I see.
Well if that's the case.... that Merc video is still up on the forums, proofing the rainbow arrows texture usage of several of their members. Go ahead Shoot!
Cheats and Proof. case closed
Whats holding you back?
How much respect i have for you Uthred on what you did for CRPG. I'd have to call bullshit on this one.
And where were the admins and moderators to moderate and enforce the rules on players/admins, about bigotry, discriminatory speech, hate speech etc on Russians?
Pandor wasnt only treated as player that cheated, but as "another scumbag" Russian and cheater, some admins and players did not hold off, to point his russian heritage as well, and make him even more so wide open for slander, abuse and generalization.. and grab other random russian players into the heat as well, to take a huge shit on them... without any reprecussion.
No matter how you look it it, the upvotes, populistic bias was clear and played its role. And gave a very clear picture of how deep the admins and moderators sunk and how they allowed the community to become as cancerous as its ever been, by the so called "Common Bias Sense" rule and circle jerking attitude.
No matter how many paragraphs are written on Pandor his ban and reasons why. By this complete circus that was created around it, the fail got real. And there is no way to talk all this right.
What's holding me back is that, as far as I am aware, no Merc has openly shared those files on the forum, AFTER being openly shat on by people for using it, and while sharing he INVITED people to use them. This is as simple as it gets - you invite people to break the rules and give them the tools to do so, you get the short end of the stick. Besides, I can't really comment on that - I only started watching forums closely since what, 2013? And I'm an admin since 2014 - Pandor is the first case of this type that I know of.
And I agree, it's a bit shitty to point out someones nationality as part of the reason for their behaviour - while the russian cheater stereotype exists for a reason, we DON'T assume automatically that russian = cheater, Pandor was treated as a common player who shared a cheat and was seen using it -
and the SHARING PART was the incriminating part. Using it was just icing on the cake, fitting, but not most important. The ban on him is
a temporary measure - we're discussing what his fate should be, and trust me, admins aren't a hive mind and people are voicing different opinions, which will take effect in a couple of days.
And regarding the racism and bigotry - if it's in the game, standard Mute should work, if on forums and is continuted behaviour, the used could/should be reported/warned. Casual racism isn't fine, and can sometimes be passed as banter. At the same time, I don't think that Pandor being russian is the only reason people are against him. Correlation doesn't imply causation))
so pandor got banned for attitude, even tho he didn't insult anyone?
pandor is a troll, i argued with him many times, sometimes i want to punch him
But i think red line should be drawn before something like this happens and not after. U basically banned him and then said how horrible it is. Some commented on how its disapproved, but nobody said its forbidden, because even admins didn't know how to deal with this situation. But i see little difference in someone using native arrows and someone using green arrows. If one is advantage then another is advantage too. If someone would kill 5 ppl in real life and another kills 10 ppl in real life for the same reasons - they both murderers then.
I don't urge u to ban ppl for native arrows because i see nothing wrong with that, but pandor shouldn't get banned too. Or at list make a rule - its ok to use native arrows but we'll fuck u up for flying coloured dicks. If u think that green arrows give u advantage then native also do that. I played native few nights when we had no one on servers, was way too easy u can see all arrows.
Pandor is big retard at times but should be unbanned. He leveled his archer for years to be banned for something uncertain, something as one of admins called - grey area. Make a rule and if he breaks it he should get punishment.
And all people who play on our side, and its not just greys anymore but also eques, some mercs etc know one thing very well: When we join strat battle and there is a fog, we all asking if anyone who joined later or sooner had a fog and if there is one for those who joined sooner, all out team rejoining server!!! I think everyone does that.
Someone shared natives and other mods on forum, pandor shared his. Stupid - yes, bannable - no.
I've read that hourse sounds made louder in mod then other sounds because it makes them more realistic, maybe true, but it still gives advantage over other players.
Never even heared of that thing with horses, pandor too - he just asked me where he can download and that he always wanted it
))
He already punished by not playing for some days now, without anyone writing to him what he has to do to get unbanned. So i guess his ban can go on for months until u work out.
I dragged him in this strat because he didn't want to play at all, told him country need him (tho i didn't tell him that country was Estonia), and then he got exited in crpg again and played there too almost every day. And now he can't play because of "common sense" and he doesn't understand how this common sense works, since mercs invented coloured shit, since a lot of players use native arrows, since ppl remove night from their game and mod the shit out of their CRPG and don't get banned. He thought it was perfectly normal since a lot of players mod shit and post it on forum. He trolled a bit but never expected to get banned for this.
Sorry but ur common sense sucks + double standards + personal preferences.
+ don't troll blueknight since he is a very good and respected guy!
I would use a different analogy, (at least in my opinion it's more correct) - if a guy plays Paintball, and fixes his gun with a different crosshair, for different look (native arrows), that's ok. But if he adds a laser pointer (cucumber arrows), it's a bit over the top. But
USING the stuff is a completely different thing than
SHARING it - and I repeat, it's
his MAIN charge. The same way you can get charged and put in jail for sharing a torrent, but downloading it is in that grey area of "not really enforced unless extreme cases"
Not all admins are in favour of the ban, and I'm sure some have changed their opinions over time and as dicussion continued.
His attitude wasn't the main reason for the ban, the sharing of the cheat was. However, his attitude didn't help him
But i love the fact, that you recognize that there is in fact discrimination even tho you think it doesnt stick out enough, and fully aware choose not to act or dont care personally. But as an admin elected to enforce the rules simply idle or skip over it, since on a personal level have different idea of what #No racism, sexism, discriminatory speech, images or similar.. means. And ontop of that dont even care to take a look, if you missed any.. when people are complaining about it.
You've proven several of my points.
Of all the rules, I have to admit the one about shittalking is the most "subjective" and depends on the admin reacting to it. Generally, we're very strict on chocolate chip cookie references due to german laws and servers being in Germany,
for obvious reasons, somewhat strict about racism (isn't as horribly present in EU as it is in NA, less controversy as well), BUT - regarding shitting on someone due to their nationality, it's mixed. Usual approach is that if people are talking and throwing "jokes" between eachother, it's not something we have to intervene in - why would you reply to their insults with insults, unless you'd enjoy the flame war? Just mute them, or report them to an admin. However, if someone doesn't reply and the insulting person doesn't stop, we take action if it's going over the line.
On forums, I have no idea how moderators work because I'm not a moderator. Panos gets muted every couple days for anti-turk stuff and other flaming he does in his spare time from begging on the streets, but joking about other nationalities isn't as harshly moderated because, I guess... it carries less of a controversy? Honestly russians just aren't reporting the insults thrown against them. I generally don't ban for insulting in-game, unless it's crazy spam or going for a long time, but we don't discriminate - muting is used whenever a person feels that it's TOO MUCH and the insulter doesn't stop after a warning, or being muted by the individual player.
But I agree, insulting Pandor and other Druzhina members because they're eastern slavs (not just russians, polan strok) is dumb. It leads to nothing and arguing that someone has a specific trait (like being a cheater) because of their nationality is just stupid, sorry.
http://forum.melee.org/na-(official)/ban-illuminati_/msg843711/#msg843711dat forum heroes are shit in this game i know for a long time but the forum heroes failing even at their own playground it's even more funny
look at this topic and those responses
'If people want me banned for using textures that aren't against the rules they can make a ban thread, but don't try to steer away from the topic of this thread.' top kek lol
'Maybe check the rules first. :p
I agree the textures are pretty dumb, but they are totally legal and have always been around.'
'Message me if you do want them or to know about them please. I'd rather not stray away from the topic.' buahahahahaaha top kek
and the fucking cherry on the cake Admin decision
'Illuminati's record is pretty clean so I am going to let this off with a warning. Please do not nudge reloading xbowmen. Also, I was on the server at the time and this could have been reported to me in I chat which would have immediately cleared this up. Locking thread, please direct any criticisms to
http://forum.meleegaming.com/game-admin-feedback/(na)-phantasmal/ '
buahahahaahah top-notch admin decision
and seriously should i link to neon weapons, this link is active on forum and dat guy didn't even get a warning?
forum heroes army fail
NA admins act in mysterious ways, I don't try to understand them - also, I wasn't even an admin back then, unrelated case to this thing - again,
Pandor shared his cheat and got temporarily banned for sharing his cheat.Oh Jambi, I am sorely disappointed your ill-conceived and short-sighted attitude!
How could you think that admins may be biased? Shame.
They know what they're doing. They balancing our game as best as they can and just need to ban some russians or poles from time to time to improve morale on the other side. Balance and common sense are the most important.
That's why they have all of admins. It's necessary.
Exactly, Pandor was banned to balance the Bjordban)) Also we plan to unban DKG_Wilhelm to bring back the german war machine for the Strat 6 End Times.
Well common sense tells me that admin that played against us on siege of Tibaut was doing something wrong using show names cheat way too often while playing XBow. Was he using it to find leechers on strategus battle or targets for his crossbow?
Some admins are good, others do what they want.
I can assure you that show names cheat is extremely inaccurate, and you would still need to be in spectator mode to make the most use of it - names that are miles away show the same way as names of people close to you, zero perspective is useless for finding targets, but good for spotting leechers that are far from their group.
Im going to repeat it one more time for you Heskey. If i were truly against the "system" as a whole or however in black and white you mean it, i would have pushed for an unban but i didnt, and nor did i ask for other admins to overrule any decision made on Pandor. I have expressed my concerns and questioned the system on how they handled this, and made examples of why i dont agree with the choice they made and especially how they handled it.
You're not the only one who has concerns regarding how it was handled;
TL;DR here regarding last quote and the point of my stupid wall of text:Pandor was banned NOT by an EU admin, NOT by an NA admin. He was banned by Dupre, who counts as a global admin, as a TEMPORARY measure, untill the active admins from both regions decide his fate in an on-going discussion, which ends in a few days.
Pandor was banned for SHARING CHEATS, specifically that. His ban, at the moment, is not permanent. More information will be released in a couple days.
Was he banned for using the cheats? No. Did it influence the decision regarding his ban? No.
Is it completely alright to mod your textures? Without any control in place, the only thing that controls it is players morality
Can we, at this moment, somehow control what files do players use? No. Therefore, unless that last thing changes, we just won't bother ourselves with claims that someone uses a cheat.
BUT IF YOU SHARE THE CHEAT ON THE GAME FORUM AND INVITE EVERYONE TO USE IT, there's hardly any defence left for you, you admit to doing a thing that is, by common sense, wrong - you share a game exploit. And pleading guilty is the top evidence.
Here is how the situation went down in the day after Pandor posted his thread, and AFTER he was asked to remove the link but it was still there:
A few threads were made in admin subforums, asking what to do -> We tried contacting the Donkeys for advice -> Dupre saw Pandor's thread, banned him as a temporary thing, WITHOUT NOTICING THE ADMIN THREADS -> He noticed the threads and awaits our final decision now.
There was a lack of communication at first, sadly, but we're going to reach a decision regarding both Pandor and addition of a new rule soon.
Thank you for reading sorry for wall of text but I don't have time to answer individually to all posts throughout the day so I let them pile up and dissect them in one reply))
