Leave or stay in the EU?

[Leshma]

Oberyn, do you listen to Maître Gims? Muslim, black, immigrant...

[Molly]

most eurosceptics are thinking of the bigger picture and just use the immigration as a blunt object with which to batter europhiles over the head with. You may want a United States of Europe but that is far from the wishes of everyone, I hope never to see the UK cede all power to a central European government in my lifetime. All of the horror stories are just that stories.

Oh no we have a housing crises and the young people cannot afford to buy a house in most of the country, Then we are told if we leave the EU house prices will fall AND it will be harder to get a mortgage (how that works i have no idea). The problem with these debates is that there is no actual debate, Each side is just telling you how bad your life will be if you dont vote for them, The remain campaign has certainly not even tried to show how the EU is a positive thing all it has done is said how we will collapse without being in a continental union as if no other country on earth does it.

I have the same impression from the outside.
I watched a couple of those TV/internet spots from both sides and they all do the same 'doom preaching'.

As a German, I am stuck with the EU whether I like it or not. Same with the Euro as currency.
All I want is basically the same treatment for all participants. And not just the UK, there is Scandinavia...
If you wanna benefit from the EU - and there are benefits to it, that much is unquestionable at this point - then you have to swallow the bad stuff too.
That is for example one of the main reasons why I would like to see the UK leave and the benefits being suspended, be it just temporarily. I am annoyed by news reporting that the UK got once again an exception from the EU. Either you're in or you're out - no more middle ground funny extra contract.
Decide.

But that is mostly based on 'feelz' - the whole interconnects between the UK and the EU in our globalized (globalised?) world are probably way to complicated for anyone to see through and understand, even for the most prominent experts. Nobody can foresee the future and how the stock-markets will react, how companies will react and so on. Even those so rational elements fall prey to diffuse fears and 'feelz'.

So, here I am being as wise as before. Emotionally I wanna see the UK leave and fail miserably... Sowwy :3

[Thomek]

Thats alot of assuming. Where are your facts, before you call it "boring" truth?
"Calm down and think bigger perspective" is that what you will tell your friends and family, when they get hit by one of the "organized rapefugee jihad squads" like in cologne?

No, it's what I write in a forum post in the crpg forums, to try and expand the conversation a bit. You know, what the EU is essentially about, why it is important, what possibilities it creates etc.

The fact is that its already changing. It has happened all over Europe, where anti-immigration and populist parties are influencing the agenda, elected or not.

[Angantyr]

is that what you will tell your friends and family, when they get hit by one of the "organized rapefugee jihad squads" like in cologne?

As a quick aside, I heard an interesting comment from Scott Reitz (his bio http://scottreitz.com/), among other things a 30 year veteran of the LAPD and 10 years in SWAT; 'There are no liberal rape victims'.

Waking Up with Sam Harris - Behind the Gun: A Conversation with Scott Reitz

(Where has the Youtube embedder gone?)

[Rhekimos]

As a quick aside, I heard an interesting comment recently from Scott Reitz (his bio http://scottreitz.com/), among other things a 30 year veteran of the LAPD and 10 years in SWAT; 'There are no liberal rape victims'.

Wut?

(Where has the Youtube embedder gone?)

Typing [youtube][/youtube] works as per normal.

[Angantyr]

As in people are less liberal after being molested.

Thanks, the Youtube embed icon is gone from my board interface.

[Rhekimos]

Hmm.

[Oberyn]

It's kind of hard to pretend the consequences of mass immigration are minor, "a matter of time" and not a threat until it actually becomes one personally and to the people you care about. Of course none of the globalist bundle of stickss care about their people because they have been brainwashed into thinking the rest of humanity are as infatuated with the same delusion they are, and think they will be embraced with open arms if they renounce all collective identity beyond "human", so it has to personally intrude into their lives in one way or another before they even recognize it exists.

I sound like a broken record because none of these idiots have ever presented any arguements to the contrary except wishful thinking, vague projections of a utopian future that exists only in their diseased imaginations. They will whine about how our selfishness makes us responsable for the deaths of poor, opressed foreigners who just want a better life for themselves and their children if we refuse to accept millions of them, but absolutely refuse to take any responsability for their inevitable victims. All the globalist pro-mass immigration cunts are indirectly responsable for every rape victim, every woman and man violently assaulted by worthless parasitical scum, every person murdered by terrorist fanatics. But these are acceptable deaths and suffering, mere growing pains, the dross that must be cast aside in order to fulfill their demented dream.

[Tibes]

Erdogan and the rest of his government have taken upon themselves to heavly loudmouth pretty much the whole Europe. Looks like Europes got another enemy now and quite many problems with it. Boy have things gotten to such massive shit in less than 5 years.

Mybe being attacked by a turd like Erdogan is a good thing. When this whole ordeal is over mybe Europe gets atleast some of its teeth back and is finally capable of making firm decisions in politics with non-member states. Because EU seems totally capable of blackmailing its own members without any kind of shame, because its a right thing to do, but completely craps its pants and falls apart whenever it should apply pressure to non-EU states.

[Osiris]

So if we leave the EU we make Isis and Putin happy (according to the Prime Minister) That along with war in Europe and NATO being weak if we leave probably means I won't be listening to much that comes out of Cameron's mouth 


So much for reasoned debates. Isis to the left of me einstein to the right etc etc song lyrics.

[Oberyn]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36317006

"German court rules against comic Boehmermann over Erdogan poem"

GERMANY YES!

[Rhekimos]

Not surprising since it was the law. Germany and Denmark also said they were going to remove the insulting-foreign-heads-of-state laws.

So if we leave the EU we make Isis and Putin happy (according to the Prime Minister) That along with war in Europe and NATO being weak if we leave probably means I won't be listening to much that comes out of Cameron's mouth 

What Cameron said was backed by five former secretaries general of NATO though.

[Angantyr]

Douglas Murray's 'The President Erdogan's offensive poetry competition', http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/introducing-the-president-erdogan-offensive-poetry-competition/

His own attempt:

    Recep Erdogan is the Turk’ll

    Never tire of rim-jobs from his circle

    Yet his chief-est delight

    (Now Khilafa’s in sight)

    Are the felchings* he gets from Frau Merkel


*felchings - semen deposited inside an anus and then sucked back out.

[Overdriven]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36317006

"German court rules against comic Boehmermann over Erdogan poem"

GERMANY YES!

Just got to that article. What a retarded law.

'The Turkish president had filed a criminal complaint against the satirist in a case that prompted a debate in Germany over freedom of speech.

Mr Boehmermann, considered Germany's most incisive satirist, had read the obscene poem on his Neo Magazin Royale programme on 31 March, making clear that it included material that broke German laws on free speech. Section 103 of the criminal code bans insulting representatives or organs belonging to foreign states.'

So no German is allowed to insult a foreign statesman?

[Oberyn]

Not if he's from a protected class, in this case a muslim turk. Do you honestly think anyone would have taken this law seriously if, say, Bush had attempted to invoke it? German media certainly didn't seem worried about it back then, or any time they need to slander and insult another european leader into doing their bidding, the hypocritical bundle of stickss.