What has dueling come to?

[PoisonedTail]

In duels, it seems like all everyone does anymore is max their sensitivity, grab a fast weapon, and spas their head around really fast attacking only after faking 8 times. I know this has happened in the past, but currently it has gone out of control. I know I can't be the only one annoyed by this. Crpg more like stroke simulator 2015

[Kalam]

Sounds like 2010, bro. Only thing missing is naked people.

I will say, on NA it's still balanced builds in the lead. And none of this is as spazzy as Native.

If you're going to cry, have a hanky.

[Espwn]

Sounds like 2010, bro. Only thing missing is naked people.

I will say, on NA it's still balanced builds in the lead. And none of this is as spazzy as Native.

If you're going to cry, have a hanky.

For some odd reason, I'm mildly aroused.

[Richter]

In duels, it seems like all everyone does anymore is max their sensitivity, grab a fast weapon, and spas their head around really fast attacking only after faking 8 times. I know this has happened in the past, but currently it has gone out of control. I know I can't be the only one annoyed by this. Crpg more like stroke simulator 2015

Doubleswing.

[Dionysus]

Maybe I just understand the game a lot better now, so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it just feel like players are "forcing" other players with shorter weapons to swing, S-keying their attack with mad agi, then hitting their defenseless opponent? Has this always been a thing, or is this a result of everyone being able to have ridiculous amounts of athletics?

[Rando]

Maybe I just understand the game a lot better now, so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it just feel like players are "forcing" other players with shorter weapons to swing, S-keying their attack with mad agi, then hitting their defenseless opponent? Has this always been a thing, or is this a result of everyone being able to have ridiculous amounts of athletics?

I know exactly what you mean, it's pretty much what agi-whores will do these days. They'll make you feel outranged when you're using a greatsword and they have a katana.

[Jona]

Maybe I just understand the game a lot better now, so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it just feel like players are "forcing" other players with shorter weapons to swing, S-keying their attack with mad agi, then hitting their defenseless opponent?

I noticed this as well, and I fear it is due to an increase in athletics across the board. I won't deny that I end up S-keying more often than I'd like, although I try not to, and if anything I swap between W and S key frequently to try and play the range game. S-keying is a surefire way to win at this game, so plenty of people (skilled or not) end up falling back on it from time to time. Playing the range game is, well, fair game, but it becomes almost addicting to simply S-key all the time instead of swapping between W and S because if you've got the longer weapon you're invincible so long as you can backup fast enough. The main issue with this is that S-keying is merely too fast. If I am using my long axe or a comparable short polearm, I've got less reach than plenty of 1handers who they can easily S-key me for days. Couple that in with the fact that my weapon weighs more and is statistically longer (so I've got a larger speed reduction than them) and it takes far too long for me, an agi build, to catch someone that has less athletics than I do while they run backwards. When you used your flamberge (str?) build, it would take me a while to close the gap when you S-keyed, which is ample time to get maybe 3 free swings on me. Not to mention that luring your opponent in only allows you to land kicks more easily and more often, which quickly teaches them to mind their distance (which is quite difficult with a short(er) weapon). Basically, S-key while agi-stacking with a long weapon, and you win crpg. I would say that a downright nerf to S-keying speed would be great, but that would only lead to far more people turning tail and running away a la Jayjrod style until they get into an ideal position. At least if they are S-keying and "fighting" then you as the aggressor have the ability (or at least the illusion) of being able to kill them.

I know exactly what you mean, it's pretty much what agi-whores will do these days. They'll make you feel outranged when you're using a greatsword and they have a katana.

Yeah, I've been 'outranged' by super-agiwhores using nothing but a little toothpick for a 1hander while I rightswing with something like my naginata. It gets old real fast since both them and their weapon move at lightspeed and I've got a 1-frame-long input window in which to block successfully. This is the problem with having build diversity in crpg, you aren't facing "skilled" players so much as you're facing people with builds that better suit the scenario (i.e. agiwhores for dueling, str builds for ganks/clusterfucks). The best way to put an end to this, in NA1 at least, would be to stick together as a team, similar to how EU still tends to play. This style has always favored str builds and it makes agi builds nothing but pesky mosquitos buzzing about the outside of your massive steamroll engine. Let the kiters retreat and delay, that's what flags are for.

[Rando]

I noticed this as well, and I fear it is due to an increase in athletics across the board. I won't deny that I end up S-keying more often than I'd like, although I try not to, and if anything I swap between W and S key frequently to try and play the range game. S-keying is a surefire way to win at this game, so plenty of people (skilled or not) end up falling back on it from time to time. Playing the range game is, well, fair game, but it becomes almost addicting to simply S-key all the time instead of swapping between W and S because if you've got the longer weapon you're invincible so long as you can backup fast enough. The main issue with this is that S-keying is merely too fast. If I am using my long axe or a comparable short polearm, I've got less reach than plenty of 1handers who they can easily S-key me for days. Couple that in with the fact that my weapon weighs more and is statistically longer (so I've got a larger speed reduction than them) and it takes far too long for me, an agi build, to catch someone that has less athletics than I do while they run backwards. When you used your flamberge (str?) build, it would take me a while to close the gap when you S-keyed, which is ample time to get maybe 3 free swings on me. Not to mention that luring your opponent in only allows you to land kicks more easily and more often, which quickly teaches them to mind their distance (which is quite difficult with a short(er) weapon). Basically, S-key while agi-stacking with a long weapon, and you win crpg. I would say that a downright nerf to S-keying speed would be great, but that would only lead to far more people turning tail and running away a la Jayjrod style until they get into an ideal position. At least if they are S-keying and "fighting" then you as the aggressor have the ability (or at least the illusion) of being able to kill them.

Yeah, I've been 'outranged' by super-agiwhores using nothing but a little toothpick for a 1hander while I rightswing with something like my naginata. It gets old real fast since both them and their weapon move at lightspeed and I've got a 1-frame-long input window in which to block successfully. This is the problem with having build diversity in crpg, you aren't facing "skilled" players so much as you're facing people with builds that better suit the scenario (i.e. agiwhores for dueling, str builds for ganks/clusterfucks). The best way to put an end to this, in NA1 at least, would be to stick together as a team, similar to how EU still tends to play. This style has always favored str builds and it makes agi builds nothing but pesky mosquitos buzzing about the outside of your massive steamroll engine. Let the kiters retreat and delay, that's what flags are for.

You make a good point, but unfortunately the hivemind (at least in NA) won't take your advice.

[Legs]

An easy way to beat S key heroes is just to not chase them. If they flutter around the edge of your range alternating S/W start hitting S and do the same shit they are going back and forth. Just holding W is playing into their bullshit and giving them the advantage.

[Arthur_]

Feinting is for scrubs, real man chamber.

[Grumbs]

Destiny patch was a step back for melee imo. I don't really enjoy it like I did before, its a bit too fast to me rather than deliberate and thoughtful. Like comparing Quake 3 to CS or something.

[Gravoth_iii]

It needs to be fast otherwise it will be a game of nothing but patience. It already is tbh.

[LEKIS]

I'm a man of patience.
I let whomever I fight spas around, I figure them out and I take them down (ofcourse it doesn't work all the time but mostly).

Patience trumps all.

[Dionysus]

I noticed this as well, and I fear it is due to an increase in athletics across the board.

This is the biggest problem, and it is the result of us playing builds that should otherwise be unattainable. This whole level 35 business is ridiculous. I understand that you and a few other players in the community went well past level 31 before the Destiny patch, but that was a big problem that I think was really poorly addressed. Instead of bringing everyone up to those levels, they should have knocked everyone down. There should have been a level cap put at 33, a level I think is worth going for to have an advantage while not being incredibly unbalanced.

Instead, we now have more points than we know what to do with. The balanced build is 21/21, which means sacrificing points for more agility keeps you well above the the average difficulty required for long weapons, and players are swinging at speeds that, at least in my personal opinion, the game engine can't even handle. There are instances where cRPG can't keep up with how fast players are moving. Have you ever had a player walk through you in the middle of a fight? He very likely just walked around you on his screen.

An easy way to beat S key heroes is just to not chase them. If they flutter around the edge of your range alternating S/W start hitting S and do the same shit they are going back and forth. Just holding W is playing into their bullshit and giving them the advantage.

Yes, I agree that's how you should deal with someone backpedaling from a fight. The problem we're talking about is a different one. What we're saying is that players have the athletics to move away from swings they would otherwise be in reach of before players had this much access to faster builds. I'm not saying people didn't agi-whore before the Destiny patch, but when they did, they significantly sacrificed their ability to do damage. Now players can do a reasonable amount of damage and move incredibly fast with weapons they shouldn't even have access to.

I would also recommend for a reduction of weapon proficiency. There were some patches by Tydeus in 2013 that played with how much weapon proficiency we get from Weapon Master that should be looked into. I really like the idea of one WPF helping another (between the three melee skills), but I don't like how the average player has something around 170 WPF.

If you want this game to play faster, maybe look at the Combat Speed that is still set to Medium. Giving players the ability to run at Mach 5 is really problematic for the actual functionality of the melee.

[the real god emperor]

Normal gameplay tactics are not useful anymore since everyone will block every hit you swing. So you have to do something unique or unpopular to take advantage.