Poll

 Refugees "flooding" Europe are (2 votes max)

Huge problem in my eurocountry
Small problem in my eurocountry
Not relevant problem in my eurocountry
-----------------------------------------------
Help as many of them as possible
Help only a few of them (aka "non muslims" only etc.)
Send them all home
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I'm from Murica
I just want to click somewhere

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Offline Oberyn

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1365 on: August 21, 2017, 12:47:07 pm »
0
Ask a japanese average person about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Then ask them about what Japan was up to in WW2 in Korea, Manchuria, China, SE Asia, Philippines, the pacific islands they controlled, etc. with their insane God-emperor warrior philosophy.

They're very, very happy to bloviate endlessly about how poow victimized Japan was the only country to ever get nuked, truly the most horrible thing to ever happen. They wouldn't know the first thing about Nanjing or Singapore or etc, because it's literally just collective ethnic propaganda. It's why to this day when some bundle of sticks tells me "OMG did you see Grave of the Fireflies? Such a beautiful movie about suffering in WW2" I look at them as if they are retarded ignorant dumbasses, mostly because they usually are.

Pointless to even get into history as a whole, for example I guarantee no paki inbred piece of shit will ever, ever believe he has to "apologize" for the history of muslim conquests and invasions in the Indian subcontinent, or the slavery endemic to, well, every single civilization that had ever existed before Western ones, the only on the entire planet, decided it was morally wrong. Havelle, when proven wrong about his mongoloid idiocy, doubled down, because of course he would. It's not about a nuanced view of history or a "discussion" or anything so rational. It's about creating propaganda for mongs to virtue signal, and in this specific case about a postmodern attack on the "dominant" Western culture, the most eeevvvvvil thing that has ever existed, because self-flagellating retards need an excuse to pretend they are on some sort of moral highground and not actually useful idiots taking part in a culture war they are too idiotic and self-centered to realize is even happening.
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Offline njames89

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1366 on: August 21, 2017, 01:40:55 pm »
+1
I am white and I have to say that I have done little to no genocide or enslaving tbphwyf

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1367 on: August 21, 2017, 01:43:09 pm »
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The concept that a person has to apologise for something they did not personally do or take part in is ludicrous.

Every discussion of slavery and white guilt boils down to the inherently racist view that white man "should know better" unlike the poor ignorant savages with their already thriving slave trade.

Boy I don't know why or how this thread started talking about slavery, but it sure passes the time.

Quote
Everything about this subject has already been said on this forum. I'll just say it again. Western cultures are the most peaceful, tolerant and prosperous on the entire planet. Admitting as much is racist though, and must be riddled with caveats about how we don't really deserve it and the only redeeming feature of western civilization is blind fucking luck. The usual fucking suspects crying about "racism" were predictable. It's the Neo-white man's burden retard script, the europeans with their colonialism and warmongering are responsible for all the evils of the world

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Offline IR_Kuoin

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1368 on: August 21, 2017, 01:52:01 pm »
+1
As a descendant of Nordic people, some who were known as the "vikings" committed horrible atrocities,  I would like to offer my sincere apologies to the people they have plundered and the nuns they raped, sorry, I hope you can forgive me.
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Offline Leshma

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1369 on: August 21, 2017, 05:09:43 pm »
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Quote
and subsequently self-medicated with alcohol and cannabis.

:lol:

It's why to this day when some bundle of sticks tells me "OMG did you see Grave of the Fireflies? Such a beautiful movie about suffering in WW2"

It is not. Anti-war movies are never about particular war they take place in (is Johny Got His Gun about WWI?). Besides you can put Grave of the Fireflies in any other period, let's say there is no war but there is poverty and famine in Japan. Kids still lose their parents in some way and suffer same struggle.

I think they labeled it anti-war movie because critics and general public have a hard on for that. No one really cares about hardships of two innocent children, as much they pretend that's not the case. If that was said to be main focus of the movie, "message" wouldn't be strong enough and therefore movie would be less "significant".

Offline Westwood

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1370 on: August 21, 2017, 11:34:13 pm »
+1
Nobody applies a subjective view to history when it's close to home. The Murican civil war was a threat to the Union, an idea most Americans are raised to despise. Actually, the Murican Civil War was the 'proportional response' to a threat to the Union's integrity right? Colour me ignorant, but the South didn't declare war on the North right?

The Independence War was all legal and fine because the truths were... selfevident... or something. But leave the USA without permission? Oh hell no. There's no illusion of impartiality in the way these events are celebrated and remembered.

The fact that few people question the convenience of "You can tell they were the baddies cos slaves" is just a bonus.


To see the generations-long propaganda machine reinvent basic concepts of right and wrong, simply ask an american about Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Sometimes I wonder about a parallel stream of history where the Nazis and not the US had invested years of research, investment, and tests into developing a city-killing bomb, designed to kill large urban civilian centres and irradiate the area for decades. And as a last-gasp dropped the bomb on New York and Boston to try and 'end the war' when eastern and western fronts began to collapse. I wonder if American schools would still teach that dropping nukes on your enemy saves lives in the long run. I wonder if any country today would maintain active stockpiles of those weapons if the Nazis had been the ones to first design and use them, and if it had been US cities that had purpose-built city-killers dropped on them before the war's end. I'm being rhetorical, of course we know the world would condemn that action as the single worst war crime in human history, there'd be a day of mourning each year to remember the day it happened, and those weapons would enjoy a worse status than chemical/biological weapons do today. Instead we have a history where the 'good guys' dropped them to save lives xD and everyone else developed copies ASAP to avoid being the next historical baddie.

It's a curious thing.

You limey piece of amphibian shit you have no idea what you're talking about. "Haha the Sooth didn't declare wur roight internet Muricans?" An armed insurrection fired on federal forts, even Lost Cause posterboy elsewhere acknowledges that. He makes some legitimate criticisms of what some forts were for, and I can dig that, but some Austin Powers-toothed medieval peasant pontificating from a world away? No no no.

Oh my, tu quoque during tea time? I see you don't believe that humans possess any natural rights and instead prefer to remain an unwashed peon sucking MAGNUM MONARCH DONG for all eternity. Yes, I can see now how from the perspective of the illiterate masses of Europe those two wars were morally the same. Plenty of American revisionists use that argument actually, as well as the traitors themselves at the time. They say Lincoln was a tyrant just like the king, "thus always to tyrants" and so on, but in this case he was a tyrant mostly because they were concerned he would use the federal government to do away with slavery. You seem to be under the impression that this wasn't the case, that slavery was nothing but an afterthought of the war, or a false justification given by the Union. I would encourage you to examine that more closely, maybe even read some of the documents drawn up to declare the secession of those hallowed States which took up the cause of owning another individual in America. If you can find a noblemen to read one such document to you, you may note that in listing causes and grievances and such impelling the State to secede, goddamn primacy is given to slavery. I'm not making that up, they wrote it, not me.

I can understand a Welsh retard being uneducated when it comes to the American Civil War, but my God man, you're going to call a nigga a hypocrite for dropping the bomb? Nagasaki and Hiroshima were targeted for their industrial significance (as opposed to, say, how that RAF top cuckold intentionally area bombed German civilians to diminish their will to make war), and leaflets were dropped on both cities and an assload of other potential targets warning the civilian population that we were about to seriously fuck their shit up.

Do you know what was happening on other islands we took? People were killing themselves for their Emperor rather than surrendering to Americans. What the fuck do you think would have happened if we had invaded the home islands you damned armchair fool? The bombs saving millions of lives, of American and Japanese servicemen as well as Japanese civilians, is an objective fact. If Germany had developed the bomb first and targeted American industry in the same way then yes, that would have saved lives compared to a German invasion of the American mainland. Is it math or abstract thought that you're having trouble with here?

Not only did the bomb save lives, it also saved half of all the Japanese from being literally and figuratively raped by subhuman Russians for the next 50 years like what happened to the Germans. You know what else the bomb did? Guarantee peace among the great powers of the world from the moment they were dropped to this day. You're welcome.
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Offline Xant

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1371 on: August 22, 2017, 12:10:22 am »
+1
Nobody applies a subjective view to history when it's close to home. The Murican civil war was a threat to the Union, an idea most Americans are raised to despise. Actually, the Murican Civil War was the 'proportional response' to a threat to the Union's integrity right? Colour me ignorant, but the South didn't declare war on the North right?

The Independence War was all legal and fine because the truths were... selfevident... or something. But leave the USA without permission? Oh hell no. There's no illusion of impartiality in the way these events are celebrated and remembered.
Exactly.

All this "Con-fe-derates were traitors!!" talk is pretty hilarious. Traitors to what? Why should millions have to die so that one guy can rule over all the states, even though 10+ states want to secede? Where is it written that he has the Holy Right to rule over people that don't want him to rule over them? The war was monstrous -- from the Union side. They got a ton of people killed because they were power hungry.

And like you say, the Independence War is a perfect counterpoint. Well of course it's alright to want to govern yourself, as long as, uh, well... as long as I'm the one who does the governing! But if someone else wants to govern themselves as well.... that's just not right!
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Offline Grytviken

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1372 on: August 22, 2017, 05:34:00 am »
+1
Exactly.

All this "Con-fe-derates were traitors!!" talk is pretty hilarious. Traitors to what? Why should millions have to die so that one guy can rule over all the states, even though 10+ states want to secede? Where is it written that he has the Holy Right to rule over people that don't want him to rule over them? The war was monstrous -- from the Union side. They got a ton of people killed because they were power hungry.

And like you say, the Independence War is a perfect counterpoint. Well of course it's alright to want to govern yourself, as long as, uh, well... as long as I'm the one who does the governing! But if someone else wants to govern themselves as well.... that's just not right!

Good point, Lincoln got zero electoral votes in the entire South during the 1860 elections. We all know how pissed off people get over the flawed electoral college now, back then they were infuriated, it proved that one section of the United States could hold total power over another. 

Legally they aren't traitors, after the war they were all pardoned by the US government, although many permanently lost their right to vote and other basic citizens rights, like the right to defend themselves in court against eminent domain claims by banks and railroads who ended up buying their properties for a penny an acre using Federal contracts as an excuse.

Offline Xant

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1373 on: August 22, 2017, 10:54:00 am »
+3

And yet if they'd won that would have been their Lexington Concord. Now you're a good little American, I'm sure you salute the flag longer than anyone else and thank Jesus for it every night, so I bet you've convinced yourself that the Confederacy was planning to invade the north and therefore overwhelming force was the only option. It was self-defense guys, our only option! It's amazing how dewy-eyed you all get over the excuses you made for independence, whilst it clearly wasn't long before Abe Lincoln decided to play the role of King George III and fight an Imperialist war to keep his extra land. I wonder if pappa Lincoln was thinking about liberty and freedom from tyranny when he instigated the worst conflict in your history.

The only reason those states aren't celebrating two days of Independence this year is because Mr Imperialist boss-man decided he didn't like seeing other people touch his stuff.
I'm sure Freedom For Slaves was indeed the real reason for the war. That's totally how human nature works; you go get killed and get all your friends killed for some abstract ideal that, let's face it, nobody really gave a shit about. How else would racism have been such a big deal for hundreds of years after the civil war? What was the position of the blacks after it ended? If people were so horrified of slavery, surely they made restitution for all the suffering, and blacks were considered equal to the white man ever since. And Lincoln certainly never said anything racist! Or how'd it go again...

But wait! The US was far from the only country with slaves. If the Union was willing to get millions of Americans killed for the Good of The Slaves, then there's no doubt they embarked on a crusade after the war was over to End Slavery Once And For All everywhere. Or if not everywhere, then certainly they'd have invaded Brazil over it, which was a worse offender than the US. But they didn't. Why not? Why was it arbitrarily worse for slavery to exist in the traitor states, a line drawn on the map, than it was in South America, so close to the Union as well?

Could it perhaps be because they weren't really on a crusade to End The Suffering Of The Slaves, and the war was about something else? Hmm...

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Offline Westwood

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1374 on: August 22, 2017, 06:59:07 pm »
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This is why I'd love a glimpse into a parallel stream of history where the bomb was dropped on your country instead as a last gasp before Nazi Germany collapsed. I'd love to hear you lecture me on all the lives it saved, rather than a rant about how it was the worst war crime in human history. I'm sure you wouldn't do that if bad-guy Nazi's had spent years developing a weapon made specially for killing cities and making them uninhabitable for generations, then dropped them on your country.

If those weapons had let NG win the war then you'd be sucking Nazi cock and saying the same words you're saying now. But if NG still lost then you'd be telling me how pathetic and cowardly it was.

Are you actually a native speaker or did you immigrate to the UK from Poland? Bless Nigel Farage.

If Germany had developed the bomb first and targeted American industry in the same way then yes, that would have saved lives compared to a German invasion of the American mainland.

You keep saying this "made specially for destroying cities" bit but that doesn't make it true. It's not about salting the Earth, it's about raw power, how many terajoules of hurt can be put down on an area. We hardly knew the facts of nuclear fallout at the time. Using that kind of flowery emotional language to describe a weapon of war, really only distinct in intention of use from other payloads in its destructive power and the fact that it ENDED the war, just makes you sound like a woman. I'm going to have to ask again, are you unable to do math? ~200,000 Japanese soldiers and civilians died in the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (who were given warning) yes, very sad. How can you compare those couple hundred thousand to the potential tens of millions - of Japanese civilians alone - who would have died had we invaded the mainland? We were going to gas them. That was part the Operation Olympic plan, dropping phosgene and mustard gas Japanese population centers. If you like considering alternate history so much, consider that.

Do you find it preferable?

And after witnessing the immense destructive power of such a weapon the powerful nations of the world went to war again in a third World War, causing unimaginable death and ending humanity.

No, wait. Something seems off about that...

And yet if they'd won that would have been their Lexington Concord. Now you're a good little American, I'm sure you salute the flag longer than anyone else and thank Jesus for it every night, so I bet you've convinced yourself that the Confederacy was planning to invade the north and therefore overwhelming force was the only option. It was self-defense guys, our only option! It's amazing how dewy-eyed you all get over the excuses you made for independence, whilst it clearly wasn't long before Abe Lincoln decided to play the role of King George III and fight an Imperialist war to keep his extra land. I wonder if pappa Lincoln was thinking about liberty and freedom from tyranny when he instigated the worst conflict in your history.

The only reason those states aren't celebrating two days of Independence this year is because Mr Imperialist boss-man decided he didn't like seeing other people touch his stuff.

Here's a fact for you my old friendgot, the Southern States were wholly dependent economically on the institution of slavery. Another thing you may not have grasped is that two actors in a war can have different endgames and reasons for that war. For the South, secession and inevitable "war" (otherwise known as rebellion, armed insurrection, mass murder, extrajudicial killing) was undeniably about maintaining what drove their economy. For the Union, the war was about maintaining the American republic. There is no path to secession in the Constitution, secession of States, counties, municipalities, and people is illegal. Am I above the law because I proclaim myself to be? Please show me on the natural rights of man where the election of Abraham Lincoln is an unjust law that must be resisted. It's ok, take your time, do you remember what he looked like? You must have a lot of faith in democracy if you think that a majority of people can not only vote themselves into slavemastery (which was the traitor rationale), but can also then collectively proclaim themselves above the law in order to maintain such a way of life. Little hiccup there considering it was their loss of an election which prompted that, but hey, they were Democrats so I'd trust their word on democracy, it's in the name after all.

Xant is perhaps the most retarded Chinaman I have ever seen. I'm going to hope there's a language barrier there and it isn't all autism.
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1375 on: August 22, 2017, 08:31:58 pm »
0

And after witnessing the immense destructive power of such a weapon the powerful nations of the world went to war again in a third World War, causing unimaginable death and ending humanity.

No, wait. Something seems off about that...


Tbf, given what McArthur wanted to do in Manchuria during the Korean War, we weren't that far off.
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Offline Grytviken

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1376 on: August 22, 2017, 09:04:48 pm »
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I'm sure Freedom For Slaves was indeed the real reason for the war. That's totally how human nature works; you go get killed and get all your friends killed for some abstract ideal that, let's face it, nobody really gave a shit about. How else would racism have been such a big deal for hundreds of years after the civil war? What was the position of the blacks after it ended? If people were so horrified of slavery, surely they made restitution for all the suffering, and blacks were considered equal to the white man ever since. And Lincoln certainly never said anything racist! Or how'd it go again...

But wait! The US was far from the only country with slaves. If the Union was willing to get millions of Americans killed for the Good of The Slaves, then there's no doubt they embarked on a crusade after the war was over to End Slavery Once And For All everywhere. Or if not everywhere, then certainly they'd have invaded Brazil over it, which was a worse offender than the US. But they didn't. Why not? Why was it arbitrarily worse for slavery to exist in the traitor states, a line drawn on the map, than it was in South America, so close to the Union as well?

Could it perhaps be because they weren't really on a crusade to End The Suffering Of The Slaves, and the war was about something else? Hmm...

It was a complex situation where the North had also violated the constitution, President Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus to arrest and unlawfully detain Congressmen (MP's) and implemented martial law in Maryland. Succession was an arguable question left unresolved for 70 years, many states attempted it years before the Civil War and had very legitimate quarrels about the contract of the Union and the Federal government's role and power limitations.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown%27s_raid_on_Harpers_Ferry

Lincolns Republican Party openly praised acts of insurrection and violence like this in the newspapers further instigating the conflict. Note that the radicals murdered a free African American train worker on their way to attack the town. Only after Lincoln called for a large Army to invade the South did states like Virginia secede in a 2nd referendum.


Offline Xant

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1377 on: August 22, 2017, 09:57:49 pm »
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There is no path to secession in the Constitution, secession of States, counties, municipalities, and people is illegal.
And this right here demonstrates Westwood's intelligence, or, as it happens, lack thereof.

"Legal" and "illegal" are arbitrary things defined by the state, and the state is nothing more than the body that holds monopoly on the use of violence within a geographic region. Countering an argument for rebellion/secession with "BUT THAT'S NOT LEGAL!!!!" is the epitome of retardation. Where was the "legal path to secession" for the US when they decided they didn't want to be ruled by the UK anymore? Oh, but that's right, you said, "I see you don't believe that humans possess any natural rights and instead prefer to remain an unwashed peon sucking MAGNUM MONARCH DONG for all eternity", and you're probably too dense to notice the hilarious contradiction.


Westwood would've made for a terrific Nazi supporter too, everything would have been fine as long as it's legal, and resisting would've been bad because it's illegal. Or maybe... I mean, it's hard to say when he keeps contradicting himself every post.

It's also hilarious that he makes fun of Heskey's English, when the post before the last was some of the worst writing I've ever laid my eyes on.


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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1378 on: August 22, 2017, 10:41:45 pm »
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And this right here demonstrates Westwood's intelligence, or, as it happens, lack thereof.

"Legal" and "illegal" are arbitrary things defined by the state, and the state is nothing more than the body that holds monopoly on the use of violence within a geographic region. Countering an argument for rebellion/secession with "BUT THAT'S NOT LEGAL!!!!" is the epitome of retardation. Where was the "legal path to secession" for the US when they decided they didn't want to be ruled by the UK anymore? Oh, but that's right, you said, "I see you don't believe that humans possess any natural rights and instead prefer to remain an unwashed peon sucking MAGNUM MONARCH DONG for all eternity", and you're probably too dense to notice the hilarious contradiction.


Westwood would've made for a terrific Nazi supporter too, everything would have been fine as long as it's legal, and resisting would've been bad because it's illegal. Or maybe... I mean, it's hard to say when he keeps contradicting himself every post.

It's also hilarious that he makes fun of Heskey's English, when the post before the last was some of the worst writing I've ever laid my eyes on.

Read the rest of it mongoloid. Tell me what exactly about a free and fair election you think should be resisted through force of arms.  Why did the evil imperialist Finns hurt the poor Russophile Finns when your Chinese country seceded from the Russian Empire RSFSR? It's not as black and white as being legal or illegal and if you either had any grasp of American history or reading comprehension ability you'd know that.

What on this list did Lincoln do to prompt secession? I'm very interested in your answer to that, especially considering the first States to secede did so two months before his inauguration.

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Offline Xant

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Re: Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!
« Reply #1379 on: August 22, 2017, 11:11:26 pm »
+1
Tell me what exactly about a free and fair election you think should be resisted through force of arms. 
The South didn't invade the North, did they? They didn't try to claim more territory for themselves through force of arms, did they?

Tell me exactly what right did the Union have to rule over the traitor states, despite the traitor states wanting to secede? Where in the fabric of the Universe is it written that the Union had the Holy Right to rule over the traitor states? What justifies them killing millions just so they can tell some people what to do? What gives the Union any more right to govern the traitor states than the GB had to govern the US?

Answer: no right, nowhere, nothing, nothing. Anyone not looking at it through brainwash-colored glasses can see the Union had no more right to go to war with the traitor states than Russia has the right to annex Ukraine.
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