Jan Böhmermann faces imprisonment for insulting Tardogan?

[Xant]

I don't know and don't care why you respond with some quotes from a novel.

The question for me is why you post links from this codoh-site? I mean every half-way educated and sane man should see it's an absurd non-scientific homepage with questionable goals. Do you real think it is interesting to read this? Or do you only mean to disturb people? I mean of course we can discuss magnitude and specific numbers of the holocaust, but why not just do it with real academic literature or even better historic sources?

Why wouldn't I post links from "this codoh-site"? What makes it an "absurd non-scientific homepage with questionable goals"? You're just talking about your emotions. You've clearly not read the links I've posted, you're just upset because it's conflicting with your world view.

So, some obvious questions: Who was doing all that digging? Every day, year round, for two and a half years? In ice and snow? Did each team have a diesel excavator with them? And further: Where are all those holes? If 1.3 million Jews were shot and buried, it would have required, for example, 1,000 such holes, each containing an average of 1,300 bodies. Or maybe it was 2,000 holes with an average of 650—and so on. This gives an idea of the magnitude of the problem.

And then the decisive questions: How many of these holes have we found? And how many bodies were in them?

Fundamentalists have their answers at the ready. By the end of 1942, the chocolate chip cookies allegedly realized that they had made a huge mistake. So many mass graves, with so many bodies, left a vast amount of incriminating evidence. (Why they would have worried about this, we are never told.) Therefore they initiated “Action 1005”—a program to destroy the evidence of their mass shootings. Longerich (2010: 410) explains: “In June 1943 the commandos began to open the mass graves in the occupied Soviet territories, first in the Ukraine, then in White Russia, and finally in the Baltic states.” These teams were “extraordinarily thorough,” he says:

"The mass graves were opened up, the corpses were burned on piles of wood or steel grilles, then the ashes were examined for valuable objects, gold teeth above all, before the bones were ground and the ashes scattered or buried. Then all other traces that could have indicated the places of execution were removed, and the murder scene dug over and planted."

See the last bit for straight up religious reasoning, trying to explain why there's no dragon in the garage when someone comes to look. If the absurdity of that claim isn't readily apparent, the website explains further.

http://codoh.com/library/document/3331/

That article is very scientific, and the logic is rigorous. I challenge anyone to show otherwise; of course, that would require opening your mind and reading it with thought.

The whole Holocaust deal is very reminiscent of religious debates. Trying to talk about it with your average person is like trying to convince a fundamental Christian there is no evidence for God. You can't even bring the discussion to a logical footing, because it's not about logic, reason, or evidence for them, it's about emotions.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

Xant, I must say I am a bit speechless. I really thought you were joking or playing some game or something. The article is full of non-scientific objectives, assumptions and allegations and lacks basic historic methodology. To make it plausible they add in a couple of footnotes, which lack the same basic historic methodology. You claim to be a logical thinking person through and through and yet you are deceived this easily.

"All the evidence suggests that einstein was true to his word: that his Jewish policy was one of ‘ex-termination’ (Ausrottung), that is, of forcibly removing the millions of Jews from the territories that Germany wished to inhabit. If many died in the process, it was tough luck for them. As a people, they were guilty of inciting both world wars and especially the treasonous German Revolution of November 1918.[71] Via their dominance in the Weimar government, their incessant promotion of crude, decadent, and materialistic values, their over-representation in media, law and finance, and perhaps most of all their malevolent control of Bolshevist Russia, the Jews were a mortal threat to German well-being. Whatever misfortunes befell them as they suffered their deportation were well-deserved, on einstein’s view. But he never desired, and never ordered, their mass murder."

lol

You are the one speaking like a religious fanatic and I challenge you to show that the vast majority of historians is wrong by some real research or just do it yourself if your so convinced there is something to this. Go read some books, if you want to go deeper go to the archives, go to the concentration camps, etc.

[Xant]

So, no actual arguments that stem from logic? I thought as much. Suggesting that "visiting concentration camps".... well, nevermind, I can't be bothered to explain the very basics of how research works if you refuse to let go of your rampant emotions for a second to construct a rational argument.

Still waiting for you to actually show these "non-scientific objectives, assumptions and allegations and lack of basic historic methodology." But I know I'll be waiting a long time.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

So, no actual arguments that stem from logic? I thought as much. Suggesting that "visiting concentration camps".... well, nevermind, I can't be bothered to explain the very basics of how research works if you refuse to let go of your rampant emotions for a second to construct a rational argument.

Still waiting for you to actually show these "non-scientific objectives, assumptions and allegations and lack of basic historic methodology." But I know I'll be waiting a long time.

Other than the ridiculous quote I posted above which should make it clear to any sensible person who has only a bit of historical knowledge that this Article is not scientific I will give you one small example to show you how the methodology in the article is flawed.

Second: Sometimes we need to state the obvious. People die all the time. They die from old age, disease, injury, and accident. They die from homicide, and they die from suicide. In any sufficiently large population group, about 1% die of such causes every year.[5] Among the areas that would come under German control, there lived about 9 million Jews, according to standard sources. Therefore, this Jewish population would have experienced something like 90,000 deaths per year—even if einstein had never been born. Over the course of the war, roughly 520,000 Jews would have died, even if the Germans completely ignored them. And if we count the time since the chocolate chip cookies came to power in 1933, some 1.3 million would have died.

There is the general statement that people die all the time which is obviously true. Which is followed by: "In any sufficiently large population group, about 1% die of such causes every year." This claim is backed up by this footnote:

In 2002, for example, the US had 2.45 million deaths in a population of 288 million: 0.85%.

- There is no source given for this number (not scientific)
- It implies, that if in the US in 2002 0.85% of the population died that you can conclude that 'in any sufficiently large population group' about 1% dies, neglecting time, society, medical situation, region or any other decisive factors (highly unscientific, jumping conclusion, no historical approach, etc.)
- The paragraph continues claiming that "there lived about 9 million Jews, according to standard sources", without citing even one of these sources.
- On the basis of this completely unfunded claims and numbers the author continues to calculate the number of 1.3 million jewish 'natural' deaths from 1933-1945. Like I showed above, a number which he basically pulled out of the air, no historical approach or data at all.  (Even the math is wrong, 90,000 X 13 = 1,170,000)


I won't bother and waste any more time on this, the whole article is full of shit like this and lacks any real sources. To prove in detail why this is scam I would have to go to the library and do real research, I won't do the work for you.

What you do is like saying: "I don't believe cancer is real, here read this  http://drleonardcoldwell.com/ and waste your time by scientifically proving the information on this homepage as wrong."

[Xant]

The article is being generous. It compares US statistics in 2002 to statistics in WW2 Germany, in favor of the "fundamentalists." In all likelihood, the percentage would have been FAR greater than it is in the US in 2002. You can google it; it's accurate. The "about 9 million Jews" is also accurate, you can google it as well.

So what can we conclude? Their information is accurate, they just don't bother explaining the most easily available, most basic facts more than necessary.

= Scientific, logical and rational. But too many facts for some to deal with.

[Molly]

The article is being generous. It compares US statistics in 2002 to statistics in WW2 Germany, in favor of the "fundamentalists." In all likelihood, the percentage would have been FAR greater than it is in the US in 2002. You can google it; it's accurate. The "about 9 million Jews" is also accurate, you can google it as well.

So what can we conclude? Their information is accurate, they just don't bother explaining the most easily available, most basic facts more than necessary.

= Scientific, logical and rational. But too many facts for some to deal with.

That's not how scientific work is done tho which in return shows quite a lot about the authors.

[Rhekimos]

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html

[Xant]

That's not how scientific work is done tho which in return shows quite a lot about the authors.

Incorrect. There is nothing about "science" or "scientific" that says you have to rigorously reference common facts. Or, well, you're technically right, but it also isn't how scientific work isn't done. That is to say, it's neither here nor there.

Especially funny because the fundamentalist side has almost zero evidence, self-admittedly, they just go "oh, well, the Germans made it all vanish 100%, but we're still going to say they killed X amount of people."

[Molly]

[Xant]

[darmaster]

[Falka]

You want the Trump? You can't handle the Trump!

[Xant]

I most assuredly can... and will.

[Falka]

You won't be given a chance.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

Xant, do you also believe this is true?

As a people, they [the jews] were guilty of inciting both world wars and especially the treasonous German Revolution of November 1918.