Poll

 Refugees "flooding" Europe are (2 votes max)

Huge problem in my eurocountry
Small problem in my eurocountry
Not relevant problem in my eurocountry
-----------------------------------------------
Help as many of them as possible
Help only a few of them (aka "non muslims" only etc.)
Send them all home
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I'm from Murica
I just want to click somewhere

Author Topic: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!  (Read 97497 times)

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Offline Westwood

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1380 on: August 22, 2017, 11:43:41 pm »
0
The South didn't invade the North, did they? They didn't try to claim more territory for themselves through force of arms, did they?

Tell me exactly what right did the Union have to rule over the traitor states, despite the traitor states wanting to secede? Where in the fabric of the Universe is it written that the Union had the Holy Right to rule over the traitor states? What justifies them killing millions just so they can tell some people what to do? What gives the Union any more right to govern the traitor states than the GB had to govern the US?

Answer: no right, nowhere, nothing, nothing. Anyone not looking at it through brainwash-colored glasses can see the Union had no more right to go to war with the traitor states than Russia has the right to annex Ukraine.
The Union wasn't the power altering the state of the nation, the Southern States seceded and fired on Fort Sumter without justification, unlike the Thirteen Colonies. I see your official position is that no nation can ever have any right to put down a violent insurrection. It is good and necessary for people to rise against a tyrant, but that is not justified in this scenario unlike that of the Revolutionary War. Are all Europeans this colossally retarded or just Finns? I'm inclined to think all of them.

Nobody invaded anyone, it was all the United States of America. You just keep grasping for false moral equivalencies. Russia invading Ukraine, where do you get these perversions? You really don't know what you're talking about, just stay in your irrelevant ice swamp.
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Offline Xant

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1381 on: August 22, 2017, 11:51:25 pm »
0
The Union wasn't the power altering the state of the nation, the Southern States seceded and fired on Fort Sumter without justification, unlike the Thirteen Colonies. I see your official position is that no nation can ever have any right to put down a violent insurrection. It is good and necessary for people to rise against a tyrant, but that is not justified in this scenario unlike that of the Revolutionary War. Are all Europeans this colossally retarded or just Finns? I'm inclined to think all of them.

Nobody invaded anyone, it was all the United States of America. You just keep grasping for false moral equivalencies. Russia invading Ukraine, where do you get these perversions? You really don't know what you're talking about, just stay in your irrelevant ice swamp.
Ah yes, it's okay to rebel against a "tyrant," so long as you (the winning side) gets to define who it is.

Russia didn't invade Ukraine, it's all just Russia. Ukraine just mistakenly thought it could secede. But it did so illegally and without justification.
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Offline Westwood

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1382 on: August 23, 2017, 12:52:57 am »
+1
Ah yes, it's okay to rebel against a "tyrant," so long as you (the winning side) gets to define who it is.

Russia didn't invade Ukraine, it's all just Russia. Ukraine just mistakenly thought it could secede. But it did so illegally and without justification.

You realize you're a cultural Marxist right? You're denying the existence of objective morality.

Are you going to explain how Lincoln was a tyrant two months prior to his inauguration? You haven't really laid out any basis for your claims, you just keep making more retarded claims.
Maybe you are not bad, but you are a boring person. Well, that's the end of the matter.

Offline Xant

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1383 on: August 23, 2017, 01:00:44 am »
-1
You realize you're a cultural Marxist right? You're denying the existence of objective morality.

Are you going to explain how Lincoln was a tyrant two months prior to his inauguration? You haven't really laid out any basis for your claims, you just keep making more retarded claims.
Of course I'm denying the existence of objective morality, I'm not an idiot who thinks there's some Code of Morality written in burning letters in the sky.

I don't recall calling Lincoln a tyrant.

You're badly grasping at straws now, none of what you say has anything to do with what I said.
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Offline Westwood

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1384 on: August 23, 2017, 01:04:11 am »
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Of course I'm denying the existence of objective morality, I'm not an idiot who thinks there's some Code of Morality written in burning letters in the sky.

I don't recall calling Lincoln a tyrant.

You're badly grasping at straws now, none of what you say has anything to do with what I said.

Dang dude you're a retard AND a communist? Man, Europe deserves its rape. You're not even fucking human.
Maybe you are not bad, but you are a boring person. Well, that's the end of the matter.

Offline Xant

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1385 on: August 23, 2017, 01:18:22 am »
-1
Dang dude you're a retard AND a communist? Man, Europe deserves its rape. You're not even fucking human.
You, on the other hand, sound like a model human being.
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1386 on: August 23, 2017, 12:18:43 pm »
+5
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Offline Grytviken

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1387 on: August 23, 2017, 07:36:47 pm »
+2
The Union wasn't the power altering the state of the nation, the Southern States seceded and fired on Fort Sumter without justification, unlike the Thirteen Colonies. I see your official position is that no nation can ever have any right to put down a violent insurrection. It is good and necessary for people to rise against a tyrant, but that is not justified in this scenario unlike that of the Revolutionary War. Are all Europeans this colossally retarded or just Finns? I'm inclined to think all of them.

You should read history more carefully. The Colonists relentlessly provoked the British until they got what they were looking for, war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Percy,_2nd_Duke_of_Northumberland#American_War_of_Independence


The British commander in Boston, Brigadier General Hugh Percy was very sympathetic to colonial grievances etc.. and did everything in his power to diffuse the situation, but was provoked into war never the less.

The Boston Massacre was provoked as well, what started as a friendly snowball fight turned into someone throwing a rock at a British soldier's head and severely wounding him, getting the response they wanted, gunfire.

The US has a history of provocation leading to war for economic and territorial gains, the Mexican American War is another example of this.

"The presence of United States troops on the edge of the disputed territory farthest from the Mexican settlements, was not sufficient to provoke hostilities. We were sent to provoke a fight, but it was essential that Mexico should commence it. It was very doubtful whether Congress would declare war; but if Mexico should attack our troops, the Executive could announce, "Whereas, war exists by the acts of, etc.," and prosecute the contest with vigor. Once initiated there were but few public men who would have the courage to oppose it...."
                     
   - Ulysses S Grant

 
The Republican Party provoked a war with the South, plain and simple ( is anyone really surprised at Republicans provoking war at this point?). They gave up on attempts to peacefully resolve issues, resorting only to provocation and escalation by supporting radicals. If the North wanted to peacefully resolve the issue of slavery they could have boycotted slave produced cotton, instead they were the South's largest customer. They also could have flat out purchased the slaves freedom to compensate the South so they could transition into a more modern economy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown%27s_raid_on_Harpers_Ferry

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification_Crisis
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 08:09:08 pm by Grytviken »

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1388 on: August 23, 2017, 08:24:23 pm »
0
Can't be a war criminal if you're on the winning side

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Offline Westwood

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1389 on: August 23, 2017, 09:54:49 pm »
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Isn't it convenient how the US always managed to end up on the correct side of 'objective morality' in every period of it's history that Westwood was taught at school? When the 13 Colonies decided to leave the British Empire illegally and defend their claim through force of arms, it was 'objectively moral'. But when the South decided to leave the US illegally and defend their claim through force of arms, it was 'objectively immoral'.

On one page defends nuking cities to protect the lives of US servicemen. On the other defends the most costly war in US history, a war the US could have entirely avoided. If the lives of historical servicemen actually mattered to you, then 'honest Abe' should've swallowed his pride and withdrawn all military from those States the moment they stopped belonging to the US. Ah, but I forgot... it's objectively moral to send over 500,000 soldiers to their deaths if someone tries to gain independence, if only the South had used 'Self Evident Truths' then their actions would have been objectively moral and they would have inevitably won instead. Silly me, forgetting how history works.

...and that's why I'm ok with every violent insurrection devised by man, especially when the purpose of that violent insurrection is to maintain the subjugation of one people to another for economic gain. I am also ok with tens of millions of deaths as long as they are accomplished through payloads smaller than 22 kilotons of TNT, including indiscriminate gassing of civilian population centers.

Dropping the bombs saved millions of Japanese civilians. "A war the US could have entirely avoided" by surrendering to a violent insurrection. Yes, if the South had been justified in their actions... they would have been justified in their actions.

That's just a truism. Do you even realize what you're saying at this point?

I'm going to ask again if you can read, have you ever examined any source documents related to our Independence and the claimed independence by the South? You very obviously have no clue what you're talking about. Europeans should really stay in their lane.
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Offline Grytviken

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1390 on: August 24, 2017, 03:21:38 am »
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Europeans should really stay in their lane.

Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe  !NEW POLL!


 Heskey is merely pointing out the obvious that there are two sides to every story, your definition of a tyrant is ambiguous. The average Bostonian was wealthier than the average Londoner in the 1760's, that doesn't sound like tyranny to me.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 03:28:22 am by Grytviken »

Offline Kadeth

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1391 on: August 24, 2017, 03:39:31 am »
+2
Gentle reminder:

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Offline Grytviken

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1392 on: August 24, 2017, 04:29:43 am »
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...and that's why I'm ok with every violent insurrection devised by man, especially when the purpose of that violent insurrection is to maintain the subjugation of one people to another for economic gain. I am also ok with tens of millions of deaths as long as they are accomplished through payloads smaller than 22 kilotons of TNT, including indiscriminate gassing of civilian population centers.

Dropping the bombs saved millions of Japanese civilians.

The estimated lives that were saved by dropping two Atomic bombs on civilians are just estimates, and should naturally be left open for debate.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Gulf_War#Pre-war_estimates Estimates like this have been wildly off before.


First the Japanese attacked the United States without a formal declaration of war, second the Japanese were considered a lesser race in the eyes of most Americans in the 1940's. Combine these two and there is little sympathy left since they self-fulfilled the "savage" stereotype by their conduct in the eyes of the American public. Do you believe we would have used Atomic weapons against Germany had they not surrendered so early?


« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 05:00:06 am by Grytviken »

Offline Westwood

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1393 on: August 24, 2017, 05:25:33 am »
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The estimated lives that were saved by dropping two Atomic bombs on civilians are just estimates, and should naturally be left open for debate.

First the Japanese attacked the United States without a formal declaration of war, second the Japanese were considered a lesser race in the eyes of most Americans in the 1940's. Combine these two and there is little sympathy left since they self-fulfilled the "savage" stereotype by their conduct in the eyes of the American public. Do you believe we would have used Atomic weapons against Germany had they not surrendered so early?

If you're comparing dropping the bombs to the alternative, the invasion of the Japanese home islands, then the bombs saved lives. Numbers being debated is fine, but that's not what's happening here. Heskey has just been taught to have a knee jerk emotional reaction to fission weapons by generations of scientifically ignorant flower-loving peace freaks.

(click to show/hide)

It's my understanding that the British wanted to use one on Berlin, but I'm not 100% on that. Regardless I would say Allied area bombing in Germany shows that contempt for our enemies applied to all. Even if the premise behind your question is true, what does that change about lives being saved?
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Offline Xant

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1394 on: August 24, 2017, 06:26:21 am »
-2
If you're comparing dropping the bombs to the alternative, the invasion of the Japanese home islands, then the bombs saved lives. Numbers being debated is fine, but that's not what's happening here. Heskey has just been taught to have a knee jerk emotional reaction to fission weapons by generations of scientifically ignorant flower-loving peace freaks.

(click to show/hide)

It's my understanding that the British wanted to use one on Berlin, but I'm not 100% on that. Regardless I would say Allied area bombing in Germany shows that contempt for our enemies applied to all. Even if the premise behind your question is true, what does that change about lives being saved?
Only an American would defend atomic bombs with "but they saved lives!"  :lol:

And you're wrong. As always.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/29/opinion/l-a-bombing-of-japan-was-unnecessary-393488.html?mcubz=0
Meaning lies as much
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