Can someone tell me what HX is balanced against.... a glass snail ?

[Krax]

This is the list of nerfs i found to hx, if some of em are wrong im sorry and plz correct me.

0.3.0.1
Urist: - added HA skill malus to xbow and removed it from throwing
0.3.0.2
Urist: - slowed down HX reload anim by 50%
Urist: - made HA penalty for HX bigger
0.3.0.3
Urist: - lowered HA penalty to HX a bit
0.4.0.0
Tydeus: Horse Ranged damage penalty(20%) and damage cap(15 damage).
San: Horse ranged max speed reduced to 80%
San: Ranged weight penalty made percentage-based and is now applied before the PT/PD/HA penalties as 1.5x the melee penalty.
0.4.1.0
San: Horse ranged damage cap removed. The 20% damage penalty is still there.
San: Horse ranged speed = 80% with ranged weapon equipped, 90% if sheathed or melee weapon equipped, 100% when dropping ranged weapons/using all ammo (may need to switch weapons to trigger). 0 ammo properly drops when using it all or switching/sheathing.
0.4.3.0
Dupre: HA damage cap increased to 35




Just one of eighter
HA dmg cap
HA ranged damage penalty
80% horse speed
is enuf in my opinion, all of them is to cripple the class and nothing to do with balance.

If you dont really want the class just remove it... dont nerf it into the ground.

against a cav... i cant get away (horse speed) i cant kill rider or horse (Reload speed and dmg cap so i get one shot) so cant be cav im balanced against because they can kill you every time.

against HA same problem. you get one shot. then they get 5-6 shots until you reload... if they hit you need to start againt... so if the ha has a 30% hit rate your dead

against shielders.... dono wtf to do with them.

against tincans ... they stop, present their head and comment i chat how little dmg you do... then write 5 insults while you are still reloading.

my bolts are now heaver than my armor

[Penitent]

I consider HX kind of a variation of horse archer -- not a class in itself.

[Gravoth_iii]

But nerfing classes to the ground is the only solution, because thats the only thing that makes people satisfied. People dont want to be able to beat classes, people want classes to be unable to beat them. Shield + capping flags = ez horse ranged counter. And thats if you dont have foot archers already. Rebuff HX to a decent level again, dont nerf ranged further, buff shields, nerf qq

[ecorcheur_brokar]

You deserved it.

[Blackbow]

you ask to much for a class everybody hate...

no need to remove the class just dont play it and its maybe time for you to learn how to play an other class
i mean a real class, not a class you play just because you enjoy piss off ppl ...

i took some of your bolts on my sexy body and your dmg where decent, same happend with makelele and his dmg was rly weaker ...

why u dont play a normal cav build ? you were ok as 1h cav shielder ... and rly funny to see with your 2 shields =p

[Makelele]

I would argue that class variation has been the factor that has kept us playing for this long and separates the game from others. Certainly dealing with different opponents and situations is supposed to be the challenge. Isn't that what the battle server is supposed to be about? If playing only "real" classes would be so interesting, we could be populating only the duel server.

With the population we have these days, I see little point in nerfing ANY class to the point of uselessness, since the player won't be as likely to play at that point. Certainly everyone should feel like they can make a difference in the game, if they make the effort to. Besides, like Gravoth pointed out, the flags will spawn and they spawn quick with the limited amount of players we have right now, so what is the actual harm in having a couple of horse archers/x-bows/throwers on?

[Richyy]

you ask to much for a class everybody hate...

Hate more

[Oberyn]

why u dont play a normal cav build ? you were ok as 1h cav shielder ... and rly funny to see with your 2 shields =p

No he wasn't. He was fucking shit at it. It's the reason he played HX in the first place, because it was an over powered piece of shit build with no counters if you played it like a massive pussy, which of course he did. Still, he was better at melee cav than inf melee. Watching Hatemore trying to melee has always been hilarious.

[Grumbs]

I don't agree that solo players should be able to hop on the server and instantly make the game less fun for so many other players to the point were people actually rather play something else. Thats the main problem - fighting them is no fun, they lack counter play and they have low risk for high reward.

Also its nice to see actual cav around now - for the first time in ages people have longer polearms to deal with them since they are a real threat since there are fewer HA/HX's around. The difference here is there is lots of counter-play + inherent downsides in having to get close to an enemy to deal damage

[Krax]

All i see here is alot of QQing about me as a player.  what the hell do that have anything to do with hx as a class.

[Finse]

All i see here is alot of QQing about me as a player.  what the hell do that have anything to do with hx as a class.

They just cant stand the one player that is good at his favorite class...

Keep the spirit up, you might be annoying Ingame, but nerfing it to the ground is just bull****.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Its fairly obvious.

Comparing the classes.
Ranged can attack from a distance but can be chased down.
+1 -1
Melee has to close the distance to attack but they can chase down ranged.
-1 +1
Lance and bump cav can outrun and chase down, but they have to close the distance to attack, leaving themselves vulnerable.
+1 -1
Horse ranged can attack from a distance without leaving themselves vulnerable.
+1 +1

Even better; the mounted ranged player can much more easily harvest valour after his team has died, much to the chagrin of actual fighters who didn't get it the proper way. The mounted ranged player can nearly ALWAYS be playing until he, essentially, chooses to die. By this I mean he has the potential to do damage to enemy players while at no risk or very little risk of retaliation, unlike other classes who can have a round cut short by any number of things.

The argument is this: Priority of the vast majority of cRPG players' enjoyment comes HIGHER than priority of perfect balance between all classes, roles, or ways of playing.

You're never going to be able to properly discuss this with anyone in the thread because they feel that the above argument is valid. So do I.

There is a fundamental disagreement in which you feel that perfect (or very good, some people get mad when they see that P word that ain't penis) balance is a higher priority than the overall enjoyment of the majority of cRPG's population.

It's fine that your priorities are different. I'm glad that a lot of people disagree with you though, because I agree with them. :^)

[Gravoth_iii]

(click to show/hide)

Its fairly obvious.

Comparing the classes.
Ranged can attack from a distance but can be chased down.
+1 -1
Melee has to close the distance to attack but they can chase down ranged.
-1 +1
Lance and bump cav can outrun and chase down, but they have to close the distance to attack, leaving themselves vulnerable.
+1 -1
Horse ranged can attack from a distance without leaving themselves vulnerable.
+1 +1

As i see it, HX does have a slight bit of range, but you are still forced to get close and personal if you want to hit, unlike foot ranged which are snipers. HX is more of a shotgun hit and run. They caan attack from a distance, but they will miss too much and wont do shit to the enemy team. Even up close they dont do that much, i would almost argue that the ranged weapon is but a tool to be able to put someone into a defensive pose that you can then bump them in, so your team can take them out. So the bump is the real danger from horse ranged, while the actual weapon only helps to get the bumps, and good HR players will probably score a lot of kills with the weapon too.

Seriously just waiting for flags to then ez counter them is very simple, it does not take that much time, and it allows for more classes to be played as they are supposed to. You might not like horse ranged, but some do. They are hardly strong enough to be unbalanced. If you are in a 1v1 on flags vs HR then thats where things may get interesting, how you manage to deal with situations like this keeps the game alive imo.

(click to show/hide)

I don't agree that solo players should be able to hop on the server and instantly make the game less fun for so many other players to the point were people actually rather play something else. Thats the main problem - fighting them is no fun, they lack counter play and they have low risk for high reward.

Also its nice to see actual cav around now - for the first time in ages people have longer polearms to deal with them since they are a real threat since there are fewer HA/HX's around. The difference here is there is lots of counter-play + inherent downsides in having to get close to an enemy to deal damage

Barely high reward, low risk low reward id say. And i'll have a much worse time if i have a bunch of solo infantry players or corner map snipers that do jack shit, while HR actually often involve themselves in fights, aid with bumps, range stuns etc.

[Krax]

I cant comment on how others play... but iv allways done alot of support by bumping. but you try and snipe as a hx... good fucking luck. Most of my deaths are from melee ppl anyway. Yes the class has a potential to be annoing as hell... but so do a pure agi/ath character, or a shielder, or a kiting archer.

also how cant i be chased down ? im 20% slower than cav and reload that takes forever. its FAR less risky for cav to chase me down vs an archer

[Sandersson Jankins]

I cant comment on how others play... but iv allways done alot of support by bumping. but you try and snipe as a hx... good fucking luck. Most of my deaths are from melee ppl anyway. Yes the class has a potential to be annoing as hell... but so do a pure agi/ath character, or a shielder, or a kiting archer.

also how cant i be chased down ? im 20% slower than cav and reload that takes forever. its FAR less risky for cav to chase me down vs an archer

A pure agi/ath character (outside of a pure agi dagger-thrower or something) still must take risk in order to deal damage to a melee player.

A shielder must do the same, and hitting around shields isn't the hardest thing in the world.

A kiting archer USUALLY has to take some risk in order to deal damage to a melee player; we fortunately lost the Aderyn/KingItchy/etc style of permanent kiting many patches ago. I can't think of a single character, alt or main that I see in NA1 doing this regularly. Most archers ARE able to be chased down.

A ranged cavalry player does NOT have to take ANY risk in order to deal damage to a melee player.

It doesn't matter if the class is subjectively overpowered or underpowered for this argument. It is largely irrelevant. I understand that trying to "competitively" play HX may be difficult. I don't know; never tried. Well, outside of me in 2011 getting stoned as shit and respeccing my gen1 main because I saw Rohy dominating as HX. Regretted that pretty hard the next day. Don't have the SLIGHTEST inkling to now.

I cannot support positive changes (read: buffs) to any class that is not obligated to take risk in order to deal damage to a melee player. Like I said before, you seem to feel that balance between all roles or classes is the highest priority, but nearly all the players in this thread do not share this priority with you.