Turkish Elections 2015 (Happening today....inb4 civil war)

[ecorcheur_brokar]

What do you mean by their culture changing exactly? I don't see China attempting to import millions of Indians or Pakistanis. I don't see any country in asia facing immigration to the point that their dominant culture is affected in any way, really. You mean they're addopting technological innovations that are changing their culture? That's not exactly the same thing.

Religion and traditions are loosing grounds. The youth is less following the family rules. The way of life is changing, it's becoming more similar to the one of Europe.

Technological adoption leads without a doubt to cultural change and way more dramatically that immigrants.

In the countryside of Switzerland where I spent my youth, they were nobody from foreign descent beside me. There were cultural difference with the city where immigrants live but nothing dramatical, the swiss from foreign descent have almsot the same way of thinking than swiss from swiss descent. Immigrants are a drop of water in an ocean, they can not make big cultural change. They are nothing in comparison to the power of time on the culture.

It is juste like a dilution, if you put two colored drop of water in contact, the smallest will be incorporated and its color will change radically while the biggest one will only slightly change. (and in the case of human that small change will be for the best. The greater the variety, the better the life is. That goes for women and food for exemple)

Btw Europe is not attempting to import immigrants, it is facing an immigration and trying to deal with it.

[Tibe]

Religion and traditions are loosing grounds. The youth is less following the family rules. The way of life is changing, it's becoming more similar to the one of Europe.

You have it wrong. Religion and traditions are losing ground in North-America and Europe among the general population. But in the majority of the people from developing countries, religion and traditions is all they got. And that's why its such a discussionpoint. People from developed countries are unable to press their culture because they dont have any themselves. So immigrants in these countries, not really feeling any pressure will hold on to their own culture and than often press it on their next of kin. Thereby no real integration happens.

A really good example here is why Baltic countries cant afford having russian as a second state language, despite having massive russian minorities. These countries are so tiny. Theres no real point to study their language or culture, unless you really plan to live there. Its pointlessly hard. If you remove the need to learn it, you are basically giving your countries up to another culture and the minorities and the natives will eventually have a problem with eachother. And we all know what happens to countries that share a culture with Russia and have a mild conflict with their russian minorities, dont we Ukraine and Georgia?

[ecorcheur_brokar]

You have it wrong. Religion and traditions are losing ground in North-America and Europe among the general population. But in the majority of the people from developing countries, religion and traditions is all they got. And that's why its such a discussionpoint. People from developed countries are unable to press their culture because they dont have any themselves. So immigrants in these countries, not really feeling any pressure will hold on to their own culture and than often press it on their next of kin. Thereby no real integration happens.

A really good example here is why Baltic countries cant afford having russian as a second state language, despite having massive russian minorities. These countries are so tiny. Theres no real point to study their language or culture, unless you really plan to live there. Its pointlessly hard. If you remove the need to learn it, you are basically giving your countries up to another culture and the minorities and the natives will eventually have a problem with eachother. And we all know what happens to countries that share a culture with Russia and have a mild conflict with their russian minorities, dont we Ukraine and Georgia?

I was talking about Asia (the buddhist part) and there religion is losing ground. But it's true, it's only the case in the city and not in the countryside. And I totally disagree with the idea of the West having no culture, it has one in which religion is not taking a big part but it is a culture.
And I don't know enough about east europe and baltic to talk about it, but aren't those russian minorities living there since centuries?

[[ptx]]

And I don't know enough about east europe and baltic to talk about it, but aren't those russian minorities living there since centuries?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_the_Baltic_states

So, when might there be some sort of government in Turkey?

[LordBerenger]

The day Erdogan and Putin lose their positions the world will be a better place.

[Siiem]

The day Erdogan and Putin lose their positions the world will be a better place.

That is exactly what people (idiots) said about Hussein and Assad aswell. But it turned out, they were by far the lesser evil.

[Xant]

That is exactly what people (idiots) said about Hussein and Assad aswell. But it turned out, they were by far the lesser evil.

I don't know, pretty sure Saddam's gotten a lot more people killed than ISIS.

[Kafein]

Oberyn, why are we even concerned about culture? I care about the huge social and liberal progress that Western countries have made compared to basically everywhere else. That's valuable, and it's largely not culture. Is immigration putting that in danger? It depends on how backwards the immigrants are, which has again little to do with their culture. Native Westerners are reproducing like pandas, but it's doubtful that restricting immigration would improve the situation, apart from a reduction in demographic pressure. If immigrants learn the value of modern democracy and individual freedoms then there's really no problem. Do they? No, not quite as much as they should. The fact that not everybody has the same education on that is a new problem that remains mostly unanswered. Stricter immigration rules is one way to fix it. I would even add that being attached to these values is an identity in itself, a political one.

[Xant]

Oberyn, why are we even concerned about culture? I care about the huge social and liberal progress that Western countries have made compared to basically everywhere else. That's valuable, and it's largely not culture. Is immigration putting that in danger? It depends on how backwards the immigrants are, which has again little to do with their culture. Native Westerners are reproducing like pandas, but it's doubtful that restricting immigration would improve the situation, apart from a reduction in demographic pressure. If immigrants learn the value of modern democracy and individual freedoms then there's really no problem. Do they? No, not quite as much as they should. The fact that not everybody has the same education on that is a new problem that remains mostly unanswered. Stricter immigration rules is one way to fix it. I would even add that being attached to these values is an identity in itself, a political one.

The problem with immigration is that western countries are taking way too many of the ones that aren't coming over to work. If they work, they'll integrate to society and within two generations they'll be pretty much native. And because they work, they don't have to live in an immigrant-only ghetto that makes the problems ten times worse and creates vacuums of Middle East cultures for generations to come.

[Siiem]

I don't know, pretty sure Saddam's gotten a lot more people killed than ISIS.

Atleast Hussein left museums alone.

[Xant]

Atleast Hussein left museums alone.

At least*

[Siiem]

At least*

fuckyou.

[LordBerenger]

Wonder what would happen if Erdogan would legit go crazy and turn Turkey into a dictatorship run country with Erdogan as eternal leader/sultan/caliph

[the real god emperor]

Wonder what would happen if Erdogan would legit go crazy and turn Turkey into a dictatorship run country with Erdogan as eternal leader/sultan/caliph

Hundreds of riotings and protests which would be followed by innocents dying on streets and army stepping up which will cause the death of him?

[Daunt_Flockula]

That is exactly what people (idiots) said about Hussein and Assad aswell. But it turned out, they were by far the lesser evil.

There is some truth in that statement, but you apparently don't have a sound opinion as to how toxic a piece of trash Erdogan is for the entire mankind, not just for his own geographical region.