Author Topic: 'O say can you see by the dawn's early light"  (Read 2667 times)

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Offline Kafein

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Re: 'O say can you see by the dawn's early light"
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2015, 11:45:50 am »
+1
is there even fast food for breakfast?

Cereals are pretty much breakfast fast food. Even the "healthy" ones.

As for why so few vegetables, it's mostly about the effort and knowledge it takes to properly cook them.

Offline Teeth

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Re: 'O say can you see by the dawn's early light"
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2015, 12:23:05 pm »
0
And  :?:
You said that unless you eat tons of non-vegetable carbs, you are fucked if you skip meat. I thought you meant that you need to compensate for missing out on the carbs in meat, but I might have misunderstood. If you are talking about compensating for missing out on overall energy content of meat, it is still a moot point. Meat isn't that calorie/cost efficient even in the US, unless you have some numbers to demonstrate your point. You can easily compensate for calories and even protein in a way that is pretty low cost and reasonably healthy. It just requires some basic sensible shopping and cooking. Perhaps if you are going for super healthy, fried chicken might be able to compete, but that is not a fair comparison because fried chicken is at the exact opposite end of the healthy scale.

That said, obese people just eat too much, regardless of whether its healthy. Getting fat is pretty much just energy expenditure versus energy input, whether you eat 20 kg of broccoli a day or 500 grams of fried chicken, too much calories is too much calories.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 12:27:04 pm by Teeth »

Offline POOPHAMMER

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Re: 'O say can you see by the dawn's early light"
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2015, 12:27:30 pm »
+3
Well, I admit, I have no clue about MURRICAN prices on vegetables like carrots, potatoes, onions of different kinds and stuff.
So, yea, maybe it is the other way around than it is in Germany. But here, you can easily prepare a proper soup with some animal fat in it for like 5€ which ends up being a good lunch for 3 days at least. If you don't wanna eat it for 3 days, just prepare it and freeze potions of it for the next week or something.

It's actually more of a social issue in Germany that low-income families tend to eat fast food over self-prepared food. Most of the times it's not a time issue... Different story.

Besides, I am not talking about some silly sporty health food. Normal rice is good enoug, normal pasta does the job, so does normal yogurt...

In America you can only be fit and healthy if you have a 6 figure income. 5 figures or less you are doomed with your gut hanging over your junk for the rest of your pathetic impoverish life.
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: 'O say can you see by the dawn's early light"
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2015, 04:57:59 pm »
+3
People use the same 'fast food is cheap, cooking is expensive' bull in this country. Similarly it is a social issue though. I sure as heck have very little money to spare each month but I can be be bothered to manage my food shop and cook every evening. Heck I even make my own bread for my sandwiches because it's cheaper. Most people are just too lazy.

Offline Molly

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Re: 'O say can you see by the dawn's early light"
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2015, 05:05:47 pm »
0
People use the same 'fast food is cheap, cooking is expensive' bull in this country. Similarly it is a social issue though. I sure as heck have very little money to spare each month but I can be be bothered to manage my food shop and cook every evening. Heck I even make my own bread for my sandwiches because it's cheaper. Most people are just too lazy.
I don't do my own bread, we do have good bakeries all over the place.
Concious shopping goes a long way tho. Having fun to cook helps a lot and besides social status, I am pretty sure it's an educational thing too. Instead of watching another boulevard news show or another reality tv soap, watching a documentation on food or even a cooking show drives you away from fast food pretty easy.
I do like my burger once in a while, average is probably once a month, but then I go the full way with 2 big burgers, fries, coke... :D It's good. But it's like with everything really, when consumed in moderation, nothing is "unhealthy".
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Offline Armpit_Sweat

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Re: 'O say can you see by the dawn's early light"
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2015, 05:19:28 pm »
0
Never cooked anything beyond pasta+ketchup or some microwave dinners. Ever. No regrets.
 
Eating whatever my body craves. Do drugs and drink regularly. Do cardio almost every day. Having lots of energy, no health issues what so ever. And I am older than 99% of you :)
 
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Offline Kalam

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Re: 'O say can you see by the dawn's early light"
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2015, 05:34:52 pm »
0
Agreeing with Berenger is like agreeing with Ted Cruz, but here I am, agreeing with Berenger.

I am working class. We spend about $700 on food per month for two people. This is choice, half of it is in luxury foods I don't need.

Yet, consider the price of a bunch of fresh Kale (keep in mind that if you want to fill yourself in a healthy manner, one bunch of kale is enough for two days if that's your primary vegetable) or Spinach and how much it costs: for the same price you can get yourself a value meal burger and small fries.

Look at that choice. On one side, you have a product that is designed to appeal. Fat, salt, and sugar in the right ratio- a ratio that tricks your body into thinking it didn't get as many calories as it actually did. On the other side you have a bitter green that will not satisfy you. Not by itself. A green that you will need to take time out of your day to properly prepare for consumption. You could eat it raw. I don't usually (eh, maybe baby spinach is fine raw, but again, I was raised with a very different palate) find this enjoyable, and I sincerely doubt your average entry-level unskilled worker who makes $12k a year does, either.

However, I have been a student and probably will be one again shortly, so concerning myself with the price of food is something that was once routine.

Are rice and beans better nutritionally, than a value menu burger and fries? Sure, but that doesn't mean it's adequate. Which is why you look for canned vegetables, which become a little bit more affordable that fresh vegetables. Cheap eggs are great value, too. A standard, decent cheap meal is egg whites or white fish with beans and vegetables. You can go cheaper and less balanced with white rice and lentils or black-eyed peas.

So, yes, you can spend less money and get something more healthy than McDonald's, but what about frozen chicken nuggets and fries from Walmart? Or those little pocket pizza things? THEN you're spending even less for shitty food.

Either way, healthy food takes time and knowledge to prepare. Skill to make it taste decent. Instead of taking this time (at least half an hour) out of your day to prepare decent food that is still relatively bland, where you spent 12 hrs working at some shit job with some idiot bosses and similarly ignorant coworkers talking about nothing but what Niki Minaj's ass looks like this month, you could opt for a very convenient choice (active prep time for frozen nuggets? probably one minute) that has a superior ratio of fat, salt, and sugar.

This morning I could have taken the time brew my own coffee. In this case, it is actually superior in taste and mouthfeel to any over-the-counter franchise variant. Instead, I bought some shitty, saccharine iced coffee because I didn't want to take the time to clean out my french press, grind some beans, pull ice out of the silicon mold, and pay attention to the timer on my phone.

Imagine how much harder it is for someone who is not as (I am a better cook than most professional cooks; I imagine it would be hard to pick up a skill like that in a household that could not afford culinary variety) privileged as I am, or has not had as much exposure to deliberately chosen inconvenience, especially when the home made variant doesn't release as much dopamine as the commercially available choice.

I made this choice for convenience, and it is in the name of this fell god that we sacrifice ourselves. Every. Day.


God Bless America.

Edit: Sweat, I go to work with this guy who's fairly cut, and does cardio about once a week. He exists on a diet of redbull, candy, bacon, and dominos pizza. Still outsprints and outlifts the rest of us. Still outruns us in anything less than a 3 miler. On the other hand, there's a guy who eats about 1500 calories a day and works out twice a day. Still fat looking, and gets tired after about two and a half miles.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 05:38:22 pm by Kalam »

Offline Xant

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Re: 'O say can you see by the dawn's early light"
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2015, 05:50:06 pm »
0
Yeah, it's not just about the prep time (which is a considerable factor: if I have 3-4 hours of free time after work, I don't usually want to spend 45 of it cooking) but about "rewarding yourself." A tasty hamburger meal can be a nice motivator after a crappy day of work. At least you got something to look forward to, as opposed to eating healthy food that you don't like.

Either way, as long as you're active it's not a problem. If you eat that fast food meal and spend the time you'd have spent cooking working out you'll be fine.

I find it hard to believe the works-out-twice-a-day guy actually eats 1500 calories. Either he's lying about what he eats or (and, more likely) his "work out" is shit or a lie.
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Offline Armpit_Sweat

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Re: 'O say can you see by the dawn's early light"
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2015, 06:15:23 pm »
0
Edit: Sweat, I go to work with this guy who's fairly cut, and does cardio about once a week. He exists on a diet of redbull, candy, bacon, and dominos pizza. Still outsprints and outlifts the rest of us. Still outruns us in anything less than a 3 miler. On the other hand, there's a guy who eats about 1500 calories a day and works out twice a day. Still fat looking, and gets tired after about two and a half miles.

Either way, as long as you're active it's not a problem. If you eat that fast food meal and spend the time you'd have spent cooking working out you'll be fine.

That's pretty much my point. I eat very random stuff - now comes the fruit season, so i will be often living off cherries, watermelons and canned tuna. I almost never eat bread, potatoes, etc. I love shrimp, i love meat, i love almost all milk products. Just literally going after my gut-feeling when i am buying food. No, it's not cheap in Denmark. Doubt it costs any more in US. And I work for living. Dumb, physically enduring job. 
BUT! I push myself every evening to run, jump rope, pushups, pullups, and then i get fucking stoned as shit, go out drinking, whatever! 
Pretty sure that the only reason i can physically endure this lifestyle is because of almost daily cardio + genetics. I seriously believe that if your parents are shapeless sickly slobs - there is little remedy... Sad, but that how it is unfortunately... :(
 
And cooking is just not for everyone. If you like it - you are a lucky man! For me it is an extremely boring and unsatisfying chore...
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Offline Teeth

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Re: 'O say can you see by the dawn's early light"
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2015, 06:36:55 pm »
0
Hah, yeah, 1500 calories and working out twice a day means a good dose of bullshit somewhere. I don't know how tiny the guy is, but 1500 calories is about the base a short male needs to just keep his organs functioning regardless of any activity.

A tasty hamburger meal can be a nice motivator after a crappy day of work. At least you got something to look forward to, as opposed to eating healthy food that you don't like.

Either way, as long as you're active it's not a problem. If you eat that fast food meal and spend the time you'd have spent cooking working out you'll be fine.
Healthy food should not have to taste bad, mine definitely does not. Also, vitamins, minerals, amino acids and all that jazz are not actually useless. Always kinda awful to see the skin of students deteriorate that just moved out of mommy's house and live of pizza and kebab.

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I just can't really believe that cooking a meal consisting of some meat, a carb source and 200 grams of vegetables per person would be that much more expensive than buying a burger or eating half a box of fried chicken nuggets. I estimate that I spend about 150-180 euros on food for myself, with evening meals nearly always being home-cooked and healthy and costing like 3 euros on average. Meat is usually the most expensive part of dinner here. Vegetables are pretty cheap if you figure out what is in season and respect that frozen or canned vegetables are actually pretty healthy. Carb sources like rice, pasta or potatoes are cheap as hell, especially if you buy it in bulk. 

Of course cooking is a chore. It is like washing your clothes or wiping your butt. You could not do all these things, but it adversely affects your well-being. If you have to cook for just yourself, get a freezer or something. I hate cooking a meal just for myself, so if I have to, I cook for 3-5 persons anyway and eat the same meal a few more times. That way your effective cooking time becomes like 10 minutes per meal.

Offline Kalam

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Re: 'O say can you see by the dawn's early light"
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2015, 08:48:44 pm »
0
Lying or miscalculation is probable, but I do spend an average of 12 hours a weekday with these people. No idea what they eat on weekends, and I'm certain they never include alcohol intake in their calculations. There's also the significant question of age. The first guy is 20. The second is in his mid-thirties.

In addition, our workouts are not optimized for gains of any sort. They are optimized for misery and for the purposes of urinating contests.

Batch cooking and freezing is what I used to do during the week when I was single. It's a little harder to do with the amounts required for two or three people, but probably still the best way for someone who wants decent homemade stuff but doesn't want to spend every day cooking. It's easier to avoid the temptation of shitty food when you have decent food a microwave session away. The lack of fresh elements does take away from the taste, but for most people this probably isn't an issue. There are some foods that benefit from slow cooking or freezing, so there's always those.

Offline SirCymro_Crusader

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Re: 'O say can you see by the dawn's early light"
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2015, 10:15:12 pm »
0
.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2023, 08:05:10 pm by SirCymro_Crusader »

Offline Doom_Carrot

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Re: 'O say can you see by the dawn's early light"
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2015, 02:57:41 am »
0
or the junkfood to get fat and worthless -.-

But I can get 10 butterfingers for like 5 dollars.... But the health bars cost $1:50 each  :shock:
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Offline Turkhammer

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Re: 'O say can you see by the dawn's early light"
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2015, 04:47:50 pm »
0
According to this article, the USA is 5th in childhood obesity, but Greece is number one.  Joke's on you Panos.

http://www.takepart.com/photos/these-10-countries-lead-world-childhood-obesity-nope-us-isnt-no-1/

Offline Overdriven

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Re: 'O say can you see by the dawn's early light"
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2015, 04:58:52 pm »
+1
We spend around £60 a week on our shop for 2 of us and that's including stuff like soap and shampoo ect so not all food. All includes fresh veg, fruit and meat from our butcher as well as some 'luxury items'. I know for a fact from living on my own for a year before I was married that buying cheap and instant meals costs far more than that as I used to spend more on myself than we do for 2 people with fresh ingredients.

I do the vast majority of the cooking as my wife can't really cook and each meal only takes around 30mins to cook. All ingredients from our local butcher and grocer. 30 mins out of a day for cooking is bugger all so I really do think anyone who can't be arsed to do that is lazy as fuck. And some of those are damn tasty meals like fajitas, spag bog, chilli, shawarma, Indian and whatever else. The only meals I make that takes significantly longer are roasts on the weekend and pizza (wait 1h 1/2 for the bread machine to do the dough).

I make my lunch every morning as well but that consists of 10 minutes to make a sandwich with some crisps chucked in my bag. I always skip breakfast which is probably bad but I'm not usually hungry in the morning.

I also cycle a 9 mile round trip every day to work so I like to think it's quite a healthy lifestyle.

The foodshop only takes about 1 hour to do as well.

Part of it is just routine. Once you get used to cooking a solid few meals and you get into the swing of it cooking each night really doesn't take long. I usually watch something on my kindle at the same time as well so far from boring.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 05:20:07 pm by Overdriven »