France under attack....

[Admerius]

 
Thanks, man. I just felt the need to go 105% serious since you guys seemed to get into a one sentence back and forth needlessly.

[Butan]

Also, the whole "lol it's so stupid and low status to argue ON THE INTERNET " is so 1995. There is literally nothing making real life arguing "better" or "superior"; and nothing making arguing on the internet worse. On the contrary, there are tons of positives to arguing on the internet, such as being able to check sources immediately.

How extremely surprising that you defend this line of thought, since your only purpose in life is arguing on the internet.

[Xant]

How extremely surprising that you defend this line of thought, since your only purpose in life is arguing on the internet.

How extremely surprising that you're unable to provide any reasoning to the contrary, since your only purpose in life is being a moron.

[Vibe]

Ah the internet yeah... the place for nerds and meaningless discussions.. if only it was used for something useful for once...

[Senni__Ti]

Ah the internet yeah... the place for nerds and meaningless discussions.. if only it was used for something useful for once...

I thought the internet was for porn..

[ecorcheur_brokar]

Thanks, man. I just felt the need to go 105% serious since you guys seemed to get into a one sentence back and forth needlessly.

Huehuehue You thought being serious and clever would be enough to stop this back and forth?

[Overdriven]

I can imagine Oberyn writhing as he reads this:

http://www.democracynow.org/2015/11/19/glenn_greenwald_on_submissive_medias_drumbeat

'It’s the weirdest part of the war on terror, which is that there’s one country basically most identified with the 9/11 attacks and the ideology that drove it, and that happens to be the second-closest ally of the United States in that region, which is Saudi Arabia. They not only were responsible for lots of parts of al-Qaeda, but are funding, in lots of different ways, ISIS, as well. And yet we continue to hug them while waging war on countries that have never had anything to do with attacks on our country.'

[Oberyn]

Glenn Greenwald, the go-to for apologist crypto-marxist bundle of stickss with a hate boner for the West? Why would I waste time reading anything of this stupid bundle of sticks's? Is this the first time you read anything of his Overdriven? You're such a stupid hypocritical ignorant prick it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Hey, why don't you throw some Reza Aslan in there, you worthless traitorous cunt? Anti-muslim "scape-goating", oh hey, more than a 100 people taken hostage in Mali, all those who can recite sura get released, all others get executed, clearly NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM AT ALL. Not sure why I even respond, you're a fucking convert to islam after having taken advantage of the fruits of western civilization all your life. I can't think of dumber, more brainwashed piece of shit. Please leave the UK and go experience wonderful islam in it's natural state. Take your cunt wife with you, as well the probably massive extended family leeching off of what used to be your people.

[Overdriven]

Good effort Oberyn.

That response is precisely what I meant. Thanks for living up to my expectations 

(click to show/hide)

I assume you are talking about Surah 109
Starting at around: 2:43

If your reading of this is what you seem to imply, religious tolerance, then I'm not addressing your version of interpreting this Surah.

Say, "O disbelievers,
I do not worship what you worship.
Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.
Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship.
Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.
For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

Source: http://quran.com/109

With all due respect there are much room to read between the lines here(or as Sam Harris writes in End of Faith, p. 33):
"... it leaves many loopholes large enough to fly a 767
through."
This quote from him doesn't deal with this surah in his book, but it is a fitting description to the amount of interpretive space that I see here.

(click to show/hide)

I'll have a go at the bible just to preempt any cheap points made about Islamophobia or similar:
Luke 19:27
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me."
-New International Version

With a religious text such as this it is amazing that there hasn't been more genocides, especially since the west has had the technological edge for a very long time while still considered itself Christian during that time. Any christian group that claims to follow the bible literally should make a written statement that explains how they interpret this passage(and many many many more passages).

After all... we need to respect each other's mental and social faculties to that degree that we trust what people say they believe. I act according to that principle, if you say you believe it, I believe your statement about your own position.

If we don't do that then we could start nitpicking all of history with our regressive SJW leftist glasses on,
for example: The poor albert H. wasn't hating jews because of the reasons he wrote and said. He was a victim of not having a safe space during his upbringing and he was also triggered almost daily without anyone ever respecting his soft, sensitive soul, he is almost a perfect male victim of the patriarchy.

I actually more meant about the scholars part.

[Oberyn]

No problem, pieces of shit like you and dhimmis like Heskey making excuses for islam and being primarily worried about the horrible "backlash" against poor innocent muslims before the bodies of my people were even cooling was completely expected as well. Can clearly see who you consider your people to be.
Meh meh meh meant more the scholars part, stupid cunt. "Quranist" bundle of sticks, preach your dead old piece of shit heresy and pretend it's anything to do with islam. Oh hey gais, I'm a Mu'tazilite!1! It's a wnderful form of islam, truly the only reasonable one, I'm going to make endless excuses for salafist and wahhabist fanatics while simulatenously pretending I have some sort of moral high ground!

[darmaster]

Ah the internet yeah... the place for nerds and meaningless discussions.. if only it was used for something useful for once...

these threads

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Dede]

Shouting that is even worse than shouting "Allahu akbar."

@Xant
How is it even worser? Do you really think this about religion?

Respecting the dead was hypocrisy? The game isn't going to start for one minute anyhow, the least you could do is shut up for the duration.

@Rhekimos
Obviously the empathy for the victims of terror around the world is selective.
It's ok that one feels closer to a certain culture/nation, and is more affected when something terrible happens there.
But this double standards of morality has reached a disproportionate level nowadays...

Football crowds tend to be more aggressive and nationalistic. I have not defended their behavior, but generalising all turkish people by the actions of those fools is not fair.

They can't even respect symbolic gestures for their own dead by terrorist attacks, what makes you think they would for french people?
Anyways, this is like the perfect microcosm. Stupid fucking ignorant dhimmi leftists like pepe and "moderate" muslims like Dede making endless excuses for barbaric islamists. Really Dede, it was a "protest"? And when they did the same thing after the Ankara bombings, what was that in protest of? Disengenuous piece of shit. You're either an idiot or a liar.

@Oberyn
Get some manners before writing about respect. You are the one who is constantly insulting everyone who doesn't share your views. Seriously, you need an anger management therapist..
Some of this football spectators(not all off them) dont care about the Paris attacks, because they are ethnocentric hate-mongers like your kind.
Again, for them the fallen turkish soldiers and police officers are more relevant, and they expressed this by shouting slogans. Wheter we like it or not, and this has nothing to do with Paris or any kind of support for the terrorists.

Nowhere did I mention anything about Ankara or Suruc terror attacks, and I also didn't write who would be behind it.
The grief over the victims in those bombings(Suruc, Ankara) are not shared by all turkish citizens. Infact some might even see it as a good thing, because they where mainly HDP supporters,.. I dont.
Internal political tensions, terrorist attacks(PKK,ISIS etc.) and the situation in Syria. This are the mainly reasons why a neverending hate is ongoing and the population is divided into groups with no empathy for each other. So, there are groups with different political interests, like in all the nations. This is more complicated than you think...

[Lt_Anders]

Good effort Oberyn.

That response is precisely what I meant. Thanks for living up to my expectations 

I actually more meant about the scholars part.

Good job selective quoting that bible text.

(click to show/hide)

11 As they heard these things, he proceeded to tell a parable, because he was near to Jerusalem, and because they supposed that the kingdom of God was to appear immediately. 12 He said therefore, “A nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and then return. 13 Calling ten of his servants, he gave them ten minas, and said to them, ‘Engage in business until I come.’ 14 But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We do not want this man to reign over us.’

15 When he returned, having received the kingdom, he ordered these servants to whom he had given the money to be called to him, that he might know what they had gained by doing business. 16 The first came before him, saying, ‘Lord, your mina has made ten minas more.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant![c] Because you have been faithful in a very little, you shall have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Lord, your mina has made five minas.’ 19 And he said to him, ‘And you are to be over five cities.’ 20 Then another came, saying, ‘Lord, here is your mina, which I kept laid away in a handkerchief; 21 for I was afraid of you, because you are a severe man. You take what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’

22 He said to him, ‘I will condemn you with your own words, you wicked servant! You knew that I was a severe man, taking what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, and at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’ 24 And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to the one who has the ten minas.’ 25 And they said to him, ‘Lord, he has ten minas!’ 26 ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 27 But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’” Luke 19:11-27 ESV

(click to show/hide)

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/19-27.htm

If I selective quote anything, I can make whatever message I want.

[Oberyn]

Really, so what "political faction" in France deliberately interrupted the minute of silence for the victims? Sorry your country is not like "all nations". It's like a lot of muslim majority nations, though. It's political, it's perfectly rational, same thing happens in other countries, etc, etc. Keep making your endless excuses. Keep pretending islam has nothing to do with it. I'm not going to respect your irrational cunt opinions. Go ahead and insult me if you like, I would give zero shits. The respect of people like you is the least of my priorities.

[Dede]

You are describing the whole thing as if the martyrdom motto has any tangible meaning anymore. These dogs nowadays always shout either "Allah Akbar" or the line about martyrs whenever anti-government people are brutally murdered. These two are used in the same context. It really doesn't have to involve a Turkish soldier being killed by a terrorist. It has become an oxymoron.

Really, I don't want to disrespect you like I did in our latest argument, but I think you have been away for too long from Turkey that you don't have a sound idea about what kind of hellhole it has become. I'd advise you to at least drop the whole terrorist-martyr talk. Today, if you are a Muslim belonging to a sect other than the Sunni or if you are an atheist worst of all, someone who opposes war, an enivorenmental activist, a worker that is a member of an independent union (not one of the government handled ones, which we call a "yellow union"), god forbid a Christian or Jew, an Armenian, somebody who doesn't like Tardogan (as if you absolutely have to); if you don't believe in all the false inflation figures bullshit etc. spewed on your face on TV all day long; if you don't worship asphalt and double-lane highways; if you question instead of blindly accepting just anything; or if you don't like Islam being shoved down children's throats at school starting from primary school; you are a fucking terrorist. That is that and it won't change.

In that case, even crowds of mobs that are in favor of lynching you will shout out the same lines. And no, you don't hear that in almost all football matches. That is again something you don't seem to know. By the way, you previously claimed that you prefer to question things, not jump to conclusions. But the fact that you are explicitly calling victims of Suruç and Ankara bombings terrorists tells me otherwise.

@Daunt_Flockula
Right now I have not much time to respond to your entire post, but I would like to respond to a few points.
Yes, I'm living outside of turkey, but I have still contacts and I visit Turkey from time to time.
Anyway, my assessment of the situation in turkey might not be totally objektive, but I think its way better than of those non-turkish speaking few guys here.
Who think by reading some articles and comments on the internet they have become "turkey-experts"...

.. But the fact that you are explicitly calling victims of Suruç and Ankara bombings terrorists tells me otherwise.

You misunderstood me there, as I stated above. Again, this statement was not mainly about Suruc or Ankara terror attacks, but with the Turkey - Pkk conflict, which is why they where shouting this slogans in the first place.

I didn't call the victims terrorists. They where mainly HDP supporters and some of them might have sympathized with the PKK. That's why some people in turkey might not care about them, or did not find it so tragic.

... And no, you don't hear that in almost all football matches. That is again something you don't seem to know...

Well, I watched many football matches and I know what I'm talking about.

Check it yourself:

They shoutet "Şehi.tler ölmez, vatan bölünmez", it means something like"Martyrs never die, our land/nation will not be divided".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfIvNn8tqzo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhc9yoExvug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ockN9182LmM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1uiEr8LDHU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flneJYG2xPA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la1bQu8YJrk

And the list goes on...

So I'm wondering if someone will connect these "slogans" also with the Paris attacks?