Market fucking

[Finse]

i Made a post about master Jew Dave once, admins didnt like it and thougt it was spam :huehue:

[Turkhammer]

i Made a post about master Jew Dave once, admins didnt like it and thougt it was spam :huehue:

I prefer to think they didn't like your nasty, hateful and stereotypical use of the word Jew in a derogatory way.  But that's just me being optimistic and giving them the benefit of the doubt.

[Rhekimos]

I checked how many people were selling loompoints against how many people were buying.

15 people had offers to buy a loompoint.

4 people had offers to sell a loompoint.

3 out of the 4 people selling were also buying loompoints for cheap.

So we have a lot of demand and 1 pristine loompoint entering the market via a sell offer. Prices are guaranteed to hike up until more people sell. Though the people with a lot of points might not want to sell their caches of loompoints for gold, with gold going rapidly down in real value.

Some factors for the gold going down in real value are:

- Upkeep not being a problem.
    Light-to-medium armor agi builds are the favored playstyle by the current patch. Horse prices were halved too.
- A big increase in gold gain per time played.
    Both DTV and battle are gold mines.
- Gold sinks are ineffective.
    People trade with loompoints instead of gold to go around the tax. They don't play the lottery anymore. Free respecs took out the fight of training lessons auctions. The only sink still doing good is custom titles, with prices going up to 1 mil.
- Strat is dead.
    No quick retirements with strat xp.
- The market is dying.
    Gold is only useful if you can do something with it. With very few trades in the market, the potential of gold to actually do something goes down accordingly.

In my opinion, booths are in part guilty in killing the market as it allows a few privileged actors with enough capital to set prices as they wish. And we've had two actors buying up all the booths for some months now. And they aren't selling any of their loompoints, but they are too using them as a currency to buy up +3 items instead, with 2 LP + gold trades, almost exclusively. I guess they also think that gold will only reduce in real value in the future.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

When this newest booth auction ends, I'm fairly certain no new booth user enters the fray to compete with prices. Again.

By the way, this was booth situation at the time of that screenshot, in case anyone wants to see if my prediction holds.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login



TL;DR Gold is just plain worth less and less.


There are some things that could be done to remedy this situation:
 - Fix strat so the XP and gold gain balance is restored somewhat. (You only get XP from strat, no gold.)
 - Remove booths to even the market and add more competition to prices.  (This removes a small goldsink but it would also remove a factor that is depressing the market, a big net positive.)
 - Add more vanity gold sinks like the titles.
 - Tweak the tax.
 - Think up new things to do with gold.
And some more painful options:
 - Reduce gold gain.
 - Greatly increase upkeep.

[BlackxBird]

just give us expensive purchable heirloom exchanges. like for 400 K or sth, so it can't be like oh ye, lets change that and that, oh and that and that.

[Rhekimos]

just give us expensive purchable heirloom exchanges. like for 400 K or sth, so it can't be like oh ye, lets change that and that, oh and that and that.

Good idea, that would help anchor the value of gold to heirlooms, giving gold some more stability; like how using 3 lps is firmly anchored to getting any +3 item you want. And it would be a new action you can do with gold.

[BlackxBird]

OMG :O GIVE US ANOUNCEMENTS.

Like when u have +10 mio you are that and that rich.
with 50 mio you are like badass as fuck and get a rank for that! THAT WOULD BE GREAT

So I mean on the server. Id fucking try to get that 10 mio imo and wouldn't sell them anymore

[AwesomeHail]

well, then we would probably have walls of purple text. No thanks 

[BlackxBird]

well, than make it only one title and u get this one with 30 mio. So ppl who actually want it have to spent tons of loomz to get it, cuz I don't think anyone got spare 30 mio somewhere xD

[Zeltino]

(click to show/hide)

I checked how many people were selling loompoints against how many people were buying.

15 people had offers to buy a loompoint.

4 people had offers to sell a loompoint.

3 out of the 4 people selling were also buying loompoints for cheap.

So we have a lot of demand and 1 pristine loompoint entering the market via a sell offer. Prices are guaranteed to hike up until more people sell. Though the people with a lot of points might not want to sell their caches of loompoints for gold, with gold going rapidly down in real value.

Some factors for the gold going down in real value are:

- Upkeep not being a problem.
    Light-to-medium armor agi builds are the favored playstyle by the current patch. Horse prices were halved too.
- A big increase in gold gain per time played.
    Both DTV and battle are gold mines.
- Gold sinks are ineffective.
    People trade with loompoints instead of gold to go around the tax. They don't play the lottery anymore. Free respecs took out the fight of training lessons auctions. The only sink still doing good is custom titles, with prices going up to 1 mil.
- Strat is dead.
    No quick retirements with strat xp.
- The market is dying.
    Gold is only useful if you can do something with it. With very few trades in the market, the potential of gold to actually do something goes down accordingly.

In my opinion, booths are in part guilty in killing the market as it allows a few privileged actors with enough capital to set prices as they wish. And we've had two actors buying up all the booths for some months now. And they aren't selling any of their loompoints, but they are too using them as a currency to buy up +3 items instead, with 2 LP + gold trades, almost exclusively. I guess they also think that gold will only reduce in real value in the future.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

When this newest booth auction ends, I'm fairly certain no new booth user enters the fray to compete with prices. Again.

By the way, this was booth situation at the time of that screenshot, in case anyone wants to see if my prediction holds.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login



TL;DR Gold is just plain worth less and less.


There are some things that could be done to remedy this situation:
 - Fix strat so the XP and gold gain balance is restored somewhat. (You only get XP from strat, no gold.)
 - Remove booths to even the market and add more competition to prices.  (This removes a small goldsink but it would also remove a factor that is depressing the market, a big net positive.)
 - Add more vanity gold sinks like the titles.
 - Tweak the tax.
 - Think up new things to do with gold.
And some more painful options:
 - Reduce gold gain.
 - Greatly increase upkeep.

I really liked the stuff you pointed out, except the following:

In my opinion, booths are in part guilty in killing the market as it allows a few privileged actors with enough capital to set prices as they wish. And we've had two actors buying up all the booths for some months now.

Me and Pony have like no influence on Loompoint prices, since both of us barely ever put up offers to buy/sell them.

And they aren't selling any of their loompoints

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

You can't read, can you?

but they are too using them as a currency to buy up +3 items instead, with 2 LP + gold trades, almost exclusively

As far as i know almost everyone does this (and its pretty much always been like this).

[Rhekimos]

Me and Pony have like no influence on Loompoint prices, since both of us barely ever put up offers to buy/sell them.

I wasn't saying that you personally have been influencing loompoint prices, not significantly, and not directly by trading loompoints. If you read carefully, I said that a booth user could influence loomprices much more than an ordinary seller. And essentially dominate the loompoint market. Which has happened most of the time whenever a booth user has really involved themselves in the loompoint trade.

My point against the booths was and is that they are by nature very anti-competitive. You know, exactly the kind of thing that governments IRL try to discourage because it kills real economies too. And when the economy suffers, so suffers the usefulness of the dollar/euro/gold.
It has been like this since booths were first introduced and I raised the same general points about how they will be bad for the market overall way back then as well.

They are a structure that weakens the market by their very existence.

You can't read, can you?

I'm not saying that you are evil for holding onto your loompoints and using them to trade as you wish, that's only your right. They are yours.
Or only offering private trades and not influencing the loompoint trade by competing with prices.
I don't even know how much you do that, since I don't see it happening. But you yourself said you barely do it.

If the devs added a rentable 40 pierce katana to the game, it would be everyone's right to use such an item. My point is that it might not be very good for the game to add something like that in the first place.

And the booths are a competition skullcrusher +3.
 

As far as i know almost everyone does this (and its pretty much always been like this).

As for trading 2 LP + gold to items, I meant to say that it's the smart thing to do. Not a bad thing for the economy either, as there's at least something moving in the market. And I used it as an example of how gold is less useful as a currency, than loompoints, as indicated by people preferring to trade with loompoints instead. Including you two, who don't even need to pay tax on gold trades.

[AwesomeHail]

Zeltino has been giving the best trades on the market, some good stuff for 2lps and 119k, wich is way lower than any looms now. He has been downing the price of looms more than he is making it higher

[Rhekimos]

Zeltino has been giving the best trades on the market, some good stuff for 2lps and 119k, wich is way lower than any looms now. He has been downing the price of looms more than he is making it higher

Look, I'm not saying that Zeltino is a bad guy. I'm saying that the market booths were a bad idea from the very beginning.

If he's being a nice guy and trading fair, all the more respect to him.