Leave or stay in the EU?

[Butan]

You speak like if the other individual countries doesnt have red tape to deal with when looking for deals, and also like if individual countries within the EU cant do any trade by themselves. There's been tons of deals from within the EU to the rest of the world...

And the old one on regions being unequal then impossible to unite lacks arguments. There is tons of imbalances within one country, but it doesnt secede for this unique reason. This apply for all the westernized countries in western, southern, eastern europe.
Overall, economically there is as much reason to be in than out; the cultural and laws aspects is where it can not stick.

[Grytviken]

You speak like if the other individual countries doesnt have red tape to deal with when looking for deals, and also like if individual countries within the EU cant do any trade by themselves. There's been tons of deals from within the EU to the rest of the world...

And the old one on regions being unequal then impossible to unite lacks arguments. There is tons of imbalances within one country, but it doesnt secede for this unique reason.

They have a committee of non-elected overpaid gurus create the red tape for them, all trade is regulated and limited through EU legislation which is a non-democratic process. At least you can hold your own nationals accountable, there is no way to hold EU legislators accountable because they are appointed not elected.

 No other free tariff area requires free movement. No sane nation would allow a foreign international committee of politicians who have no experience in trade or business legislate, regulate and restrict trade with red tape for them unless they were forced or tricked to do so. These subsidies are a minor rebate on how bad they are being screwed over by being robbed of their brightest and most qualified workers paying taxes to another nation to their economic benefit, while all the good jobs continue to stay out of their nation.

[Turkhammer]

That's a bit of a crass assumption isn't it? My posts aren't like that at all, at most they show an ostensibly discerning forecast. I'm just saying what is actually happening, if you can provide any evidence to tell me that i'm wrong please do so- but please read all of my posts on this matter first, i'm fully aware we are in economic uncertainty.

The following quote from you is based on what basis other than breathless speculation?:

"A ~10% national pay-cut with an acute increase in taxes for the near foreseeable future. Well at least Britain has 1/2 of it's 'national pride' back."

[Yeldur]

that guy is supposed to be funny? O.o

Seems BoJo dropped out of the race for tory leader. Id bet my house on May right now but i would like Gove to be PM

I seriously hope nobody other than you wants Gove to be PM or we're fucked.

[Thomek]

Grytviken you are so misinformed it's becoming ridiculous.

Half the point of the EU is to remove "Red Tape"

Can you even imagine the chaos if 28 countries would hustle deals unilaterally with each other? The horror it is for trade and efficiency? The possibilities for corrupt politicians to flourish? Just imagine the united states with all the states putting tarrifs and embargos on each other..

The only answer for such a small, but fragmented region as Europe to work well within itself, is a strong central authority. Yes it is slow, but at least the member states eventually agree on 1 thing at the time. It's also not undemocratic, all decisions are made in each states government, their diplomats in Brussels representing their respective nations.

[SixThumbs]

Except you have a common monetary policy without a common fiscal policy with speculation on a countries interest rates instead of currency with no ability to control or stabilize things for themselves.

[Oberyn]

The following quote from you is based on what basis other than breathless speculation?:

"A ~10% national pay-cut with an acute increase in taxes for the near foreseeable future. Well at least Britain has 1/2 of it's 'national pride' back."

Wishful thinking. At this point a lot of people seem to want an economic collapse, so that the retarded propaganda they've been pumped with makes sense. Otherwise they might be forced to realize it was a pile of moronic lies and that they're easily manipulated useful idiots.

[tizzango]

What happened to you mate, you used to be a top cunt, calling my son a retard because he couldn't eat yoghurt, now you seem like an automated political response bot, what the fuck did they do to you in education? I want the old tizzango back.

Hahahhaha! I'm sure your son is still a retard who can't eat yoghurt surely you don't need me for that.. How's he getting on anyway?

Leesin, i'm sure when bonerlord or oKaM come out and Fallen is back on the scene- I will once more call your son retarded, but for now it is time to engage politically my son, my danone warrior, my muller corner brother.

[tizzango]

The following quote from you is based on what basis other than breathless speculation?:

Just the news mate, just the news and quotes from the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Just those two sources mate.

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-06-28/george-osborne-we-will-absolutely-have-to-cut-spending-and-raise-taxes/

I'll pose you a question, cause it's better to work it out on your own: Why would someones currency being worth less mean that they effectively have less money?

However, instead of being very condescending; i'll tell you that the worth of the pound has dropped and you should be able to work out why people are effectively receiving a pay cut.

[Grytviken]

Grytviken you are so misinformed it's becoming ridiculous.

Half the point of the EU is to remove "Red Tape"

Can you even imagine the chaos if 28 countries would hustle deals unilaterally with each other? The horror it is for trade and efficiency? The possibilities for corrupt politicians to flourish? Just imagine the united states with all the states putting tarrifs and embargos on each other..

The only answer for such a small, but fragmented region as Europe to work well within itself, is a strong central authority. Yes it is slow, but at least the member states eventually agree on 1 thing at the time. It's also not undemocratic, all decisions are made in each states government, their diplomats in Brussels representing their respective nations.

Trade has existed for 1000's of years before the EU and continues to exist today without tariffs and embargo's outside of the EU. EU commissioners are a super-national appointed cabinet, not a democratically elected body, they also hold the majority of legislative and executive power in the EU, the same goes for the President of the EU who is also appointed not elected. The elected EU MP's hold very little power.

Also : http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36669886

[Lt_Anders]

However, instead of being very condescending; i'll tell you that the worth of the pound has dropped and you should be able to work out why people are effectively receiving a pay cut.

A Weakened monetary currency is great for a country getting ready to hustle into economic expansion. This creates an massive increase in likely exports while greatly decreasing imports(This is very very bad for Germany which relies heavily on it's exports). This means that local buisness within the coutry will be able to profit more from a free, global market.

From some basic economics handbooks on depreciation:

Tends to increase rate of economic growth and reduce unemployment.
Tends to benefit exporters, but makes imports more expensive.
Tends to cause inflation. This is because:

    imports more expensive
    higher domestic demand
    firms have less incentive to cut costs

Tends to improve the current account deficit

In all honesty, England is way better off losing it's pound exchange rate long term. Course non of you "remain" people care to look at economics because it won't fit the narrative you wish.

[Leshma]

Put that economics handbook in todays perspective, will ya? We live in a globalized world where majority of things we buy is produced in one country (China). Because how capitalism works and because of complexity of processes used in pretty much every industry today, it is not possible to start producing goods in our native countries. We don't have the tech, we don't have enough personnel, we don't have resources and even if we do, we aren't keen on extracting them on our soil. Lastly, we want to be paid well for our job and them Chinese still do it for less money. Actually people in Serbia can compete with them when it comes to salaries, but we don't have anything else to offer.

Due to strained relationship between government of your country and China you're actively seeking someone to replace them. Your best bet is India, but they are too far from being able to compete with Chinese on many fronts. Maybe in few decades, but short and medium term we all are stuck with Chinese being our only manufacturer.

What do you suggest British to produce, now they are free? Which goods? You're advocating same communists did for decades, rely on our own food, our own industry, buy home made products say no to imported goods. Well, it just doesn't work that well.

[Lt_Anders]

Put that economics handbook in todays perspective, will ya? We live in a globalized world where majority of things we buy is produced in one country (China). Because how capitalism works and because of complexity of processes used in pretty much every industry today, it is not possible to start producing goods in our native countries. We don't have the tech, we don't have enough personnel, we don't have resources and even if we do, we aren't keen on extracting them on our soil. Lastly, we want to be paid well for our job and them Chinese still do it for less money. Actually people in Serbia can compete with them when it comes to salaries, but we don't have anything else to offer.

Due to strained relationship between government of your country and China you're actively seeking someone to replace them. Your best bet is India, but they are too far from being able to compete with Chinese on many fronts. Maybe in few decades, but short and medium term we all are stuck with Chinese being our only manufacturer.

What do you suggest British to produce, now they are free? Which goods? You're advocating same communists did for decades, rely on our own food, our own industry, buy home made products say no to imported goods. Well, it just doesn't work that well.

You are totally incorrect. In fact, even if "everything" is made in China(which it isn't, but that's not suiting your narrative), China has to compete with local markets even in a "Global" world. If the local markets do not want (or cannot afford, which is also the case) the "cheap" Chinese goods, then China looses out. In fact, it's only cheap if they produce large quantities of it. China cannot make specialty (small scale) cheaper than elsewhere.

Also, China isn't the only "cheap" place. There's many countries that can do that (India, for example), that even amongst them, there is competition. China doesn't produce many "finished" products,either, merely the parts that go into them. Course, this doesn't fit your narrative, so you'll find some way to discredit it anyways.

[tizzango]

You are totally incorrect. In fact, even if "everything" is made in China(which it isn't, but that's not suiting your narrative), China has to compete with local markets even in a "Global" world. If the local markets do not want (or cannot afford, which is also the case) the "cheap" Chinese goods, then China looses out. In fact, it's only cheap if they produce large quantities of it. China cannot make specialty (small scale) cheaper than elsewhere.

Also, China isn't the only "cheap" place. There's many countries that can do that (India, for example), that even amongst them, there is competition. China doesn't produce many "finished" products,either, merely the parts that go into them. Course, this doesn't fit your narrative, so you'll find some way to discredit it anyways.

Shut up bitch, you're nuttin but a gay fish. You too Oberyn, if you're reading which I know you are.


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Nerds. I'm out.


 

[Lt_Anders]

Shut up bitch, you're nuttin but a gay fish. You too Oberyn, if you're reading which I know you are.


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Nerds. I'm out.

Gets shown economics 101. leaves when it doesn't suit narrative.