Author Topic: GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 7 - SPOILERS INSIDE - 7/16/2017  (Read 30150 times)

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Offline Xant

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Re: GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 7 - SPOILERS INSIDE - 7/16/2017
« Reply #150 on: August 02, 2017, 03:06:19 pm »
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They are both fantasy worlds neither one of them are a "documentary" but you find it more incredulous that a ballista is being used as a dragon killer in your precious GoT and not in Reign of Fire or vice versa? And by the way the dragons in both GoT and RoF look very similar in size and appearance and I actually think RoF are better as it was made in 2002.
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Re: GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 7 - SPOILERS INSIDE - 7/16/2017
« Reply #151 on: August 02, 2017, 03:22:31 pm »
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Spaghetti legs is going to psionically mind fuck a dragin.
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Offline Asheram

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Re: GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 7 - SPOILERS INSIDE - 7/16/2017
« Reply #152 on: August 02, 2017, 03:58:38 pm »
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Out of interest, have you ever taken an IQ test? I find it difficult to differentiate between the 80 IQ and 100 IQ people, and I was wondering which you're closer to.
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« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 04:24:40 pm by Asheram »
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Offline Xant

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Re: GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 7 - SPOILERS INSIDE - 7/16/2017
« Reply #153 on: August 02, 2017, 04:51:29 pm »
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I'm willing to believe that a ballista could kill a dragon. There were dragons before in GOT and they managed to mop them up somehow, to the point where everyone thought they were extinct.

And hitting a fast-moving, flying target with a ballista isn't a trivial thing.

Finally, I'm not up-to-speed with all the ins and outs of GOT dragon lore, but her dragons are still young right? Or would they be considered full-grown already? It's a fairly common fantasy convention for dragons to be long-lived and grow gradually larger and stronger throughout their entire lives, whilst her dragons are 6/7 years old?
If ballistas are all it takes to kill dragons, three dragons wouldn't have let the Targaryens conquer Westeros. Either that, or the Westerosi are retarded. The whole introduction of it is weird, like they had a secret nuke program and then the maester proudly goes........ "BEHOLD! A FUCKING BALLISTA!"

Remember where Cersei's maester demonstrates the ballista on the dragon skull, the biggest of them all? It pierces it easily, implying that it'd work against dragons of any size. Otherwise what was the point of that demonstration?

The entire lore around dragons is that they're unstoppable. Everyone treats them that way, and the history of the setting backs it up. Balerion died of old age. Balerion killed dragons like Quicksilver. Dragons like Vhagar died as a result of wounds sustained in battle with other dragons as well. They weren't mopped up by people using ballistas.

And yes, hitting a dragon with a ballista, launching a large and slow projectile, seems like a dubious proposition at any rate. I hope they at least have a few dozen of them instead of just having one and going "lol this one slays dragons."
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Offline Jona

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Re: GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 7 - SPOILERS INSIDE - 7/16/2017
« Reply #154 on: August 02, 2017, 06:32:21 pm »
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(click to show/hide)

How do we know this isn't the very first ballista ever invented in Westeros? Have they been seen before on the show or mentioned in the books? It's quite possible that they simply had no ranged weapon strong enough to pierce a dragons' scales/skull until we saw Qyburn's demonstration. You act as though GoT is expected to have identical technology as we did during the medieval era, yet they have stuff we didn't and perhaps vice versa.
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Offline Asheram

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Re: GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 7 - SPOILERS INSIDE - 7/16/2017
« Reply #155 on: August 02, 2017, 07:25:11 pm »
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Maybe the demonstration was to stop them shitting themselves by pretending it'll work. Morale etc.

Big daddy dragon had magic scales when he was alive, and you'd probably never get the chance to fire at the dragons as a stationary target on the battlefield, certainly not at a controlled range. Kinda like the 'longbow' tests that fire at point-blank range at a flat piece of tinfoil and conclude they can pierce any plate from any range.

I'm just saying against baby dragons as a one-off, I would believe a lucky ballista shot at decently close range could take one down. At least that wouldn't be as much of a cop-out as a character nobody ever heard of turning up out of nowhere and gunning down the ultimate dragon with a black arrow (I'm looking at you Tolkein).
And that black arrow was fired from a normal bow not even a ballista.
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Offline Xant

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Re: GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 7 - SPOILERS INSIDE - 7/16/2017
« Reply #156 on: August 02, 2017, 07:46:39 pm »
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How do we know this isn't the very first ballista ever invented in Westeros? Have they been seen before on the show or mentioned in the books? It's quite possible that they simply had no ranged weapon strong enough to pierce a dragons' scales/skull until we saw Qyburn's demonstration. You act as though GoT is expected to have identical technology as we did during the medieval era, yet they have stuff we didn't and perhaps vice versa.
You mean how do you know. I know because I know the lore.

Maybe the demonstration was to stop them shitting themselves by pretending it'll work. Morale etc.

Big daddy dragon had magic scales when he was alive, and you'd probably never get the chance to fire at the dragons as a stationary target on the battlefield, certainly not at a controlled range. Kinda like the 'longbow' tests that fire at point-blank range at a flat piece of tinfoil and conclude they can pierce any plate from any range.

I'm just saying against baby dragons as a one-off, I would believe a lucky ballista shot at decently close range could take one down. At least that wouldn't be as much of a cop-out as a character nobody ever heard of turning up out of nowhere and gunning down the ultimate dragon with a black arrow (I'm looking at you Tolkein).

You'd expect the scales to play a big part yes, but then the demonstration would be literally pointless. But the fact it pierced the skull was the centerpiece of that whole scene. It wasn't just for morale simply because of how TV works. You don't make a scene like that if if the intent is for a character within a story to convince another character within a story that something is true. It was meant to convince the viewers, which the composition made very clear.

The dragons that were young but just old enough to be ridden, in the lore, were all killed by other dragons, save for one or two whose deaths weren't detailed. There is an account of a scorpio hitting one dragon in the eye with a lucky shot (the lore says "lucky", not my addition) which killed it. But you don't call something the secret weapon against dragons if you need a lucky shot and it's been done once in history, and you're fighting three dragons.

The point is this: because they've presented this weapon as the answer to the dragon problem, you can rest assured we'll see it work against Daenerys' dragons. It working is believable in the setting, if you get very lucky, but it being presented as the answer is not. The characters are treating it as "well, that's the dragon problem solved, there" kind of thing.

IF they employ dozens of those things it'll be better, as it becomes more believable one bolt gets through. But it still wouldn't make sense given the setting's history with dragons and conquests.

Still a lot better than the Hobbit, of course.
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Offline Havelle

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Re: GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 7 - SPOILERS INSIDE - 7/16/2017
« Reply #157 on: August 02, 2017, 10:33:20 pm »
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I saw a video awhile back that explains that since dragons were a thing, it stalled the progress of technology because dragons were a thing and made siege equipment useless. But they also have crossbows in universe and I believe I saw trebuchets, so idk about that theory, but they could also be recent advancements since the extinction of dragons. Will find and link later

Offline Asheram

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Re: GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 7 - SPOILERS INSIDE - 7/16/2017
« Reply #158 on: August 02, 2017, 10:55:16 pm »
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We all know the best way to kill a dragon is to pull its heart out with your bare hands...
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Offline Jacaroma

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Re: GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 7 - SPOILERS INSIDE - 7/16/2017
« Reply #159 on: August 03, 2017, 06:05:47 am »
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wtf did i just watch  :?: :?:

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Re: GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 7 - SPOILERS INSIDE - 7/16/2017
« Reply #160 on: August 03, 2017, 09:03:54 am »
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I mean - imagine this in a realistic medieval world where they see a dragon for the first time. I imagine they'd bring out a ballista straight away.

Offline Tristan_of_Erzoth

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Re: GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 7 - SPOILERS INSIDE - 7/16/2017
« Reply #161 on: August 03, 2017, 10:46:38 am »
+1

Video of Drogon getting BTFO by handheld javelins. A ballista would fire much faster and much stronger than someone can throw it via their hand. Skip to around 7mins in
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Offline njames89

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Re: GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 7 - SPOILERS INSIDE - 7/16/2017
« Reply #162 on: August 03, 2017, 01:04:30 pm »
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lol Euron in the last episode was great.

"A finger in the bum?"

That actor is knocking it out of the park

I mean - imagine this in a realistic medieval world where they see a dragon for the first time. I imagine they'd bring out a ballista straight away.

I agree here however, I think the situation presently in Westeros is that there is limited siege technology. Cersei is just having Qyburn (however his name is spelled) make them. The only 3 trebuchets spoken about that we know exist are the three whores in kings landing built for the defense in the battle of the blackwater that I recall.

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Re: GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 7 - SPOILERS INSIDE - 7/16/2017
« Reply #163 on: August 03, 2017, 03:35:30 pm »
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Season is picking up a little bit at least, still a lot of parts have me thinking. Why did Sansa tell them to put leather on the plate? Does/did anyone actually do this? I mean you have a very thick padding underneath it that should provide more than enough warmth in winter, what the hell is a bit of leather going to do on it? Feels like it would be more of a hindrance.

Also how fast did Jaime take that city? Was it completely cleared of troops, not even some garrison? because it feels like a siege should last more than half a day.

It was also funny to see the fleet get completely fucked and the lesbians down low didnt notice anything untill a while after all the fighting seem to have started.


I also had an issue with Khaleesi and Cersei looking constipated in many of their scenes when they are on the thrones talking down to someone, but it was a good chuckle. Oh yeah i think even Arya had the same issue.
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Offline Jona

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Re: GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 7 - SPOILERS INSIDE - 7/16/2017
« Reply #164 on: August 03, 2017, 04:15:44 pm »
+1
You mean how do you know. I know because I know the lore.

Care to provide a screencap of a ballista shown in the show prior to this recent episode, loremaster?

I agree here however, I think the situation presently in Westeros is that there is limited siege technology. Cersei is just having Qyburn (however his name is spelled) make them. The only 3 trebuchets spoken about that we know exist are the three whores in kings landing built for the defense in the battle of the blackwater that I recall.

Exactly my point. At least in the show, we've been presented with almost no siege engines apart from ladders and a battering ram (I think they used one... maybe not?), if those even count. While in the books they might have ballistae, catapults and trebuchets everywhere, that isn't necessarily the case in the fanfic show.
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