Leave or stay in the EU?

[Butan]

Lol, hasn't it historically been people trying to leave Denmark for somewhere better?

They certainly have a rich history of migration. It's all cool when you want to migrate, but the moment people want to migrate to you it's all 'noooooooooooooooooope, Denmark has never been involved in the melding of cultures'.

Denmark sure likes other people accepting Danes into their country, and honours their maritime history of doing this. But let's not accept anyone into our country. Closed borders should work bother ways, if no one's allowed in then noone should be allowed out.

Denmark has a right to decide when and where to draw the line though.
History is a BS argument either way for me.

[Angantyr]

Denmark is also consistently in the top 5 of the countries that gives the most foreign aid per capita, usually in the top 3. And that's at least for the last 16 years or so (can't be bothered looking earlier statistics up but my guess is the trend goes as far back as the 70s).

[Grytviken]

Lol, hasn't it historically been people trying to leave Denmark for somewhere better?

They certainly have a rich history of migration. It's all cool when you want to migrate, but the moment people want to migrate to you it's all 'noooooooooooooooooope, Denmark has never been involved in the melding of cultures'.

Denmark sure likes other people accepting Danes into their country, and honours their maritime history of doing this. But let's not accept anyone into our country. Closed borders should work bother ways, if no one's allowed in then noone should be allowed out.

 Denmark and the rest of the EU are doing a commendable job playing damage control while the United States and Russia continue to civilize the Middle-East and Africa. Once these countries adopt a functioning economy and modern government the mass immigration should stop, it's a small price worth paying integrating these refugees for the greater good. Some of them will also return home with a modern education benefiting their home countries. In the meantime the EU gets all the manual labor and industrial workers they need to do the jobs the over-educated smug Europeans won't to stay competitive with global economic powers like China and the US, it's a win win situation for all.

[Kafein]

History is a BS argument either way for me.

This. I think it's incredibly dumb to argue whether country X or Y is an "immigrant nation", whatever that means. Regardless of whether that assertion is true, the politics of today should be guided by reason, not habit. That last sentence sounds far more dramatic than what I mean also.

[Oberyn]

Denmark and the rest of the EU are doing a commendable job playing damage control while the United States and Russia continue to civilize the Middle-East and Africa. Once these countries adopt a functioning economy and modern government the mass immigration should stop, it's a small price worth paying integrating these refugees for the greater good. Some of them will also return home with a modern education benefiting their home countries. In the meantime the EU gets all the manual labor and industrial workers they need to do the jobs the over-educated smug Europeans won't to stay competitive with global economic powers like China and the US, it's a win win situation for all.

Of course, just like all the migrant workers that were brought in after the second world war were going to return to their countries. Whatever would we do without a resentful, violent underclass of foreigners that have massive cultural conflicts with western values. The occasional mass murder, the increasingly violent political dissidents, the absolute refusal to integrate, the disproportionate amount of crime commited, that is but a small price to pay to make sure our capitalists can pay subsistence minimum wages to as many drones as possible. And all we have to do is wait for the US and Russia to socially engineer the worst shitholes of the Middle-East and Africa into functional countries for the endless waves to stop! Hahahahahahahaha. Any time now I'm sure. Seriously though, maybe get working on civilizing Detroit before moving on to country sized areas.

[Oberyn]

Lol, hasn't it historically been people trying to leave Denmark for somewhere better?

They certainly have a rich history of migration. It's all cool when you want to migrate, but the moment people want to migrate to you it's all 'noooooooooooooooooope, Denmark has never been involved in the melding of cultures'.

Denmark sure likes other people accepting Danes into their country, and honours their maritime history of doing this. But let's not accept anyone into our country. Closed borders should work bother ways, if no one's allowed in then noone should be allowed out.

If migrants can manage to land longboats and conquer the shores of Denmark, they're welcome to stay there. That's how "migration" has worked historically. Good luck to them. Oh wait, surely you must be talking about when millions of vikings fled the horrible conditions in their countries to get paid welfare, deal drugs, be petty thugs. Don't forget make endless rap songs about how opressed they are and how this makes them angry and want to comit violence on their opressors. That is a pretty accurate analogy, sure.

[Leshma]

Denmark has a right to decide when and where to draw the line though.
History is a BS argument either way for me.

Drawing the line is one thing. Electing nazi wannabe parties is sure way to get your country fucked. Doesn't matter what they stand for, if you elect them you'll see their true colors.

Don't want immigrants to come in waves and your government isn't capable stopping it? Start a movement, demand referendum which will limit immigration. No need to elect scumbags who say they'll do it but in the end as rest of them corrupt bastards will just fill their own pockets.

[Angantyr]

Dansk Folkeparti has been in parliament since 1998 and we've yet to see them change their color. If anything they've been more moderate over the years as they've formed coalition governments.

[Armpit_Sweat]

Drawing the line is one thing. Electing nazi wannabe parties is sure way to get your country fucked. Doesn't matter what they stand for, if you elect them you'll see their true colors.

Don't want immigrants to come in waves and your government isn't capable stopping it? Start a movement, demand referendum which will limit immigration. No need to elect scumbags who say they'll do it but in the end as rest of them corrupt bastards will just fill their own pockets.

Although I like most of you posts, especially when it comes to Slavs, I doubt that you have a clear picture of Denmark or Dansk Folkeparti...
First of all, there's no corruption in Denmark. And though there are some very rare cases of state resources are being misused or used in a wasteful way, I have not heard about Danish top politicians "filling their pockets" with anything, ever.
A referendum or a movement involving limiting immigration, or even a far less radical movement, will be instantly called chocolate chip cookie-einstein, and there will be just as big counter movement, and there will be trouble in the city. It's all happened before, it's all known, and it's not how it can work here ( it's only my opinion, and I'm Russian, so Danes are welcome to correct me if needed )
Copenhagen is a big city, but it's still only 1/4 - 1/5 of Danish population. Danes live in small cities. So demonstrations and anti-demonstrations, as they are called here, will mostly represent the central Copenhagen, where the majority of Enhedslisten voters ( ecological communist socialists or something) reside.
A proper voting is the only reasonable way of representing the whole of Denmark.
Dansk Folkepari is far less radical than a similar party would be in non-northern-Europe. I am an immigrant myself, and I still find their goals and current actions as very appealing. Personally, I want Denmark to be the way it was 15-20 years ago. I want it to be like this forever. I don't want any change, i don't want to "move on with the world's development" or whatever the fuck it's being called, I just don't want to let anyone fuck things up.
Fair vages for the workers, limit on luxury, proper elderly care, great state youth programs, high working ethics, state support of those who are truly in need, and I want to feel comfortable around everyone, feel safe everywhere, know that I can speak to anyone, and it's all good - cause I know that we all share same values, and Danish flags here and there for no reason other than its a one more good day in Denmark, cause it's hyggeligt

Now I can't look in the future, but I believe in the local voting system, and I would like to give a different politics a chance. You can always vote for someone else next time in 4 years and this much will not change for sure.

[Angantyr]

Many with immigrant backgrounds vote Dansk Folkeparti. In fact, it was a young girl of Iranian descent, herself an immigrant but respectfully integrated and like Armpit one I am proud to consider my fellow citizen, who was a Dansk Folkeparti member who prompted me to look more closely at immigration crime statistics.

[Grytviken]

Of course, just like all the migrant workers that were brought in after the second world war were going to return to their countries. Whatever would we do without a resentful, violent underclass of foreigners that have massive cultural conflicts with western values. The occasional mass murder, the increasingly violent political dissidents, the absolute refusal to integrate, the disproportionate amount of crime commited, that is but a small price to pay to make sure our capitalists can pay subsistence minimum wages to as many drones as possible. And all we have to do is wait for the US and Russia to socially engineer the worst shitholes of the Middle-East and Africa into functional countries for the endless waves to stop! Hahahahahahahaha. Any time now I'm sure. Seriously though, maybe get working on civilizing Detroit before moving on to country sized areas.

 Someone has to do the culture sensitivity and integration work and the EU seems to be up for the job, we asked Putin and he said no. These kind of changes take time and you can't expect any fast results, just remember multi-culti is your strength and you'll be fine.

[Xant]

http://coolhaus.de/art-of-controversy/erist32.htm

[Tibes]

Lets clarify that its islamic immigration. A political form/culture that hasnt given birth to a single successful, free and modern society that doesnt harass an insanely huge number of groups of people and is well known for being one of the most intolerant ones currently still existent to this day. Is it really so shocking to anyone why nobody with some common sense wants to roll the dice with those people that come from that part of the world with those views?

Not against immigration itself. I wish Canadians or the Danish would migrate to my country. Id pay to make that happen. 

[Butan]

Lets clarify that its islamic immigration. A political form/culture that hasnt given birth to a single successful, free and modern society that doesnt harass an insanely huge number of groups of people and is well known for being one of the most intolerant ones currently still existent to this day. Is it really so shocking to anyone why nobody with some common sense wants to roll the dice with those people that come from that part of the world with those views?

Not against immigration itself. I wish Canadians or the Danish would migrate to my country. Id pay to make that happen. 

Too bad those people dont come with an islamic tag on their forehead, everyone would agree then.

[Angantyr]

Exactly,

These parties are the same the world over. Even when they accidentally stumble upon a decent point they justify it with the most retarded argument.

That's the danger, you vote for a party because they agree with you on a core subject. But they reached this conclusion for stupid reasons, which gives an indication of the type of innovative decision-making you can expect from them moving forwards.

This party is pro-monarchy cos history and pro-church cos history. Y'know, all that good stuff that the cRPG community loves. The only reason they're not a joke on this forum is because they are also anti-immigration cos history.
Does that mean that on this forum: immigration>religion>monarchy?

Be wary of outright dismissing arguments where you don't necessarily know the underlying reasoning.

The argument is this, and there's been written a lot of literature in Scandinavia about this during our life time; the Scandinavian high-tax (among the highest in the world) welfare model relies to a great degree on mutual responsibility towards your fellow citizens and society as a whole; social capital and norms of reciprocity. This builds on a large part on the social and cultural homogeneity of the Scandinavian societies (among the most ethnically homogeneous in the western world), which among other things is why we are the only societies in the world with such systems in place, which at the same time also places us in the top of all social development indexes. Something worth being conservative about if anything is in my opinion, and Armpit's as you can see here, aswell as any other Dane's I know or have heard of.

Classifying countries as immigrant nations even if everyone know it's a vague term susceptible to change (such as Germany going from being a nation of major emigration to becoming a leading 'immigrant nation' in this century) is not uncommon in studies, what is simply alluded to here is that Denmark has had very little immigration compared to most other countries throughout history, and among other things due to the welfare model we use it is not deemed in our interest to have too much of it in any foreseeable future.

Concerning the monarchy and church, then you have to understand it in the Danish context; in any study we are one of the least religious countries in the world (the countries with the highest degree of criticism of religion in public schooling is in Northern Europe), but we have a state church called Folkekirken, so the pro-Lutheran Church point is more a cultural point than a religious one. And our monarchy is also a lot more about culture , we are a small and very egalitarian society so the monarchy doesn't really stand for the class system as it does elsewhere, our Queen is cool, down to earth and very loved by the people (I honestly wish I had served her somehow in my youth as my father did in the Queen's Life Guards) and so is the Crown Prince. I foresee the monarchy being phased out within a few generations, though, its time as a cultural institution is slowly running out as the distance to the pre- World Wars Old World becomes greater and greater. But who knows.

Anyway, people don't vote for Dansk Folkeparti for those two points, they vote for them for taking care of the sick and the elderly and most of our population across any class gaps, animals and the environment, and especially their stance on law and non-western immigration in the face of a decade of Social Democrat open border policies. They also happen to have some hard-working serious people in parliament.