Author Topic: Leave or stay in the EU?  (Read 95960 times)

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Offline Kafein

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #660 on: June 24, 2016, 06:20:45 pm »
0
What does "destiny" even mean?

Obviously small states have to work with other states, their policies might even be strongly influenced by those they work with, but it's still a far cry from having laws dictated to them by someone else, or told how many immigrants they have to take or how much money to pay to Greece.

"a far cry from having laws dictated to them by someone else"

It seems you fundamentally don't understand what I'm talking about. Laws are always dictated by someone else. Today 48% of British citizen had the other 52% impose something that will have a lasting impact on their lives against their will. How is that not a law dictated to them by someone else? Unless you think about "British" as a kind of Borg monolithic entity.

Eh "Belgian" upset and angry at national sovereignty, what a surprise. Maybe that little spiel is accurate for your "country", but you'd have to be fucking retarded to compare the UK and Finland in the same sentence in any way. Think real, real hard, and maybe you could come up with some of the important ways in which they differ and how this might affect their economies in relation to staying/leaving the Euro. I understand why you'd want to put your "country"'s situation as representative of the varying nations now part of the EU, though. There really isn't anything to get back to in your case.

Eh, French with delusions of grandeur, what a surprise as well.

I'm sure both countries have an equally brilliant plan for unilaterally dealing with Russia, climate change, globalization and tax evasion. You know just as well as I do that each is going to act in their own interests and fuck everybody else. The difference is that I don't want that, because it means worse off for everybody. Are you that blind? Do you not realize that for example Switzerland has been gleefully robbing France and many other countries of tax revenues since WW2 ?

Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #661 on: June 24, 2016, 06:28:50 pm »
+5
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I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline Butan

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #662 on: June 24, 2016, 06:30:02 pm »
+1
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-06-24/leave-voter-disappointed-and-wishes-to-vote-remain/

FUCKING IDIOTS

Lets do a poll on "remain/leave" and if the results are not similar one day after the referendum, we do a second referendum with the lessons of the first at hands!  :P

Offline darmaster

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #663 on: June 24, 2016, 06:38:46 pm »
-1
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Offline tizzango

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #664 on: June 24, 2016, 06:39:31 pm »
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Lets do a poll on "remain/leave" and if the results are not similar one day after the referendum, we do a second referendum with the lessons of the first at hands!  :P

I literally just had this discussion with my flatmate. Their should be a mock poll, and then a real poll a week later.

I'm seeing similar anecdotes all over my social media network. There are a lot of people who treated it like a protest vote against the government and genuinely thought it wouldn't actually happen.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #665 on: June 24, 2016, 06:43:21 pm »
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For a researcher you have really strange understanding of statistics. A missing column in that table that would be usefull is the total number of votes per age bracket, if the point was to insinuate old reactionary racist cunts are the main reason Brexit passed, and all you need is to wait for these old white shitlords to die before true utopia that the "educated" young believe in can commence. But I suppose it was left out for precisely those reasons.
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Offline tizzango

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #666 on: June 24, 2016, 06:53:41 pm »
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For a researcher you have really strange understanding of statistics. A missing column in that table that would be usefull is the total number of votes per age bracket, if the point was to insinuate old reactionary racist cunts are the main reason Brexit passed, and all you need is to wait for these old white shitlords to die before true utopia that the "educated" young believe in can commence. But I suppose it was left out for precisely those reasons.

By no means are these a relative indicator of the number of votes per demographic, you're right to critique an image with vague percentages. But I believe it paints a political picture.

I'm not implying anyone's an 'old racist cunt', i'm not saying that young 'educated' people are the prophets that will carry us into a golden age of prosperity either. I'm just showing something that carries it's own implications. You can make a lot of different arguments explaining the diversity in opinion with regards to age, but again, i'm merely highlighting the issue. Take from it what you like.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #667 on: June 24, 2016, 06:59:21 pm »
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Anyone have link to  those demographics bubbles. I've seen it on r/europe in secession thread but can't dig through it now, there's like 10k posts in there by now...

Shows everything, from age of voters to education. Very informative and to the point.

Offline Angantyr

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #668 on: June 24, 2016, 07:01:32 pm »
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I know we live in an age where the wisdom of age is generally ignored in public life but let us not pretend that a lot of people do not actually grow wiser exponentially with experience. Many of you who are teenagers or in your early to mid-20s right now will most likely look back at your opinions in 10-20 years and grimace, as I probably will myself on a lot of issues throughout my life. Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

Some also get more set in their ways but I think that is adequately balanced with the youthful arrogance in the opposite end of the age spectrum.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #669 on: June 24, 2016, 07:15:33 pm »
+1
By no means are these a relative indicator of the number of votes per demographic, you're right to critique an image with vague percentages. But I believe it paints a political picture.

I'm not implying anyone's an 'old racist cunt', i'm not saying that young 'educated' people are the prophets that will carry us into a golden age of prosperity either. I'm just showing something that carries it's own implications. You can make a lot of different arguments explaining the diversity in opinion with regards to age, but again, i'm merely highlighting the issue. Take from it what you like.

Taking it along with the barrage of butthurt whining that the sky is falling from regressive media and that those responsable are the dying old white racists that everyone else can't wait to dissapear, because the young and "minorities" are obviously all tolerant humanist globalists, uniformly, it's not very hard to see what the "implications" of the graph are. It's literally spelled out. I'm sure you had no consciousness of this graph being blatantly misleading when you posted it though.
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Offline Xant

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #670 on: June 24, 2016, 07:16:00 pm »
+2
"a far cry from having laws dictated to them by someone else"

It seems you fundamentally don't understand what I'm talking about. Laws are always dictated by someone else. Today 48% of British citizen had the other 52% impose something that will have a lasting impact on their lives against their will. How is that not a law dictated to them by someone else? Unless you think about "British" as a kind of Borg monolithic entity.
Ah, you're crusading for the whole "citizens of Earth" thing.

It's not that difficult a concept for non-crusaders, though. There's a vast difference between having your elected politicians, from your culture, whom you have more control over with people from your culture (i.e., by voting), make the laws, and some massive bureaucracy formed of people you have no connection with and different values with make them for you. I know that goes against the whole kumbayaah-let's-all-of-us-hug-all-cultures-are-equal thing, but that's not how most people think.

The logic is simple. Do you want to make your own decisions? What if you can't, who would you rather have make them for you? Your neighbor or your parents? What if your parents can't, your neighbor or some guy living in the countryside? What if your neighbor can't? The guy living in the countryside, or someone from another country close by? What if the country dude can't? The someone from a country close by, or a dirt farmer from Afghanistan?

The closer the decision making process is, the better. The vast majority of the world's population agrees with this sentiment.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 07:46:50 pm by Xant »
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #671 on: June 24, 2016, 07:17:15 pm »
+1
'What is the EU' is the second top UK search result on Google since the result was announced.

That is truly goddamn appalling.

Offline Grytviken

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #672 on: June 24, 2016, 07:17:58 pm »
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Problem with EU falling apart is that NATO will significantly weaken and maybe even fall apart itself. Finland would be crazy to leave EU, considering how close they are to Russia...

While EU is weakening, Putin is tightening the grip on his own Union. But you're too busy to notice that.

I don't think Putin is what the EU should worry about. Not to sound like a cynic but the last refugee crisis was chaotic, what's going to happen when ISIS capitulates this summer and suddenly there are 12+ million more refugees heading your way, all brainwashed ex-ISIS citizenry that pose a security threat. Is it really smart to have the ultra-liberal naive dumbos in the EU dictating your nation's border and refugee quotas then?

Offline Falka

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #673 on: June 24, 2016, 07:18:41 pm »
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Lol Gibraltar, my TOWN has nearly triple the population of Gibraltar, fuck them, not our problem, we weren't voting for their sake. I am really am not sure what is going to happen in the shit storm to follow, I am not sure if I am going to like much or any of it, but what I do know is that at least we will get rid of the Scots now, fuck them.

Fuck EU, fuck Gibraltar, fuck Scots, fuck NI...

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Offline Butan

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #674 on: June 24, 2016, 07:19:06 pm »
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I also find the "old = stupid and disconnected to real life" a bit counter-intuitive.

Not to add that millions of younglings voted to leave, its not like 25% = none?


Fuck EU, fuck Gibraltar, fuck Scots, fuck NI...

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Self-destruction seems to claws the pro-remain more than the pro-exit. Look at all the people practically begging for every parts of UK to leave now that they are out of the EU?