Author Topic: State of throwing  (Read 3650 times)

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Offline Kenda

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Re: State of throwing
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2015, 12:41:14 pm »
0
Imo nerf the damage a Little maybe, to me accuracy isnt a problem. The main problem to me is the whole mechanical idea of throwers, the ability to switch to melee mode and instantly stab and then just keep running away whilst throwing, combined with melee mode being way too strong for a throwing weapon. Dno why accuracy should be touched, its not the problem, the accuracy is already bad for throwers.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 12:48:54 pm by Kenda »
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Offline Mr_Oujamaflip

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Re: State of throwing
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2015, 01:05:44 pm »
0
I don't think its as low accuracy as you'd think. I get hit by throwers a lot more regularly than the low accuracy would have you think. It could be a rate of fire thing, more shots fired means more likely to hit what you're aiming at.

Another issue is throwers get stronger the more throwers there are as ammo becomes a non-issue.

Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: State of throwing
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2015, 01:09:02 pm »
0
throwers top scoreboards shitloads of the time, u fuckface

Zero_sat is the only one i see do it consistently. The only thing they can contribute the most through is killing cav, which is good score and helpful. Killing infantry with lances gives you maybe 3 kills tops, purely from throwing. More some times if you headshot or finish them off. Not enough for valour even.
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Offline Kenda

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Re: State of throwing
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2015, 01:58:20 pm »
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I dno where you get these stats from Gravoth, throwers can have a huge impact as can any class, it's the way they impact the game thats the problem.

Well try playing thrower and testing the accuracy for yourself, it's at a good state imo, should you make the direction of the throw even more randomized than it already is? What will that accomplish, an even more broken aiming system for throwers aswell as more teamhiting.

Modifying the mechanics of the class aswell as reducing the damage a Little should be enough. I don't want to destroy the class just make it less retarded.
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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: State of throwing
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2015, 02:08:24 pm »
0
I dno where you get these stats from Gravoth, throwers can have a huge impact as can any class, it's the way they impact the game thats the problem.

Well try playing thrower and testing the accuracy for yourself, it's at a good state imo, should you make the direction of the throw even more randomized than it already is? What will that accomplish, an even more broken aiming system for throwers aswell as more teamhiting.

From own experience and watching others. I might respecc to it again to see if it changes my opinion. Its a ton of fun being a thrower because its a cunt ranged class but way more active and fast paced than the other 2. It would be sad if it was changed to be shit tier. Best part is killing cav so effectively because fuck cav, how are people not complaining about how strong they are? Hell, even rufio manages 4-5 kd's as cav in peasant clothing. EVEN RUFIO.
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Offline Kenda

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Re: State of throwing
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2015, 03:44:30 pm »
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Cav is strong, but playing well counters cav, having good awareness and blocking or chambering their attacks. Whilst throwing forces you to hide all round and pray to god that you dont meet a thrower around the corner and avoid any fight where a thrower is present. No part of the outcome is reflected on how good you are.
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Offline BlindGuy

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Re: State of throwing
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2015, 04:32:59 pm »
+3
Well, I sold all my throwing weapons cause of how abusive it is. Honestly, it's not fair, it's just bullshit. Same as all my arrows and bows and crossbows and bolts. But that's personal. This isn't a forgiving game for melee at all so I completely understand ppl want a nice relaxing time shooting ppl. Out of all of ranged, over many years of playing them, I reckon throwing is most fun, because of how forgiving it is. I've played from 15/30 to 30/15 and the balanced was the least fun, either extreme being very fun.

But to nerf their ranged abilities would make them shit.

So do logical thing: nerf their melee capabilities. And by "their" I only real mean ONE weapon that is extreme example: Throwing lance. Its huge, so I'm ok with the damage. Maybe even buff the dmg and reduce stack size again? But as a RANGED weapon it seems ok-ish. Strong, but it's top tier so fair enough.

But then: Usable with shield. Horse stopping. Polearm nudge. Extreme Speed. Decent damage. Extreme weight. On a ranged weapon. We all want cake, but you can't have it, and eat it too.

PS. Most lance throwers are going to have pretty hefty PowerThrow because of how low their ammo count is, so then combine 10 PT with 16 zero slot throwing knives gives them so much shit to throw, OR use that 30 STR and a 0 slot mace to knock ppl for shit, they just have SO much.
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Offline AwesomeHail

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Re: State of throwing
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2015, 04:52:14 pm »
0
Wrong! Archers are the tankier ones these days as high PD is favourable therefore more strength, this also makes them fairly average on speed. Crossbowmen on the other hand get like 10 athletics as they need no more than 18 strength for an arbalest.

Otherwise, I agree!

well, if you have a high PD build you cant really run/dodge if you wear heavier armour. I wear light armour/medium armour and its not as tanky as you think, plus IF is not really chosen much on archers, as they will invest it in higher PS or PD
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Offline BlackxBird

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Re: State of throwing
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2015, 05:13:27 pm »
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Throwing lances shouldn't be sheatable.

Totally ridiculous to have 6 throwing lances on yourself without having some in the hand.

And the weight.

there is no real polearm weapon you can compare that shit with, but just imagine having 6 of them on you.

6?! One of them has a weight of 2- 2,5 (at least in RL).

So I think making them unsheatable and giving them more weight would give us melee the chance of killing them

It's ridiculous when there is a retard having 6 lances and tons of daggers with him running away from you even though he has 30 str.

Reduce their speed.

only the speed makes them untouchable for everyone.

Offline Casul

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Re: State of throwing
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2015, 05:53:53 pm »
0
Last time on EU1, Rest in Piece was the only one who reached 2nd topscore (50 ppl)
I only see Fin topping scoreboard regulary, and I guess there is always an exception for every class :?

The only problem I have is, when Rip turns on his aimbot macros and places some throwing lances in my head

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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: State of throwing
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2015, 08:40:18 pm »
-1
Cav is strong, but playing well counters cav, having good awareness and blocking or chambering their attacks. Whilst throwing forces you to hide all round and pray to god that you dont meet a thrower around the corner and avoid any fight where a thrower is present. No part of the outcome is reflected on how good you are.

You can be aware of them, and have proper positioning, have a build with shieldskill and decent agi. All this helps to not get shrekt by throwers, but since the general strategy is charging instantly, or staying in cover then when enemies get close, charge out of it, you are bound to get hit a lot by ranged. Im usually pretty safe from most ranged, and if i see them i will try to put something in between me and them, player or wall or ostacle, anything to prevent them. Always keep a third eye on them, if they start throwing then find some sort of cover, if they target you then dance.

There are strategies to avoid them, they might not be too obvious and easily overlooked, but they are there. Also shield is key, agi shield even more so.
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Offline Leshma

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Re: State of throwing
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2015, 10:53:31 pm »
+2
Last time on EU1, Rest in Piece was the only one who reached 2nd topscore (50 ppl)
I only see Fin topping scoreboard regulary, and I guess there is always an exception for every class :?

The only problem I have is, when Rip turns on his aimbot macros and places some throwing lances in my head

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Do as I did, teamkill dat bastard. If you have time, teamkill his buddy too. And enjoy long ban and beautiful life away from cRPG :mrgreen:

Offline Casul

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Re: State of throwing
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2015, 11:35:16 pm »
0
Do as I did, teamkill dat bastard. If you have time, teamkill his buddy too. And enjoy long ban and beautiful life away from cRPG :mrgreen:

meeh :/  They are my buddies...

I love them ...
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Offline dontgothere

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Re: State of throwing
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2015, 06:41:58 am »
-1
fuck all this qq. tl;dr - you are whining because you haven't learned to dodge and you forgot there are much bigger balance problems in this mod than just throwing. let throwing builds keep what they do but only if it requires a little more speccing so the hybrids will be less melee capable, take weaker shields, etc.
been over this so many times before and nothing ever accomplished.

i'm a level 37 pure thrower and i've played the class since crpg's website was just a black and white placeholder. get EIGHT broad throwing axes and it takes 2-4 to kill someone.  throwing lances are 2-4 also unless lucky.  if i dont just go after wounded, or peasants, or get headshots, i'm out of ammo and dead meat within the first minute of the game.  i can downgrade to higher ammo count but those are weaker against decent armor and shields.

dont even joke about taking away jump throw or stagger. they're the only things making a pure throwing build much fun, they were taken out years ago and it didn't help anything.

throwing needs nothing but buffs until my MW jarids with 12 PT one-shot on headshots.  as it is they only do it 1/2 of the time.  fuck i've had TONS of headshots of two handed throwing axes and throwing lances fail to one shot. if our best equip doesn't headshot any better than a tier 1 bow and we get 12 ammo max before we're dead meat, there's nothing to complain about.

throwing has been the most consistently nerfed equip of this whole mod.  you don't need a shield or a horse, just learn to dodge and their ammo is out fast. the only reason you're getting killed so much by throwing and it tops the charts so much is because bows and xbows aren't worth the points to spec into because their mechanics are nerfed to hell.  don't fuck with throwing until you get archery in shape for good.  instead of continuing the trend in crpg of fucking over diversity, killing alternative or interesting builds for the sake of 2h master race like you want to do to throwing, just rethink balance overall. it all started going downhill when they slowed spin slashes.

scoreboard toppers pick throwing because other ranged is shit now and too hard to transition into melee. last patch made lots of archers quit because the game is devolving into 2h/pole wars.  balance was better three or four years ago.

at the MOST, if there's a nerf to throwing, it should be to require more PT to get the kind of accuracy it has now. so the low PT weapons should all function about the same but the higher ones would be less viable at a distance until you have a PT higher than the required amount and get that bonus, THEN they should work as they do presently. that way you've got to spec for it more and aren't going to be a multiclass hybrid bastard.

prune the damn branches before you decide to cut down the whole tree.  throwing is going to get wrekt because the mod is headed for melee blah anyway, but the ideal balance is to arrange it into a few tiers that play differently based upon your PT.  people with 6 PT who take throwing lances, for example, shouldn't expect to hit anything unless it's close.  but I have double that, at 12 PT.  as a result i have 0 PS and 0 IF, and i play without any armor. so why fuck me up?  let me throw my damn throws.

throwing hammers are STILL useless.  every single weapon in throwing needs to be rethought in light of how it is used by three different classes of thrower:  those who just make the req, those with a typical hybrid build, and pure throwers.  making the req should be enough for anyone to throw stars a short range, but it should take a full throwing build to do star-vs-bow duels like happens now. likewise making req for two-handed axes or lances should be enough for you to land a shot at 3 or 4 times melee distance, but they shouldn't become true "range" weapons until you've exceeded the requirement.  all about considering what a build should have to 'give up' to use throwing as a ranged class instead of as a point dump for meleers who cant stand bows or xbows...
« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 06:47:20 am by dontgothere »

Offline Nightingale

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Re: State of throwing
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2015, 07:43:05 am »
+2
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I like some of the points you bring up; but you do have some flaws

(1) you assume everyone is whining here and using a 2h/polearm
I've been a pure build xbow since you started playing this game and you are right the mechanics behind it are all flawed to hell to the point where the class is barely usable in NA 1. Most of the time using my +3 Arbalest with +3 Steel bolts I have to shoot people 2-4 times which matches your requirement but there is a problem. You do not have to reload at all; and You can't complain about low ammo? I only have 10 bolts and you have 12 Jarids... You can pick up your jarids and instantly use them where as if I have to scavange for bolts I have to wait 11 seconds before I can even aim my xbow again. What If I miss? Which is at least half to 75% of the time. (because people have gotten so good at dodging contrary to what you believe.) I can't just scurry over to the bolt pick it up and reuse it like a thrower can. Dodging is largely ineffective vs throwers as they have zero reload time and they themselves can't exactly chart exactly where their throw is going to go in the first place they just throw and the projectile SEEMS to just warp to the nearest hit box if it passes through a foot radius of the hitbox.

(2)Throwing started out nerfed got buffed, nerfed again buffed again and here we are; archers have had it much much much worse than throwers but recently have received some nice buffs. (still too accurate imo) Arguably anything that isn't melee has had it pretty bad balance wise.

(3)I agree with you There are much larger concerns to the balancing of this game than the current state of throwing. (I still find it OP) but it should be low priority to fix...

(4)The thing people are complaining the MOST about in this thread is throwing lance's melee capabilities and Low tier throwing weapons that have seemingly infinite ammo. IF anything was going to be nerfed due to this thread (item balancers doubtfully even take these types of threads seriously) it would be those types of throwers not 12 PT naked Jarid wielders.

(5) Nothing ever gets accomplished because you will never find someone willing to buff classes outside of their own in this mod.