God, fuck you Kratos!!!

[Kafein]

What does a minimal subset of matter having free will have to do with anything?

If free will can't be measured, does it exist? I would say no. And you keep on dodging that definition.

Yes it does. You understand wrong then. A true AI that isn't programmed to the contrary could have free will, just like humans. A robot that is programmed like current robots/AIs wouldn't.

What is the difference between "A true AI" and current robots? What would be a program that has free will?

If you say that a program can have free will, then you have to be able to design a test that tells you if a program has free will, something that you will not be able to do.
If you say that a program can't have free will, then humans can't have free will either, because a robot can be designed to replicate human behavior.
If you say that human behavior can't be replicated by a robot, then you get the mind-body problem.

Because there is a true state to speak of?

Then what is it?

[Butan]

Get out of this thread you blabbermouths

[Xant]

If free will can't be measured, does it exist? I would say no. And you keep on dodging that definition.

What is the difference between "A true AI" and current robots? What would be a program that has free will?

If you say that a program can have free will, then you have to be able to design a test that tells you if a program has free will, something that you will not be able to do.
If you say that a program can't have free will, then humans can't have free will either, because a robot can be designed to replicate human behavior.
If you say that human behavior can't be replicated by a robot, then you get the mind-body problem.

Then what is it?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free%20will
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/free+will

So a philosopher would say:  Either we don't have free will, or free will doesn't require being the sole ultimate Author* source of your own decisions, QED.

I have a somewhat different perspective, and say:  Your sensation of freely choosing, clearly does not provide you with trustworthy information to the effect that you are the 'ultimate and only source' of your own actions.  This being the case, why attempt to interpret the sensation as having such a meaning, and then say that the sensation is false?

Surely, if we want to know which meaning to attach to a confusing sensation, we should ask why the sensation is there, and under what conditions it is present or absent.

Then I could say something like:  "This sensation of freedom occurs when I believe that I can carry out, without interference, each of multiple actions, such that I do not yet know which of them I will take, but I am in the process of judging their consequences according to my emotions and morals."

This is a condition that can fail in the presence of jail cells, or a decision so overwhelmingly forced that I never perceived any uncertainty about it.

There - now my sensation of freedom indicates something coherent; and most of the time, I will have no reason to doubt the sensation's veracity.  I have no problems about saying that I have "free will" appropriately defined; so long as I am out of jail, uncertain of my own future decision, and living in a lawful universe that gave me emotions and morals whose interaction determines my choices.

Certainly I do not "lack free will" if that means I am in jail, or never uncertain of my future decisions, or in a brain-state where my emotions and morals fail to determine my actions in the usual way.

[WarLord]

Xant and Kafein:

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[sF_Guardian]

Xant and Kafein:

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Wannabe philosophers in a nutshell.

[Tibes]

I think the difference here is that Kafein kinda filosophies when asked to give you an input of his opinion. Xant filosophies to show you that his brain is superior to yours. Cause you are inferior plebs and you need to be aware of that. 

[Kafein]

I think the difference here is that Kafein kinda filosophies when asked to give you an input of his opinion. Xant filosophies to show you that his brain is superior to yours. Cause you are inferior plebs and you need to be aware of that. 

As I said in another thread, Snow White and the Seven Autists. Xant is a beacon of hope for this forum and Europe.

[Umbra]

Any news, im holding my popcorn here? They getting cold

[Turkhammer]

I think the difference here is that Kafein kinda filosophies when asked to give you an input of his opinion. Xant filosophies to show you that his brain is superior to yours. Cause you are inferior plebs and you need to be aware of that. 

Kafein uses sophistry to avoid direct questions.  I guess that philosophical.

[Gurgumul]

Kafein uses sophistry to avoid direct questions.  I guess that philosophical.

AKA using big words to sound smart

[Gurgumul]

So what's the news, Penos? Did you stand closer together?

[Bobthehero]

Betting a stone she closed the gate.

[Gurgumul]

Maybe he got nervous and couldn't build a siege tower.

[Beauchamp]

So?

[Xant]

Tellingly, Panos hasn't updated this thread.