Leave or stay in the EU?

[Rhekimos]

Falka, try not to confuse Polish right-wingers with what is happening in the west, from what I can see from your country's political scene it's far more benign here, at a completely different stage and not yet taken to hysterical extremes. Please remember that in many of these states that now have a reawakening national identity has been near non-existent. I see it as a balancing act.

What's a good amount of national identity for everyone to boast though? Right before a world war? There was certainly a balance back then, in the sense of whole nations walking a tightrope over a chasm.

Is it time for round three already?

[Leshma]

Good on Austria.


Yeah, here in Poland right wing party is ruling already. They're awesome, truly awesome 

Yesterday we had elections as well. Almost half of votes went to already ruling right wing, populist band of thieves. As expected, because others are wannabe thieves

There is something inherently wrong with voting system and parliamentary system in general. I did vote but never had belief like I'm changing anything. In the end, I really didn't.

[Falka]

it's far more benign here, at a completely different stage and not yet taken to hysterical extremes.

So we shouldn't worry until it's taken to hysterical extremes (whatever it means)? Don't you think it could be too late then? Nazis can not be trusted.

There is something inherently wrong with voting system and parliamentary system in general.

I think there's something wrong with humanity. Like most of us, people, are fucked up in the head.

[Xant]

Is it time for round three already?

We can only hope. This peace craze has been going on for far too long.

[Butan]

We can only hope. This peace craze has been going on for far too long.

Hit me up when you start your finnish khanate.

[Kafein]

has been near non-existent.

hello

[Oberyn]

What's a good amount of national identity for everyone to boast though? Right before a world war? There was certainly a balance back then, in the sense of whole nations walking a tightrope over a chasm.

Is it time for round three already?

Yes yes, of course, only western nationalism is dangerous. Just ignore the fact that the entire rest of the planet has had nationalism and variety of other tribalistic identities forever too, and will continue to have them. We must not be nationalistic, otherwise it's WW3 incoming. As soon as a western nation shows the slightest inkling towards collective identity we might as well start up the gas chambers again.

[Molly]

Yes yes, of course, only western nationalism is dangerous. Just ignore the fact that the entire rest of the planet has had nationalism and variety of other tribalistic identities forever too, and will continue to have them. We must not be nationalistic, otherwise it's WW3 incoming. As soon as a western nation shows the slightest inkling towards collective identity we might as well start up the gas chambers again.

Just ignore that most of that rest of the world is kinda a big ass shithole.
Correlation or causation?

[Oberyn]

Yeah, it's the lack of nationalism that made the industrial and information age happen. Just imagine if South Korea and Japan were just like us ideologically, their HDI would be off the charts! Because of course their current HDI has nothing to do with functional economies and political systems, it's all about how tolerant you are of "diversity". A+ logic as usual.

[Thomek]

Come on, you have to give some credit to diversity and openness, specially culturally. There's a reason why US/Western films, music, art is completely dominating the whole world. Take a look at the pop charts for instance.

It's not because of this:

As world leaders, economically, culturally, militarily, I do think it's our moral responsibility to make the world a better place. How you go about achieving that can of course be discussed. I'm not a fan of bombs, as they do little damage to destructive ideologies and religions. If anything just strengthens them locally and globally.

I also happen to believe taking in too many people, in some kind of misguided idea of doing good is very bad. Yes, we might be saving lives, but we also drain some of the best and strongest people from parts of the world that really need them. I think we can take some, but it's a question of numbers and control, and how we welcome them. Too often they are stashed in ghettos without any real chance of work and living respectable lives. This is just futile. IMO we should take far fewer, but also work much harder for those who come, to have a real chance of being integrated. Supplying WORK is the keyword here.

[Butan]

Yes yes, of course, only western nationalism is dangerous. Just ignore the fact that the entire rest of the planet has had nationalism and variety of other tribalistic identities forever too, and will continue to have them. We must not be nationalistic, otherwise it's WW3 incoming. As soon as a western nation shows the slightest inkling towards collective identity we might as well start up the gas chambers again.

Your analogy explains why its bad itself though. If you justify the re-awakening of various european nationalism by the nationalism agression of other groups, there could be no end to it. You must certainly see that humanism > nationalism?

Nationalism is a natural reaction from external agression, and a good ideological obstacle to incompatible values; but it is also going to encourage xenophoby and could break regions apart.
Gotta watch out and not overdo it; but IMO there is no basis for a WW3 atm, there is just no justifications to re-assert age old claims upon our western neighbours. The only potential hot zones are Ukraine and Balkans. And of course middle east but our modern western armies can crush them any time of the day.

Anyway, using WW3 fear as an argument against nationalism is counter-productive and asinine, even more so from the point of view of the people welcoming nationalism tendencies.

[Umbra]

Readin comprehension /facepalm

[Overdriven]

Still on the fence on this one. So little 'real' information from either side. It's all just scare mongering either way.

I'll probably end up making a split second decision right before voting.

[Overdriven]

Just like the Scotland vote,

The 'leave' party is playing nearly entirely on trying to get people to vote with their hearts not their heads like with Scotland, chasing some ridiculous notion of former glory.

The 'stay' party is sprouting so much bullshit about the negative impact this will have on the average person's life that it's hard to see what the genuine fallout would be (if any) for the average person.

Pretty much identical to the Scotland vote.

I ultimately think I'll vote leave purely based on the fact that we shouldn't be scared of change and why not give it a go.

There are great parts about the EU but there's also so much shit it brings. I honestly don't think we can do much worse outside of it.

Although I'm certain it'll be inevitable that their will be negative short term economic consequences. But there may be light on the other side who knows.

Regardless it all dates back to the absolute retarded decision to turn our backs on the commonwealth in favour of the EU market. If we hadn't done that we'd be in an amazing position right now with free access to some of the fastest growing markets in the world. But nope, short sighted policies win as always.

[Murmillus_Prime]

Lol. Wealth of evidence and information? Really now?

You can basically staple everything as evidence these days and jump to simple conclusions based on every action, commited by every country, government and person of power. And the informationpile of everybodies simple conclusions from which you will also do simple conclusions of your own is so large that one cant even detect garbage in it anymore. You cant even prevent yourself from spreading garbage, because of that. Thats why you are here. Spreading garbage. Because not you, nor anyone else can see it anymore.

And how does having autism prevent me from being right? I never really understood that. You do know what autism is right?

You're accusing me of talking garbage and yet all I see you saying is, garbage, garbage, garbage, simple conclusions, simple conclusions, simple conclusions.... Talk about pot calling the kettle black. Your verbal diahorrea is out of conrol son.

It's easy to call my opinions garbage, but apparently it's beyond your abilty to refute them.

And no having autism doesn't mean you're automatically wrong or does it prevent you from being right. I don't have a problem with autists.. Infact I probably land somewhere on the autistic spectrum myself.. I was trying to provide a sense of scale used to measure your ineptitude.