Turkish Elections 2015 (Happening today....inb4 civil war)

[JennaHaze]

Why do you care so much about turkey lol

[Daunt_Flockula]

Why do you care so much about turkey lol

Must be because if Turkey succumbs to the Islamic extremists, it will have terrible implications for the west and onwards. What Turkey will turn into is not only a Middle Eastern business in itself.

[Tibe]

Why do you care so much about turkey lol

A country with a large muslim influence that has a potential to become a decent modern democratic society that is allied with the West. Geographically it is in a good location aswell. Turkey is probably the main line of defence of keeping islamic nutjobs out of Europe. If Turkey finally succeeds in becoming a normal country not only will it show Westerners that islam and democracy is possible, but it will show other islamic nutjob countries it aswell, who claim modernizing their lands is impossible. A lot more is riding on Turkey than you can ever realize.

Imagine how fucked we would be if Turkey jihads against West. 

[Oberyn]

Don't forget that the area was the nucleus for one of the most powerful expansionist empires of the modern age, one that died merely a few decades before it's mostly european competitors. Even today the few modern universities worth a damn in the islamic world are largely concentrated in Turkey. Turkey is the most modernized majority islamic country, largely thanks to Ataturk's deliberate westernization. Of course this was back when the west still had something to offer. Strangely enough no one seems to be rushing to immitate modern western ideals that lead to below replacement population levels, mass immigration to make up the shortfall and the subsequent artificial attempt at forging cultural melting pots based on these new demographics. It's almost as if these things aren't incredibly desirable and awesome, but rather the death throes of dying civilizations.

[ecorcheur_brokar]

Don't forget that the area was the nucleus for one of the most powerful expansionist empires of the modern age, one that died merely a few decades before it's mostly european competitors. Even today the few modern universities worth a damn in the islamic world are largely concentrated in Turkey. Turkey is the most modernized majority islamic country, largely thanks to Ataturk's deliberate westernization. Of course this was back when the west still had something to offer. Strangely enough no one seems to be rushing to immitate modern western ideals that lead to below replacement population levels, mass immigration to make up the shortfall and the subsequent artificial attempt at forging cultural melting pots based on these new demographics. It's almost as if these things aren't incredibly desirable and awesome, but rather the death throes of dying civilizations.

The low demography is not unique to Europe, it is the "drawback" of every rich and developped country. Japan is facing the same problem. So even if you don't want to reach for the low demography, if you want to reach for economic wealth, the low demography will most likely come with it. Now either you just simply collapse like japan with no immigration (and eventually replace people with robots  ) or either you fullfill the gap with immigration.
p.s. I don't even think low demography is bad, but it does create some great imbalance when other countries still have booming demography.

Why do you care so much about turkey lol

Just like China or Russia were some years ago, Turkey has not met yet it's full potential. Turkey could be a great stabilizing force in the region if it choose to be so, instead of the agitating force it is currently.

[Oberyn]

Really? Japan is collapsing? I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the way things are going, Japanese culture as linked to an identifiable, unique ethnicity is going to be around after any european culture practicing mass immigration. There already is no such thing as a french ethnicity, it's been redefined to the annals of history. Apparently it was a mirage that never existed. An immigrant who doesn't give a shit about the country, does not even identify as french, has no personal, cultural or historical attachment to anything french beyond speaking the language (except for often a sense of resentment, baffingly encouraged, over the colonial exploitation of their home nations for decades/centuries, the only reason they speak the language in the first place), but is in fact incredibly patriotic and proud (just for another tribal identification) has as much right to the identity as anyone else. So yes, Japan as we understand it is going to be around long after France as we understand it.

[Xant]

Imagine how fucked we would be if Turkey jihads against West. 

Imagine how fucked Turkey would be, rather. Turkey's military is just a step above of what Iraq had before the Americans accidentally went through it while sleepwalking.

[Teeth]

Really? Japan is collapsing? I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the way things are going, Japanese culture as linked to an identifiable, unique ethnicity is going to be around after any european culture practicing mass immigration. There already is no such thing as a french ethnicity, it's been redefined to the annals of history. Apparently it was a mirage that never existed. An immigrant who doesn't give a shit about the country, does not even identify as french, has no personal, cultural or historical attachment to anything french beyond speaking the language (except for often a sense of resentment, baffingly encouraged, over the colonial exploitation of their home nations for decades/centuries, the only reason they speak the language in the first place), but is in fact incredibly patriotic and proud (just for another tribal identification) has as much right to the identity as anyone else. So yes, Japan as we understand it is going to be around long after France as we understand it.

Japan's population is collapsing more than nearly any EU country, so that unique culture is going to see less and less people included in it. At least that is factual information, unlike your projections. Disappearance of national identity does not really seem that much of a problem to me. Besides, so far I have not seen significant economic growth without a reduction in fertility rates, so is it really western ideals that lead to this situation?

[ecorcheur_brokar]

Really? Japan is collapsing? I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the way things are going, Japanese culture as linked to an identifiable, unique ethnicity is going to be around after any european culture practicing mass immigration. There already is no such thing as a french ethnicity, it's been redefined to the annals of history. Apparently it was a mirage that never existed. An immigrant who doesn't give a shit about the country, does not even identify as french, has no personal, cultural or historical attachment to anything french beyond speaking the language (except for often a sense of resentment, baffingly encouraged, over the colonial exploitation of their home nations for decades/centuries, the only reason they speak the language in the first place), but is in fact incredibly patriotic and proud (just for another tribal identification) has as much right to the identity as anyone else. So yes, Japan as we understand it is going to be around long after France as we understand it.

33% of the population above 60 years old, is that what you would call a dynamic population? Maybe collapsing was too strong word, but there's a decline for sure. visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Ofc it's great they kept their culture, but if there's nobody to enjoy it and to make it live where's the point. A little immigration wouldn't hurt.

Plus culture is not somthing put into formol (otherwise it would be called history), it is a lively and evolving thing. The culture of a country at a time is the culture that is in this country at that time. But we're going out of the subject... Turkey has enough ethnic and cultural tension to keep all of them alive. 

[Tibe]

33% of the population above 60 years old, is that what you would call a dynamic population? Maybe collapsing was too strong word, but there's a decline for sure. visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Ofc it's great they kept their culture, but if there's nobody to enjoy it and to make it live where's the point. A little immigration wouldn't hurt.

You were talking about collapsing, not decline. Cause decline is normal. Its absolutely everywhere. Compared to other places Japans decline is even barely worth mentioning.

... Turkey has enough ethnic and cultural tension to keep all of them alive. 

or get them all killed.

[cmp]

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

That projection is wrong, it doesn't take in account WW3 and the great drought of 2092.

[the real god emperor]

Imagine how fucked Turkey would be, rather. Turkey's military is just a step above of what Iraq had before the Americans accidentally went through it while sleepwalking.

com at us bruh

[Tibe]

Imagine how fucked Turkey would be, rather. Turkey's military is just a step above of what Iraq had before the Americans accidentally went through it while sleepwalking.

Are they really that bad? Or is US just so stronk it can steamroll over everybody?

[Xant]

Are they really that bad? Or is US just so stronk it can steamroll over everybody?

They're not bad by ME standards, but they're not a threat to Europe.

[Oberyn]

Japan's population is collapsing more than nearly any EU country, so that unique culture is going to see less and less people included in it. At least that is factual information, unlike your projections. Disappearance of national identity does not really seem that much of a problem to me. Besides, so far I have not seen significant economic growth without a reduction in fertility rates, so is it really western ideals that lead to this situation?

Yes, the classic "that's a lot of bullshit" followed immediately by "it's not a problem anyways". "Pfa, of course there's not a population replacement going on in western countries! And anyways, I see no problem with it". No problem with what, the very thing you just denied the obvious existence of? I know you don't see it as a problem, there's only a few countries on the entire planet where abject complacency about the dissapearance of their tribal identity is encouraged and enforced, and they're all western. And I can't believe you're retarded enough to think the absence of nationality will mean the absence of ethnicity and tribalism. In the vaccuum of tribal identity to truly belong to something else will step in, whether it is race, religion, ethnicity, other nationalities, etc..Humans just work that way, there's tens of thousands of years of proof.
But but culture is a shifting mosaic, this is completely normal! We should be grateful to have our culture enriched by so many different influences! Tribalism is bad! Respect other's tribalism! Mass immigration is legitimate because colonialism, and imperialism! It's actually good for the economy to import loads of low skilled poor educated workers who end up with 50% unemployement, creating a resentful underclass! We just need to be more guilty and submissive for them to truly flower, it's only because we're too racist! There's an endless litany of justifications. We're living through a protracted decline and can't even recognize it, have to dress it up in high minded bullshit.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/erdogan-urges-turks-not-to-assimilate-you-are-part-of-germany-but-also-part-of-our-great-turkey-a-748070.html