I ask you Europeans !

[Angantyr]

Heskey, don't you live in Ireland, where there's hardly any immigrants from Muslim countries compared to mainland Europe?

[Miwiw]

We could get a ship so Heskey gets some folk visiting him... 

Btw where do you get the 500k??? There are already about a million "refugees" in Germany alone, and the number is going up and there is no way to actually support them properly since months. How should this work in 2016 or even 2017 if it goes on like this. PLUS those who are here want to get their family as well, which mutliplies the number by 5-10. You know how big muslim families are, there is no stop to children, for whatever reason.
No no, a wall at our borders is the only reasonable solution now to stop immigration which is already quite heavy without the "refugees". Education level goes down by immigrants as well, it was announced in Germany some time ago that it will go down soon so the "refugees" can be supported in school as well. If that isn't a point where you simply should cut any additional support... I don't know why people don't get this. Education already sucks, public schools are awful.

[WarLord]

We could get a ship so Heskey gets some folk visiting him... 

Btw where do you get the 500k??? There are already about a million "refugees" in Germany alone, and the number is going up and there is no way to actually support them properly since months. How should this work in 2016 or even 2017 if it goes on like this. PLUS those who are here want to get their family as well, which mutliplies the number by 5-10. You know how big muslim families are, there is no stop to children, for whatever reason.
No no, a wall at our borders is the only reasonable solution now to stop immigration which is already quite heavy without the "refugees". Education level goes down by immigrants as well, it was announced in Germany some time ago that it will go down soon so the "refugees" can be supported in school as well. If that isn't a point where you simply should cut any additional support... I don't know why people don't get this. Education already sucks, public schools are awful.

wow such hate much racist 

[Angantyr]

Perhaps it's better to say that Oberyn is a xenophobe?

I think his line of reasoning (which I generally agree with) hardly qualifies any of us as xenophobic.

I like other cultures and people. I find other societies on this earth generally fascinating places to visit, know about, be in communication with or otherwise have relations to. I still like my home and my people and my culture the most and I'm still against mass-emigration to my country (and other European countries) especially from the non-Western world.

Love for one's own tribe doesn't mean hate for or fear of those of others.

[Miwiw]

wow such hate much racist 

ya I'm albert the second, though isn't it quite funny that einstein actually liked Islam and had no problem with them whatsoever and rather supported their ideas because they were quite similar? 

[Umbra]

We could get a ship so Heskey gets some folk visiting him... 

Btw where do you get the 500k??? There are already about a million "refugees" in Germany alone, and the number is going up and there is no way to actually support them properly since months. How should this work in 2016 or even 2017 if it goes on like this. PLUS those who are here want to get their family as well, which mutliplies the number by 5-10. You know how big muslim families are, there is no stop to children, for whatever reason.
No no, a wall at our borders is the only reasonable solution now to stop immigration which is already quite heavy without the "refugees". Education level goes down by immigrants as well, it was announced in Germany some time ago that it will go down soon so the "refugees" can be supported in school as well. If that isn't a point where you simply should cut any additional support... I don't know why people don't get this. Education already sucks, public schools are awful.

For the 3rd time, thats the figure that passed trough Croatia alone. Time to post kawai anime

[WarLord]

I think this line of reasoning hardly qualifies any of us as xenophobic.

I like other cultures and people. I find other societies on this earth generally fascinating places to visit, know about, be in communication with or otherwise have relations to. I still like my home and my people and my culture the most and I'm still against mass-emigration to my country (and other European countries) especially from the non-Western world.

Love for one's own tribe doesn't mean hate for or fear of those of others.

Oh meh, you didn't understand it, did you? Thats not how it works. Either you are 100% pro muslim mass immigration, or you are a racist. There is no in between.

And seriously, that's how it is for masses and masses of Germans on facebook and other social media. The instant you say something critical about the whole refugee issue, you're called racist, facist or chocolate chip cookie by a dozen of uber-far-left extremists. Sad times.
It's impossible to have a normal discussion about this, because if you aren't pro, you're a chocolate chip cookie and ofc wrong. Also you are responsible for 6 million dead jews and WWII.

[Tibe]

Some day those young mulsim males will learn that if they want to leave their 'slums and poverty' they need to learn the local language and get a job. Since that's the scenario that will give those individuals a better life.

And yes, i'm sure we'll get through a lot of idiots before that lesson hits home. And we will get through them, not a single Muslim living in a slum in Europe is going to see one of those idiots get a happy ending.

You have your opinion and I have mine.

And how well has that gone for the african americans in the US?  A very large precentage of them still havent gotten that point to this day and generations just keep popping up, who never will either. My main question is that why is it Europes duty to literally care for these people, create potential security risks and social problems for ourselves, for our societies and HOPE that mybe one day they will be decent members of the society? For what? Why? A lot of them clearly hate us(not violently), but they swallow it, because they cant go anywhere else.

[Angantyr]

What is the "Western" culture for you? Is there a special way of doing things to be a westerner? Is doing whatever the fuck we want, inside the circle of the law, a "culture"? To me, accepting western culture doesnt mean that muslims needs to start drinking alcohol, gamble, eat pork and dress in a modern fashion; for example.
Our western culture is inherently tolerant, because there is no special way of doing things to be a part of it.

Rationalism, democracy, human rights, women's rights, criticism of religion, secularism, Western medicine, Western science etc., basically all the boons of Western philosophy and industry. Our history, our ethnicity, our languages, traditions, customs, music, art etc.

[Kafein]

Rationalism, democracy, human rights, women's rights, criticism of religion, secularism, Western medicine, Western science etc., basically all the boons of Western philosophy and industry.

The thing is, assuming these values are actually universal in our current world is something we have a tendency to do, even though in most cases that is merely wishful thinking.

[Kalam]

The thing is, assuming these values are actually universal in our current world is something we have a tendency to do, even though in most cases that is merely wishful thinking.

Sure, but I think people who stop and think about it for a minute might realize that these are values we would like everyone else to value.

[Butan]

Rationalism, democracy, human rights, women's rights, criticism of religion, secularism, Western medicine, Western science etc., basically all the boons of Western philosophy and industry. Our history, our ethnicity, our languages, traditions, customs, music, art etc.

Democracy, human rights, women's rights, criticism of religion, secularism = laws that you must respect, if not, justice, jail.

Rationalism, western medicine, western science, industry, philosophy = I dont see the relation with culture.


History, ethnicity, language, tradition, custom, music, art = THIS is culture, but why must people have the same culture than you to be a part of the same society? Am I a bad westerner if I do not respect Christmas, dont know my country's history from start to finish, rarely listen to music, and never go to museum? The only thing I agree with is that immigrants needs to learn our language.


Basically, as long as people observe the laws and make the most basic effort to be a part of the society, I could care less if they respect my tradition, customs, play rugby, drink coffee, dress in fashion, etc... As long as they dont force others to follow THEIR imported traditions, customs, etc... which is almost always against the law too.

It's impossible to have a normal discussion about this, because if you aren't pro, you're a chocolate chip cookie and ofc wrong. Also you are responsible for 6 million dead jews and WWII.

We can have a normal discussion about this... but we need to make our points with tacts, since the issue is very delicate. Something that we forget when in anger.

[Angantyr]

Democracy, human rights, women's rights, criticism of religion, secularism = laws that you must respect, if not, justice, jail.

Rationalism, western medicine, western science, industry, philosophy = I dont see the relation with culture.

Thoughts and inventions are products of culture.

History, ethnicity, language, tradition, custom, music, art = THIS is culture, but why must people have the same culture than you to be a part of the same society? Am I a bad westerner if I do not respect Christmas, dont know my country's history from start to finish, rarely listen to music, and never go to museum? The only thing I agree with is that immigrants needs to learn our language.

My whole post was an answer to your question 'what is Western culture to you', not some behavioral dogma.

[Tibe]

And on the 'culture' note that lured me into this most recent discussion. How many African Americans do you know that dont speak English(/american, whatever)? I guess it was cultural suicide to let them in, look at the US now, all eating peanut butter and listening to blues-inspired music. IT'S DISGUSTING!

Lol Heskey thats actually kinda racist. Like really racist. And you said it. I dont even think or claimed any of that for a second. Wtf is wrong with you? You said we will get fuckton of troublemakers and it will one day iron itself out, when they see clearly that they are not decent people. In US case it still hasnt to this day. Its still "us" and "them". And what goes on in the US, is the best case scenario for yurup, there are 100 ways it could simply turn up a lot worse for us.  In a lot of ways people born in the ghettos will on purpose tank their own life to be "culturally" accepted to their own shitty neibhourhoods, the concept of a decent member of a society does not exist there. Your claim that eventually they will understand is false.

How about we just watch how Swedens doing. If it burns to the ground I think a point has been made. I think it was pretty nice of the Swedish to chose to be the volunteers.

[Rhekimos]

Blues has black origins. Many Americans enjoy blues. Furthermore, it evolved into rock and roll and is now absolutely everywhere and influenced just about every genre after it and is enjoyed by non-blacks as well which is the central point.

The most trademarkedly American music comes from blacks, culturally.

Not really a racist thing to say.