LIVE YOUR MYTH IN FRANCE.

[Paul]

Wait, I thought you are both full-time forum warriors.

[Oberyn]

I live a pretty comfortable life. I know this is beyond your comprehension, but my angst isn't aimed at my own life, but at where I'm seeing my country and people headed. I prefer realistic doom and gloom to patently retarded wishful thinking masquerading as optimism. Given history, I think I've got precedent on my side.  Sorry that your amazingly condescending strawman isn't accurate.
Keep thinking it's just limited to poor white idiots trying to externalize their failures and old people who clearly aren't as evolved and moraly upstanding as the current younger generation (lol), or that the current generation will not change it's politics with time. I used to be pretty leftist, and life experiences and education changed my mind completely.

[Kafein]

But Oberyn, how comes you claim to live a pretty comfortable life when all around you some of your countrymen live in poverty? Shouldn't you share your good fortune and make sure none of your fellow native Frenchmen suffer at the hands of foreigners and international finance? If you truly reject individualism, then you should seek to act for the collectivity.

[Oberyn]

Making more money than a university student isn't exactly a great achievement, so I felt perfectly safe throwing that in your face. I'm comfortably middle class, apparently this means any sort of collective identity felt on my part for other french people is nothing more than superficial hypocrisy. I'm liberal (in the european senseà and completely in favour of trade, with protections to protect sensitive national industries, which are present in literally every major economy in the world for obvious reasons. There's a giant gap between a collective identity and all out ethnic communism, which is basically national socialism. I know that's your immediate go to for anything that has even a hint of nationalist flavour, the ultimate slippery slide to fascism.

As for the reform of Islam being an obligation of the West and a fait accompli, I'll tell you same thing I tell you every time, it's a fucking pipe dream laced with arrogance and blind optimism.

[Kafein]

Making more money than a university student isn't exactly a great achievement, so I felt perfectly safe throwing that in your face. I'm comfortably middle class, apparently this means any sort of collective identity felt on my part for other french people is nothing more than superficial hypocrisy.

Then what does this collective identity even mean?

I'm liberal (in the european senseà and completely in favour of trade, with protections to protect sensitive national industries, which are present in literally every major economy in the world for obvious reasons.
There's a giant gap between a collective identity and all out ethnic communism, which is basically national socialism. I know that's your immediate go to for anything that has even a hint of nationalist flavour, the ultimate slippery slide to fascism.

Hardly, I just see that your actual views are so edulcorated they share almost nothing with what you write in your fits of rage.
 

As for the reform of Islam being an obligation of the West and a fait accompli, I'll tell you same thing I tell you every time, it's a fucking pipe dream laced with arrogance and blind optimism.

Your reading comprehension skills need to improve.

[Xant]

[Butan]

Your reading comprehension skills need to improve.

Xant: I'm so proud of you boy 

[Leshma]

I just want to say goodbye in case this is the last time more than two people are having discussion on this forum. It was a pleasure, even more than playing Warband: Grind Edition.

[Admerius]

Regarding that reforming islam part:

http://10news.dk/?p=526

My reaction:

(click to show/hide)

I mean that facepalm kind when you: "No you didn't... it can't be true... holy shit, is it that simple!?"

[Turkhammer]

The West has no obligation to reform Islam. But if you dont see the benefit of doing so then I hope you keep enjoying your terror attacks lol. Arrogance and blind optimism is thinking attacks will stop any other way.

Ergo, you conclude that Islam is tied to continuing terror attacks.

Exactly how do you propose that the West reforms Islam?  And how will "reforming" Islam by the West (however that would happen) stop ISIS recruits returning to Europe to conduct attacks?

[Butan]

The West has no obligation to reform Islam. But if you dont see the benefit of doing so then I hope you keep enjoying your terror attacks lol. Arrogance and blind optimism is thinking attacks will stop any other way.

The reform will have to come from within Islam.
The only thing that the West can do to effectively stop terror attacks is to kill those behind them, cut the head of the snake and all that.

[Butan]

- Need to find and put down the ones 'behind' attacks that have already happened. Nothing we didn't already know, the hard part is finding them.
- Finding and ending people behind attacks that haven't happened yet will be a harder task, although that's one of the job of your security services.
- The 'motive' is a religious and cultural one. Changes to the religion or culture around it stand to prevent far more random attacks than these other controls. Already discussed how this may work, but these things take time.

I'm not talking about killing the sheeps that are going to do suicide attacks, I'm talking about the masterminds that plan and order those attacks...
Who cares about the political or cultural motives of those guys? To go that deep into the hole of murder, whatever fuels it, means you get to be expunged from humanity at all cost.

[Kafein]

Heskey, what do you think about religious profiling from local police? In that I mean to use religion (and some religions specifically) as an indicator of potential crimes.

[Admerius]

@Kafein

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya

It is not that simple, if this practice(Taqiya) is known and practiced by the suspect, then using a direct religious test(aka. Are you muslim? Y/N) will not be that productive.

1. It is much easier and productive(sadly it's morally/civil rights despicable) to use the majority phenotype of the practitioners of Islamic doctrine(aka. Super-saharan africa, Middle eastern and Central/southern Asian. <- better this than nothing IMO, but we all know that temporary(until better solution) becomes "temporay"(let it be if it makes a voting block prefers me over my competition)

2. Another solution is to vet the persons that are emulating Muhammed's violent period(was it the meccan period?), this is most likely much more resource intense and would need the moderate Muslims(not only the liberal Muslims) to aid us. <- Best solution, but it is very unlikely to be effective in the short term(100+ terror attacks acts of war)

(click to show/hide)

Oversimplified vocabulary used:
Jihadis=We love death more than the infidel loves life
Islamist=House of Islam shall vanquish the House of War, by political or Violent means if more effective.
Conservative Muslims=Shariah should be implemented, everything else is Haram
Moderate Muslims=Leave me alone to practice my faith, It is just as valid as Secularism
Liberal Muslims=We need to secularize Islam, and let people practice their religion in a way that doesn't infringe on other persons rights

[Grytviken]

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