I side with.com who do you side wth for the elections

[Grytviken]

I did not think any American with access to the internet would be able to say this with a straight face, are you trolling?

In any case, I am just ridiculing your arguments, not your conclusion. I would never deny that Europe's glory age is over since World War II. Even though there are about half a dozen European countries which I consider more developed than the US, the US is a pretty damn great place to live and obviously the most powerful country in the world. Still, I'd say American domestic and international politics are nationalistic and dogmatic to an extent that seems comical and old-fashioned to me as a Dutch guy.

What is nationalistic and dogmatic about giving 50 billion dollars a year to 3rd world countries in free aid and infrastructure? If Europeans think they have immigration problems now wait till we get a President who finally decides to shut that switch off.

[Teeth]

Oh yeah, development aid, as you seem so determined to have an EU versus US cockfight for so many posts now, I'll indulge myself and tell you that development aid is one area where the EU does actually soundly beat the US. The United States is rather stingy for a while now.

Development aid in 2013:
European Union – $86.66 billion
United States – $31.55 billion

[Oberyn]

Still, I'd say American domestic and international politics are nationalistic and dogmatic to an extent that seems comical and old-fashioned to me as a Dutch guy.

Compared to what? The cultural backlash from the destruction wrought by both WW1 and 2 and the subsequent complete abdication of any sort of historical or ethnic pride is the anomaly, the norm is nationalistic and dogmatic tribal identification the world over. Western Europe is a dying civilization, the tribal identities where there is this passion, no matter how illogical or ethnocentric or even fabricated from wholecloth, are the ones that are going to survive. One way or another the european continent is going to go back to this basic paragdim of civilization. Ideally it goes off as the multicultural utopians hope and a new unified ethnicity emerges after a few generations or melting pot, informed by past european values while also incorporating the elements of incoming cultures, but that is so much fairy dust in the wind as far as I'm concerned. The american melting pot was not a kind and "tolerant" process by any modern understanding. Even today I believe the uncompromising american national pride is partly the reasons why immigrants integrate much faster. It's certainly not anything to do with racial tolerance being somehow more common in the US, that's for sure.

[Lt_Anders]

Oh yeah, development aid, as you seem so determined to have an EU versus US cockfight for so many posts now, I'll indulge myself and tell you that development aid is one area where the EU does actually soundly beat the US. The United States is rather stingy for a while now.

Development aid in 2013:
European Union – $86.66 billion
United States – $31.55 billion

Governement Aid.

US spends way more in Private aid.

Also:
http://www.globalissues.org/print/article/35

[Grytviken]

Compared to what? The cultural backlash from the destruction wrought by both WW1 and 2 and the subsequent complete abdication of any sort of historical or ethnic pride is the anomaly, the norm is nationalistic and dogmatic tribal identification the world over. Western Europe is a dying civilization, the tribal identities where there is this passion, no matter how illogical or ethnocentric or even fabricated from wholecloth, are the ones that are going to survive. One way or another the european continent is going to go back to this basic paragdim of civilization. Ideally it goes off as the multicultural utopians hope and a new unified ethnicity emerges after a few generations or melting pot, informed by past european values while also incorporating the elements of incoming cultures, but that is so much fairy dust in the wind as far as I'm concerned. The american melting pot was not a kind and "tolerant" process by any modern understanding. Even today I believe the uncompromising american national pride is partly the reasons why immigrants integrate much faster. It's certainly not anything to do with racial tolerance being somehow more common in the US, that's for sure.

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[Smoothrich]

I did not think any American with access to the internet would be able to say this with a straight face, are you trolling?

In any case, I am just ridiculing your arguments, not your conclusion. I would never deny that Europe's glory age is over since World War II. Even though there are about half a dozen European countries which I consider more developed than the US, the US is a pretty damn great place to live and obviously the most powerful country in the world. Still, I'd say American domestic and international politics are nationalistic and dogmatic to an extent that seems comical and old-fashioned to me as a Dutch guy.

Teeth, that is because the United States is literally the size, population, and economy of Europe. Well, Europe has more people but that is just a byproduct of more cities. The Mid-Atlantic region is like a combination of British, Dutch, and Italian city-states like Venice on crack in its culture, cuisine and economy. After all, NYC was literally founded as New Amsterdam before the British took it over and named it after some jerk-off. No surprise it was their main base of operations for the Revolutionary War either.. thousands of Americans actually died floating in prison ships in its harbor during the war, a great war crime that no one cares about lol. Most of our country exists to feed or provide energy for the coasts and a few other regions, which are full of world-class cities. It is no one's fault that the simple folk who mine coal or harvest grain like to go home after a long hard day's of Real American work and laugh at Trump ripping on Mexicans, but they are one of the reasons our nation is so hilariously strong in the first place.

Here in Minnesota it is practically a Scandinavian state. Minnesota is consistently ranked as number 1 of the states lately in all measures like healthcare, employment, education etc and there is a universal healthcare system and generous social safety net, along with an increasing hostility to Somalian Muslim immigrants seen as flooding the state to take advantage of it.. funny enough almost all the American citizen ISIS fighters are from Minnesota.. I'm pretty sure I can join ISIS if I wanted to by talking to my neighbors. Once again this is no surprise because the state is full of German and Nordic immigrants, it was settled by them and people from Norway, Sweden, Germany etc tend to immigrate here still if they come to America.

Another thing you EU swine misunderstand about Americans is that since almost all of us are only a couple generations at most removed from European immigrants, we are usually raised in multicultural, even bilingual households and have distant family members in Europe that give many of us an excuse to visit and see our "roots" if not necessarily our heritage. Nowadays all of you EU fuckers are so anti-American while sucking on your government's teats till the budgets are dry instead of promoting immigration or innovation, it is South Americans that are immigrating to America instead and enjoying the American dream, in the most diverse, prosperous and tolerant nation on Earth.

Normalizing relations with Cuba is proof that America is not stuck in some Cold War mentality, even though I feel bad for the Cubans that wish they had a choice in government.. I am sure some of them would VOTE for Castro's Communist Party if they had the choice, but people who disagree have been forced to flee to America or get killed. This is how how Ted Cruz's father came to America actually, and Ted Cruz is not some extremist when it comes to your average Cuban-American lol, they are all like that. How are you not going to love America, Democracy, Freedom and our Constitution which provides the legal framework for all of this to thrive, when the alternatives are so shitty?

As the 21st century goes on, Europe is going to need to adapt in order to remain competitive. I don't see why it isn't common sense for the EU to be disbanded and vote to join our federation instead of these United States and adopt the USD instead of the Euro. Though of course France, Spain, Greece, Ireland, Germans who are still secretly naz1s (most of them), Bulgarians, Croatians, Estonians, most Italians, Romanians, Slovakians, and Slovenians would not be invited lmao, its obvious they are shit nations and I kinda feel bad you pretended that wasnt a fact at the start of the Eurozone which was a noble American-esque experiment, but nowadays a hilarious failure

[Smoothrich]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_Ship_Martyrs%27_Monument

"The Prison Ship Martyrs' Monument in Fort Greene Park, in the New York City borough of Brooklyn, is a memorial to the more than 11,500 American prisoners of war who died in captivity aboard sixteen British prison ships during the American Revolutionary War. The remains of a small fraction of those who died on the ships are interred in a crypt beneath its base. The ships included the HMS Jersey, the Scorpion, the Hope, the Falmouth, the Stromboli, Hunter, and others."

FUck the British, USA never forgets

[Oberyn]

Anyone else tired of listening to this retarded fat slob's historical revisionism?

"Those who come hither are generally of the most ignorant Stupid Sort of their own Nation…and as few of the English understand the German Language, and so cannot address them either from the Press or Pulpit, ’tis almost impossible to remove any prejudices they once entertain…Not being used to Liberty, they know not how to make a modest use of it…I remember when they modestly declined intermeddling in our Elections, but now they come in droves, and carry all before them, except in one or two Counties...In short unless the stream of their importation could be turned from this to other colonies, as you very judiciously propose, they will soon so out number us, that all the advantages we have will not in My Opinion be able to preserve our language, and even our Government will become precarious." Ben Franklin

"Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the   English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as   to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our   Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion.

24. Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely   white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is   black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new   Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians,   French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call   a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only   excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People   on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased. And while   we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing   America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a   brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in Mars or Venus, why should   we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of   Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an   Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely   White and Red? But perhaps I am partial to the Complexion of my Country, for   such Kind of Partiality is natural to Mankind." Ben Franklin

Yeah you stupid ridiculous cunt, look at all that multicultural tolerance and understanding. American melting pot wasn't due to incredibly aggressive monocultural and racial supremacist imposition from the top down, it was totally about 1960's style hippy bullshit. You're either dishonest, ignorant or a brainwashed moron. Which euro immigrants are still speaking their original tongues? Germans and scandinavians and irish and italians, where are the "bilinguals", you lying piece of shit?

[Teeth]

Compared to what? The cultural backlash from the destruction wrought by both WW1 and 2 and the subsequent complete abdication of any sort of historical or ethnic pride is the anomaly, the norm is nationalistic and dogmatic tribal identification the world over. Western Europe is a dying civilization, the tribal identities where there is this passion, no matter how illogical or ethnocentric or even fabricated from wholecloth, are the ones that are going to survive. One way or another the european continent is going to go back to this basic paragdim of civilization. Ideally it goes off as the multicultural utopians hope and a new unified ethnicity emerges after a few generations or melting pot, informed by past european values while also incorporating the elements of incoming cultures, but that is so much fairy dust in the wind as far as I'm concerned. The american melting pot was not a kind and "tolerant" process by any modern understanding. Even today I believe the uncompromising american national pride is partly the reasons why immigrants integrate much faster. It's certainly not anything to do with racial tolerance being somehow more common in the US, that's for sure.

I don't see how the rise of the US, the rise of China and the lack of rise or relative decline of Europe can be attributed to a nationalistic pride or a lack thereof. I would also say that Western Europe is doing quite alright despite its weak identity. I just find that dogmatism and appeals to nationalism get in the way of pragmatism in US policy-making. But yeah, Europe's self-hate and tendency to describe any critique of Islam and immigration as racist gets in the way of pragmatism too. Still, the US is so far on the other side of the spectrum that half the rhetoric sounds like populist babble to me.

[Oberyn]

I don't see how the rise of the US, the rise of China and the lack of rise or relative decline of Europe can be attributed to a nationalistic pride or a lack thereof. I would also say that Western Europe is doing quite alright despite its weak identity. I just find that dogmatism and appeals to nationalism get in the way of pragmatism in US policy-making. But yeah, Europe's self-hate and tendency to describe any critique of Islam and immigration as racist gets in the way of pragmatism too. Still, the US is so far on the other side of the spectrum that half the rhetoric sounds like populist babble to me.

If you think US rhetoric is "populist babble" and directly opposed ideologically and in values to european nations, you are obviously not familiar with LITERALLY any other nation or culture on the planet. I'm sorry to inform you that the planet =/= the "western" world. Please open your eyes to what every other fucking human collective on the planet is like.

[Smoothrich]

That was a long time ago Oberyn. However, both my recently deceased grandfathers were killing Vichy Frenchmen all over Europe only 70 years ago. Vichy France were proud collaborators with the Third Reich and H1tler's domestic and foreign policies of war and extermination, fought all over the world as a primary member of the Axis, and enthusiastically rounded up all of its Jews to be sent to my grandfather's nation of Poland to die in places like Auschwitz, which were probably staffed by many French SS guardsmen.

France pretends that was ever a post-Enlightenment nation that celebrated liberty, freedom, and democracy, when in reality the French Revolution was just an excuse for Emperor Napoleon to try to conquer all of Europe as a ruthless tyrant, like every other Germanic barbarian warlord in its short unillustrious history as being the "shitty half" of the Carolingian Empire, as the 20th century has proven time and time again. How many people have died within France or its colonies in the past 100 years alone because of the fact that it is an imperialistic war-mongering nation that has been incapable of winning a modern-war? Must be hundreds of millions lol

[Oberyn]

I'd like to think you are trolling, but sadly it seems you really are this fucking dumb. "That was a long time ago", if by long you mean less than a hundred years, which given the average american's understanding of history is indeed "a long time". The US was up there with Germany in the racial eugenics, but I'm sure that's buried deep between a ton of self-justifying shit in what I'll charitably call your historical "perspective", although that is giving your ramblings too much credit by far.

[Oberyn]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/33rd_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_Charlemagne_(1st_French)

French SS:  From estimates of 7,400 to 11,000 at its peak in 1944,[2] the strength of the division fell to just sixty men in May 1945.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_France

Free French: On 1 August 1943, L'Armée d'Afrique was formally united with the Free French Forces to form L'Armée française de la Liberation. By mid-1944, the forces of this army numbered more than 400,000, and they participated in the Normandy landings and the invasion of southern France, eventually leading the drive on Paris. Soon they were fighting in Alsace, the Alps and Brittany, and by the end of the war in Europe, they were 1,300,000 strong – the fourth-largest Allied army in Europe – and took part in the Allied advance through France and invasion of Germany. The Free French government re-established a provisional republic after the liberation, preparing the ground for the Fourth Republic in 1946.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_France

Casualties Battle of France french side:

360,000 dead or wounded,
1,900,000 captured
2,233 aircraft lost[11]

Total: 360,000 casualties

Please shut the fuck up, you stupid piece of shit. Your grandfathers's glorious country was much more filled with collaborators willingly killing and hunting down jews than practically any other european country under chocolate chip cookie rule, why not shit all over the poles? Oh right, they had this little thing called the chocolate chip cookie army occupying them, I'm sure that wasn't a factor at all. Frankly hearing some fat piece of shit talking about war and combat is kind of hilarious to me. If your fat ass was occupied by the chocolate chip cookies you would bend your ass over to get fucked if it meant there was a twinkie in it for you, you sorry excuse for a man. Can you even walk a few blocks without collapsing in a pile of sweaty flesh?

[Smoothrich]

I think the main problem with France is that it has never apologized for its war crimes like Germany has, and misunderstands its history. The moment the pretense was lifted and people stopped pretending that the French Revolution was ever actually successful , you guys turned into ultra-right wing extremists who preferred to be ruled by a tyrant than democracy in a heartbeat. The French contribution to the Holocaust is seriously disgusting and never talked about, which I think is a travesty and explains a lot about French attitudes today.

Here, from Wikipedia, maybe you'll learn something you almost definitely did not learn in a French classroom.

Ideology
Vichy sought an anti-modern counter-revolution. The Right in France, with strength in the aristocracy and among Catholics, had never accepted the republican traditions of the French Revolution. It demanded a return to traditional lines of culture and religion and embraced authoritarianism, while dismissing democracy. The Communist element, strongest in labour unions, turned against Vichy in June 1941, when Germany invaded the Soviet Union. Vichy was intensely anti-Communist and generally pro-Naz1; Payne finds that it, "was distinctly rightist and authoritarian but never fascist. Paxton analyzes the entire range of Vichy supporters, from reactionaries to moderate liberal modernizers, and concludes that genuine fascist elements had but minor roles in most sectors.

The Vichy government tried to assert its legitimacy by symbolically connecting itself to the Gallo-Roman period of France's history, and celebrated the Gaul chieftain Vercingetorix as the "founder" of the nation. It was asserted that just as the defeat of the Gauls in the Battle of Alesia had been the moment in French history when a sense of common nationhood was born, the defeat of 1940 would again unify the nation. The Vichy government's "Francisque" insignia featured two symbols from the Gallic period: the baton and the double-headed hatchet (labrys) arranged so as to resemble the fasces, symbol of the Italian Fascists.

Lmao, I didn't even realize you guys literally started celebrating the barbarians of your past. I've been almost trolling with that angle, but look at that. Your nation's propaganda was using fucking Vercingetorix, the Gallic chief who Julius Caeser publically executed to celebrate his own triumph for waging a treacherous war against the Republic of Rome. How incriminating to your national psyche, always betraying itself as the opposite of everything Greece, Rome, and America stood or continues to stand for in our values, even if at America's founding it was more in theory than in practice. However, Abraham Lincoln made it much more real.

[Oberyn]

I think the main problem with France is that it has never apologized for its war crimes like Germany has The French contribution to the Holocaust is seriously disgusting and never talked about.

Annnnd more retarded historical revisionism, although this is regarding the present so it's even more retarded. Please stop opening your mouth to speak on subjects you are so deeply, deeply ignorant of.