Free energy already exists, we've been kept in the dark for over a century.

[Oberyn]

I understand perfectly well. You think Dualism, as in the philosophy of mind, is an ongoing arguement, while I think it's been long settled and continues to be disproven every day. You think the human mind is somehow appart and above the human body, while I think they are the same thing. You think humans are somehow above animals, more than animals, while I think we are exactly the same except for some physical differences. And the more science uncovers about DNA, biology, neurosciences, etc, the more I am convinced of it.
What evidence do you have of a "spiritual" realm, and why are you using the scientific method to argue for it? You realize that as soon as something is proven by rationalism ("ultra"-rationalism? what a retarded fucking weasel world. Just say what you mean) it ceases to be a matter of "spiritualism"?

[Vibe]

"What can't be measured does not exist."

This obviously isn't true, but it's a healthy way of thinking. Until there's at least some evidence pointing at the possibility of such a thing existing, it's not worth it to think it exists. Otherwise there'd be a tad too many variables, don't you think?

[Xant]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Science_doesn't_know_everything

[Leshma]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crank_(person)

[Bjord]

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Well, science can explain it with scientific theories but that's closer to tautology than truly explaining something.

There can be more than one truth to all things but according to science it is the only authority that can explain phenomenons; there is only the one scientific explanation for those seeking an answer about the nature of things. You can explain things with math but really, it doesn't even touch the deeper meanings that some spiritual ideas delve into. It doesn't explain the "Why?". Many scientists scoff at the idea of explaining the "Why" because they Believe this is a random universe, everything is random, there is no point. Herein lies the fallacy, but since we cannot fathom the Ultimate Why of "Why are we here? How did we come here?" it's much more comfortable to just flip the finger to the Universe and claim that everything is random.

These ideas don't make sense to logical people like you, because your world view is based only on things that can be Heard, Seen or Proven/Disproven.

“In God there is an infinitude of things which I cannot comprehend, nor possibly even reach in any way by thought; for it is the nature of the infinite that my nature, which is finite and limited, should not comprehend it.”

One of my favourite quotes.

Also when I speak of God, I don't mean the Christian religion's idea of God, who judges us and decides who goes to heaven or hell. I mean the supreme intelligence that gave birth to all of Life, or in other terms the Source of Everything. It is in everything, it pervades everything.

The Big Bang made this universe, but what made the Big Bang? I've yet to see any explanation by science other than technical ones of how it happened.

Science may derive the how, but the why will never be answered by science alone. You need to combine both Science and Spirit for this, that I Believe 100%. Which is why it's very far from my interest to in any way discredit Science.

I understand perfectly well. You think Dualism, as in the philosophy of mind, is an ongoing arguement, while I think it's been long settled and continues to be disproven every day. You think the human mind is somehow appart and above the human body, while I think they are the same thing. You think humans are somehow above animals, more than animals, while I think we are exactly the same except for some physical differences. And the more science uncovers about DNA, biology, neurosciences, etc, the more I am convinced of it.
What evidence do you have of a "spiritual" realm, and why are you using the scientific method to argue for it? You realize that as soon as something is proven by rationalism ("ultra"-rationalism? what a retarded fucking weasel world. Just say what you mean) it ceases to be a matter of "spiritualism"?

No you don't, you think you do but you don't understand jack shit. In order for you to understand what I mean, you would have to know everything about me and everything I know, which is highly unlikely, not only because of your disposition to anything that dares hint at the existence of realms outside the physical one but because you think anyone who does is an idiot.

We see the way we are, not the way things are.

These fields uncover nothing but more questions, they don't answer the why but they to lead to VERY INTERESTING DISCOVERIES which I love to read about, yet they don't answer.

And you reasoning is fucked up, just because I used a scientific theory to hint at a spiritual one it is by default void? If I ever heard something more idiotic. You speak as if the two are mutually exclusive, that one cannot exist with the other.

This obviously isn't true, but it's a healthy way of thinking. Until there's at least some evidence pointing at the possibility of such a thing existing, it's not worth it to think it exists. Otherwise there'd be a tad too many variables, don't you think?

Perhaps, if you don't have a way of discerning truth (your truth). Certainly it is important to be wary, to have a healthy and critical way of thinking - as I do. I've had some interesting psychedelic experiences on top of experiences without having used any substances that all suggest to there being a non-physical realm behind the veil of the physical one.

Meditation is something you  should try, I highly recommend.

[Xant]

Can't tell whether Bjord is trolling or not at this point

[Bjord]

Can't tell whether Bjord is trolling or not at this point

What befuzzled you, dearie?

[Oberyn]

http://podcasts.joerogan.net/podcasts/wim-hof

Have you ever heard about the "Iceman"? It's similar to claims of Chi and other "spiritual" forces. Using the power of the "mind" to control the body (I see it as using the power of the body to control the body, since the idea of "mind" as separate from the material is, so far, complete bunk, and disproven more and more as we go forward in the neurosciences). Unlike a lot of cranks, he willingly undergoes scientific testing. And guess what? We can see the physical, chemical changes in the body. We can quantify and measure them. We can, rationally, examine and explain them. They cease to be a matter of "spiritualism". It becomes science.

For thousands of years people thought diseases and other ailments were caused by evil spirits or god being angry at you or a variety of other patently ridiculous explanations from a modern perspective. And they sometimes stumbled upon cures or treatments, that they would explain in that framework. That didn't mean the framework itself was valid and "true". "Spirituality" is, as you say, practically an admition of ignorance. It's knowing we stumbled upon something, but we don't know exactly what, so we build stories around it. Mysticism is obfuscation. Science is revelation. The revealed becomes mundane. So much of what science has revealed would be considered fucking miraculous magic even a few decades ago, and we now go around and use it in our everyday lives as if it was our fucking due. It's really crazy.

[Vibe]

You can explain things with math but really, it doesn't even touch the deeper meanings that some spiritual ideas delve into. It doesn't explain the "Why?". Many scientists scoff at the idea of explaining the "Why" because they Believe this is a random universe, everything is random, there is no point. Herein lies the fallacy, but since we cannot fathom the Ultimate Why of "Why are we here? How did we come here?" it's much more comfortable to just flip the finger to the Universe and claim that everything is random.

Jesus fuck Bjord.

Those 'Why?' questions belong to philosophy, not to actual science. Science is based on things you can observe or somehow test, not things people make up in their minds.

[Rhekimos]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crank_(person)

Those 'Why?' questions belong to philosophy, not to actual science.

For now at least. The sphere of knowledge traditionally reserved for philosophy has been on the decline.

The basic question of "Why is there something rather than nothing?" will probably be safe for quite some time still.

[Leshma]

Using the power of the "mind" to control the body

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[Vibe]

Perhaps, if you don't have a way of discerning truth (your truth). Certainly it is important to be wary, to have a healthy and critical way of thinking - as I do. I've had some interesting psychedelic experiences on top of experiences without having used any substances that all suggest to there being a non-physical realm behind the veil of the physical one.

So you're taking pills that make you forget you're taking pills?

[Oberyn]

Well you see Bjord's gray matter is a superhuman instrument that can perceive different facets of reality. I'm sure if we had put Bjord into a catscan while he was having these amazing psychedelic experiences we wouldn't have determined the exact neurological and biochemical reactions producing them, what areas of the brain, nope, none of that. It is beyond science's ken, apparently, and we aren't as we speak uncovering more and more of how the brain works. On one hand "science" is limited by the material perceptions of the world, and on the other the mere physical human brain, an instrument limited by an incredible factor to much less perception than scientific instruments, a mass of gray goo residing in the skull of an invidividual, is much better equipped to determine the nature of reality through "lived experience", aka made up bullshit.

[Xant]

Well, science can explain it with scientific theories but that's closer to tautology than truly explaining something.

science
ˈsʌɪəns/
noun
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Do you understand, on an intuitive level, what science is? That is a rhetorical question. You should think on this, Bjord. It is not "Science", capitalized. It is not a religion. It is not a checklist.

There can be more than one truth to all things but according to science it is the only authority that can explain phenomenons;

How can there be more than one truth? What do you mean by this statement? And where does "science" say that "it" is the only "authority" that can explain phenomenons? What else would you use to explain phenomenons? Give us an example, and tell us why "science" can't explain it.

there is only the one scientific explanation for those seeking an answer about the nature of things

What do you even mean by this?

You can explain things with math but really, it doesn't even touch the deeper meanings that some spiritual ideas delve into.

Science isn't mathematics.

It doesn't explain the "Why?". Many scientists scoff at the idea of explaining the "Why" because they Believe this is a random universe, everything is random, there is no point.

Which "why"? It explains plenty of "why"'s. We know why many prey animals have eyes on the sides of their heads, for example. That is one "why" science gives an answer to. If you mean something silly like "why did the Big Bang happen", then only science can answer that too, indeed, unless the creator itself announces to us why it happened.

Scientists =/= science. Anyone can be a scientist. Their beliefs about randomness has nothing to do with science.

Herein lies the fallacy, but since we cannot fathom the Ultimate Why of "Why are we here? How did we come here?" it's much more comfortable to just flip the finger to the Universe and claim that everything is random.

I don't think you know what "fallacy" means, but disregarding that, it's actually much more comfortable to believe that Everything Has A Purpose and there is some powerful being out there watching out for us, than it is to believe that nothing truly means anything and everything is random. Not that any of this is relevant to anything, beliefs of some scientists =/= science.

These ideas don't make sense to logical people like you, because your world view is based only on things that can be Heard, Seen or Proven/Disproven.

As opposed to what?

Also when I speak of God, I don't mean the Christian religion's idea of God, who judges us and decides who goes to heaven or hell. I mean the supreme intelligence that gave birth to all of Life, or in other terms the Source of Everything. It is in everything, it pervades everything.

Is that a fact? How do you know this? A lot of people would be interested to know.

The Big Bang made this universe, but what made the Big Bang? I've yet to see any explanation by science other than technical ones of how it happened.

Because science is not in the guessing game. But I've yet to hear of a single credible alternative to science. Know why? Because there isn't one. You have science, and then you have Russell's teapot.

Science may derive the how, but the why will never be answered by science alone. You need to combine both Science and Spirit for this, that I Believe 100%. Which is why it's very far from my interest to in any way discredit Science.

Citation needed. If a scientist announces tomorrow that they've made a quantum computer capable of communicating with the Creator Of All Things, and the COAT says "duuuuuude, I was fucking stoned, sorry about all the shit that makes no sense, you're just a simulation for my college project", then how has science not explained the "why"? Where is "Spirit" needed? What the fuck is "Spirit" by the way? How would the world look different if "Spirit" didn't exist?

I've had some interesting psychedelic experiences on top of experiences without having used any substances that all suggest to there being a non-physical realm behind the veil of the physical one.

Psychedelic experiences, the most reliable of all sources. So let me get this straight, physical chemicals in your physical brain caused you to see/experience hallucinations (science can explain these) in your physical brain, and that means there is a non-physical realm out there? Wild, man, wild. You're the first one to ever have these experiences.

[Bjord]

http://podcasts.joerogan.net/podcasts/wim-hof

Have you ever heard about the "Iceman"? It's similar to claims of Chi and other "spiritual" forces. Using the power of the "mind" to control the body (I see it as using the power of the body to control the body, since the idea of "mind" as separate from the material is, so far, complete bunk, and disproven more and more as we go forward in the neurosciences). Unlike a lot of cranks, he willingly undergoes scientific testing. And guess what? We can see the physical, chemical changes in the body. We can quantify and measure them. We can, rationally, examine and explain them. They cease to be a matter of "spiritualism". It becomes science.

Again with the mutual exclusivity, by the nine you are daft.

How does one matter disprove the other? The very idea of the Iceman doing what he does is as multidimensional as the Universe, yet the science of this study only adressed the physical aspect. Why? They can't explain the power of the mind just like they can't explain Placebo, yet many spiritual theories are suddenly becoming more feasible if our minds hold greater power than what we are lead to believe. Just like Placebo suggests, just like the Iceman suggests.

So because you can calculate, quantify and observe physical reactions of why he is able to withstand extreme cold this disproves the basis of the power of the mind? Again, you impress me with your absolutely retarded reasoning. That explains only the how and not the why, again. This seems to be a trend in your reasoning, like with many of the logic warriors. The "Why" cannot exist because it implies something so grotesquely ridiculous that is SPIRIT and the MIND.

For thousands of years people thought diseases and other ailments were caused by evil spirits or god being angry at you or a variety of other patently ridiculous explanations from a modern perspective. And they sometimes stumbled upon cures or treatments, that they would explain in that framework. That didn't mean the framework itself was valid and "true". "Spirituality" is, as you say, practically an admition of ignorance. It's knowing we stumbled upon something, but we don't know exactly what, so we build stories around it. Mysticism is obfuscation. Science is revelation. The revealed becomes mundane. So much of what science has revealed would be considered fucking miraculous magic even a few decades ago, and we now go around and use it in our everyday lives as if it was our fucking due. It's really crazy.

If you think spirituality is an admission of ignorance then I'm sorry, you're fucking stupid - or simply too ignorant to find out what it means outside of the ridiculous, preposterous and derisional mockery that you can find online. I don't know how the fuck you derived that conclusion but I wouldn't be surprised if it came out of your asshole.

Let me educate you, SPIRITUALITY is simply the idea that something other than the PHYSICAL  can affect and/or exist in this reality - SPIRITUALITY contains many beliefs, too many beliefs to list, among which even Christianity falls under, unfortunately. Whatever definition you find online is completely wrong, as Spirituality doesn't require you to believe in anything other than the possibility that non-physical realms may exist. You can even be Agnostic. Atheism is the dumbest thing ever but the common trend you will find is Atheism vs Christianity/Other bogus-religion, so really it's just two idiots of the same breed but with different beliefs, not so much unlike Christians vs Islamists.

A spiritualist is simply a person who acknowledges the idea that realms beyond the physical exist. That is as much as I'm willing to admit about my beliefs in this forum, and there is enough evidence out there that suggests the same but as always, skeptics will dismiss things before they even entertained the idea. Basically what makes skeptics so unsympathetic, they don't even care to find out if something could be true but just look for arguments that support their version of "truth".

Come back to me when you've read Eckhart Tolle and Alan Watts, until then fuck off.

Jesus fuck Bjord.

Those 'Why?' questions belong to philosophy, not to actual science. Science is based on things you can observe or somehow test, not things people make up in their minds.

I didn't say that it was up to Science to answer those questions so Jesus go fuck yourself - but really, Academic Philosophy is a fucking maze of theories that can be argued back and forth.

There are some interesting theories however, and some again suggest already to what I believe.

I'm more or less pointing out the fact that many modern scientists of today believe that this Universe is just a fucking random mess out of nothingness and I wouldn't be half-surprised to see Xant, Oberyn and Molly sharing the same atheistical belief.