one of the things I find despicable is this tendency to exploit loopholes, justify corruption and to admire those that manage to do so. The bureaucracy is not ALWAYS just an excuse for "elites" to screw over everyone else, only if your bureaucracy is fundamentally broken in the first place.

whats wrong with exploiting loopholes? it's how business is, it's how it always will be. in order to maintain a successful enterprise, you need to maximize profits. whenever government shoves its dick into something with regulations, by default someone is going to find a way around it to save some money. i think this kind of highlights the fallacy that lots of people use to advocate for huge bureaucratic governments. they like to believe that business, especially big business, hurts the working man by underpaying and under-privileging him. to counter this, they try to use governmental authority to punish these businesses in a glorious act of social justice. to them, it's the great Business vs Government conundrum, where the righteous government can put a stop to the wicked acts of the greedy capitalist pig.

i think if you look deeper though, you find that there is no Business vs Government battle. Business wins everytime. Goverment puts out a regulation, businesses find a loophole. Hell, in the US, businesses spend billions of dollars to lobby members of Congress to grant them special permissions, its why we have 70,000 page income tax code in US (according to taxfoundation.org) as well as an insanely corrupt government. in soviet russia, the government was the business man, and that turned out fantastic for everyone. i think history shows us that wherever bureaucracy rears its head, those below the elite class are ALWAYS screwed. bureaucracy fundamentally inhibits individual liberty, making it broken no matter what (unless you think individual liberty isn't an important ideal).