France under attack....

[Jacko]

Again, exactly ISIS point. You are with or against them.

[Piok]

Torches and forks...
 ..show them who is boss here 

But we are in Europa instead violence some social program to reeducate
To reassure them that whatever terrible they do there will be only  very mildly rebuked.
Every act of humanity is for them sing of our weakness.

We need big army but not an army of socio..whatever good for nothing ultraintelligent workers.
 

 

[Angantyr]

Bad business, anyone affected have my sympathies. 

In case people didn't know, ISIS have taken responsibility for this horrible act.

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions in this thread, especially when it comes to ISIS and their intent. They [ISIS] have very clearly stated that their aim is to create black and white narrative, where Muslims are forced to choice their faith or the western world, and that these two things cannot co-exist.

Of course, this is utterly false, there are countless of examples of religions being functional and secularized in the west, Islam as well.

If the intent is to defeat ISIS, then force alone will not work. The west needs to find it's own counter-narrative that it can spin. Cracking down in Islam will only benefit ISIS and other fanatics.

A reasonable start would be by making it so it's another kind of Islam being preached in mosques other than the ultra-conservative orthodox Salafi variant and stop giving the Saudi and Qatari regimes that spread it across the world a carte blanche.

[Overdriven]

Islam works like this: To be a Muslim you believe God's omnipotent, knows everything and is basically the best. Therefore if God says that a robber's punishment should be crucifixion as an example in the Quran and you would disagree saying that the punishment is wrong, then you are basically saying you know better than God and are therefore committing one of the greatest sins in Islam.

God says -> you believe it is the best. No questions asked.

The punishment for theft isn't crucifiction.

Get your facts straight.

'As for the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off the hand of either of them in requital for what they have wrought, as a deterrent ordained by God: for God is almighty, wise(5:38). But as for him who repents after having thus done wrong, and makes amends, behold, God will accept his repentance: verily, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.(5:39)'

If you are sorry for your crime you cannot be punished.

A reasonable start would be by making it so it's another kind of Islam being preached in mosques other than the ultra-conservative orthodox Salafi variant and stop giving the Saudi and Qatari regimes that spread it across the world a carte blanche.

I actually agree with this. The Wahhabi movement has corrupted Islam so far from the Quran it's unbelievable. Which is odd because it's supposed to do the opposite but they have only made themselves extremists and through fear and heavy backing in Saudi have forced much of the Muslim world to accept it's views. Particularly in areas where it's impossible to question them.

If you read about Islamic cultures all around the world before the rise of the Wahhabi's the contrast is stark.

[Xant]

Bad business, anyone affected have my sympathies. 

In case people didn't know, ISIS have taken responsibility for this horrible act.

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions in this thread, especially when it comes to ISIS and their intent. They [ISIS] have very clearly stated that their aim is to create black and white narrative, where Muslims are forced to choice their faith or the western world, and that these two things cannot co-exist.

Of course, this is utterly false, there are countless of examples of religions being functional and secularized in the west, Islam as well.

If the intent is to defeat ISIS, then force alone will not work. The west needs to find it's own counter-narrative that it can spin. Cracking down in Islam will only benefit ISIS and other fanatics.

Force alone will certainly work, it's just a question of whether the western public can stomach it yet. That point will come after enough of these attacks.

[Angantyr]

I actually agree with this. The Wahhabi movement has corrupted Islam so far from the Quran it's unbelievable. Which is odd because it's supposed to do the opposite but they have only made themselves extremists and through fear and heavy backing in Saudi have forced much of the Muslim world to accept it's views. Particularly in areas where it's impossible to question them.

If you read about Islamic cultures all around the world before the rise of the Wahhabi's the contrast is stark.

A way to do it in Western countries could be to demand that Sunni imams be trained at public universities, just like Christian priests (at least that's how it works here), and simply just ban Wahhabism as incompatible with Western values. I'd of course much rather see religion be banned altogether in the West, but that remains a pipe dream for now.

Then politically and economically isolate the Gulf States and their oil wealth that is currently funding and building Wahhabi-influenced mosques all over the Western world.

[Overdriven]

A way to do it in Western countries could be to demand that Sunni imams be trained at public universities, just like Christian priests (at least that's how it works here), and simply just ban Wahhabism as incompatible with Western values. I'd of course much rather see religion be banned altogether in the West, but that remains a pipe dream for now.

Then politically and economically isolate the Gulf States and their oil wealth that is currently funding and building Wahhabi-influenced mosques all over the Western world.

I'm not 100% sure on how it works in the UK but I know the Imam of our local mosque was trained at a special school for it. Fortunately it seems he was taught well as he is particularly opposed to extremist views and often gives very sensible and educated lectures on Islam. Perhaps if those schools were regulated it would make sense.

Problem is that's never going to happen. The gulf nations have too much support from the US and other western nations.

[Christo]

aha-ha AHAHAHAH

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Palestinian-rights-activist-raises-possibility-Israel-behind-Paris-attacks-433010

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Overdriven]

aha-ha AHAHAHAH

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Palestinian-rights-activist-raises-possibility-Israel-behind-Paris-attacks-433010

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

O dear.

The rest of her twitter is full of the same crap. Even I won't deny it was like Islamic fundamentalists. Heck ISIS have claimed responsibility now anyhow.

[Paul]

Yeah, but ISIS is just a sub-section of the Mossad.

[Angantyr]

I'm not 100% sure on how it works in the UK but I know the Imam of our local mosque was trained at a special school for it. Fortunately it seems he was taught well as he is particularly opposed to extremist views and often gives very sensible and educated lectures on Islam. Perhaps if those schools were regulated it would make sense.

Problem is that's never going to happen. The gulf nations have too much support from the US and other western nations.

Saddam used to have a lot of US support aswell, diplomatic aswell as being offered advanced weaponry just like the Gulf States are now. Eventually the relationship will come to an abrupt end.
Of course the oil wealth is so diversified by now that too many powerful westerners would currently lose out on it. Like the probable next US president receiving money directly from Saudi dictators (the Clinton Foundation taking money from four different despots).

[BASNAK]

The punishment for theft isn't crucifiction.

Get your facts straight.

'As for the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off the hand of either of them in requital for what they have wrought, as a deterrent ordained by God: for God is almighty, wise(5:38). But as for him who repents after having thus done wrong, and makes amends, behold, God will accept his repentance: verily, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.(5:39)'

If you are sorry for your crime you cannot be punished.

..What? For a starters did I ever say theft? I said robbery.

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter

The report narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with them both), who said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) made a peace treaty with Abu Barzah Hilaal ibn ‘Awaymir al-Aslami. Some people came, wanting to embrace Islam, and they were ambushed by the companions of Abu Barzah. Then Jibreel (peace be upon him) brought to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) the revelation of the punishment for killing and stealing property, which is to be killed and crucified, and the punishment for killing without stealing, which is to be killed… Whoever steals property but does not kill should have his hand and foot from opposite sides cut off. Whoever becomes Muslim, Islam cancels out whatever deeds came before it at the time of shirk.” (Tafseer al-Tabari, 10/260-261).

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) Said: The blood of a Muslim man who testifies that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle should not lawfully be shed except only for one of three reasons: a man who committed fornication after marriage, in which case he should be stoned; one who goes forth to fight with Allah and His Apostle, in which case he should be killed or crucified or exiled from the land; or one who commits murder for which he is killed.

The context of this verse is when some strangers came to Muhammed and converted. They were ill so Muhammed sent them to a local sheepherd who they murdered and robbed. These robbers were brutally punished by the Muslims. Crucifixion is common amongst muslims, as a punishment against apostates, robbers and murders etc.

How about you get your facts straight?

[Oberyn]

ISIS literally immitate the early muslim colonizers and conquerors. The historical justifications, philosophers, hadiths, etc in Islam supporting positions strangely similar (identical) to what daesh preach is just a massive coincidence. As long as you're a disengenuous, blind, hypocritical muslim cunt.
Still, Muhammed clearly has something to teach us. When you accept foreigners down on their luck into your community, and they betray it's trust, brutal punishment is divinely inspired. Remember that, you 5th column piece of shit.

[Clockworkkiller]

So this is like Europe version of 9/11? Will this incite anger in euros to wage a holy war against the muslims?

[Leshma]

Force alone will certainly work, it's just a question of whether the western public can stomach it yet. That point will come after enough of these attacks.

That force will breed war and will basically mean rolfstomping poor pugs, those who are already roflstomped by their Islamic overlords who control things down there. That's the problem when countries and nations wage wars against each other, they always go for poorest people. God forbid they hurt their equals in same manner.

Reasonable military action isn't going to war with Iraq, Iran, Syria (or whatever is left or those counties) and creating havoc there, hurting millions of people whose only blame is being tricked into infernal circle that is organized religion that promotes death. Go for those tiny gulf Kingdoms like Quatar, Bahrein, UAE. Don't target general public, only those rich fuckers who control things down there. Strip sheiks and religious leaders of their wealth, of their heritage, of their dignity. Show that to their subordinates and common folks and you can bet in few years they'll change their way of thinking.